59 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

In their current implementation, LRMs with Artemis can almost guarantee a 1-shot on any non-ECM light mech.

It's becoming very frustrating being just hammered by Artemis LRMs, currently. On a Jenner, I've been effectively 1-shot in many games since the patch,by Artemis-LRMs, with no time or possibility of evasion/escape.

On the other side, I was able to 1-shot a commando, with twin Artemis LRM 15's, + tag, as he was running just slightly off straight towards me, on my Treb-5N. Needless to say, he was a tad annoyed with that.

[Asmosis]

learn to use cover. as a light you should have time from the "missile alert" warning to get behind an object large enough to block lrms from pretty much any location on any map other than alpine.

If your relying on simply outrunning them, you need to change tactics

Edited by Asmosis, 07 March 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[senaiboy]

Light mechs should never leave cover. Always stay just before the crest of a hill, in between buildings, etc. Playing as LRM boats and scout mechs, getting one shot by LRMs are always the light mech's mistake.

Also, most light mechs can outmaneouvre LRMs that were shot in close range.

[Kunae]

You guys have no clue what you're talking about.

[Cest7]

I got one shotted by an LRM barrage in my commando.

I had no one to blame but myself for this death as I left cover under my own accord.

[Frank the Tank]

Kunae, on 07 March 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

You guys have no clue what you're talking about.

No, they just aren't responding to your post. Yes, you can avoid LRMs, but its also true they are doing way too much damage now that the flight path has been adjusted.

The real issue is the LRMs got massive damage increases to off set the fact that they weren't very accurate. Now that their flight paths have been corrected LRMs need to have their damage scaled back a bit.

You guys are all right. LRMs are a little too powerful now, and scouts can usually avoid them. There's no reason to get at each other's throats.

[Team Leader]

Ive noticed lately that even at max speed, with jjs, and AMS, an Artemis barrage will spell "game over" in broken spider bits. Not sure what can be done about it. Working as intended, or overpowered? Idk.

[sycocys]

I've been very nearly 1 shot cored by a single salvo in a cat several times. Usually by lrms hitting my back center as I face either straight on or slight angled to where I should take most of the damage in my arm mounts/front side torsos.

[Peiper]

I've been one shotted, running between buildings at 152.7 kph in my jenner. 2 torsos, one arm gone, plus some other damage. I know it was done by a 4xLRM15 stalker. I knew the missles were incoming from long range, and I was dodging and weaving. I didn't know where they were coming from, only knew from the warning, so I couldn't hide behind a building, I just kept weaving between them. Standing still or running is no difference. I love my Jenner, but I'm playing a 3L when I go light now ONLY because of the ECM. (I can't stand ravens, but I feel I have no choice.) I still get pasted sometimes in my Raven, but I have a much better chance at evasion.

The only other mech I take is my Atlas RS now, because it's the only thing that can weather a couple salvos long enough to get into cover. My mediums and heavies just don't stand a chance in this environment unless I'm humping the leg of a D-DC.

In tabletop, you randomly roll to see how many missles hit, no matter what the range. Now, it seems like every missle is hitting, and without directly aiming at the target either. I understand that they're trying to balance things, but LRM's worked well before ECM broke the game. Now, it's hard to get an LRM lock, so they have to make the missle volleys really devestating when they do hit. And WHY? Because ECM breaks lock, not because LRMs suck. Now LRMs are OP because ECM is broken, and ECM is broken because of streakapults. They keep band-aiding problems instead of fixing them to begin with. They keep promising that over time there will be a million future counters to the million of future broken things in the game, but the game the Devs are playing is not the game we are. They can promise (and in-house playtest) all they want, but they aren't the ones suffering from the CURRENT game. (And yeah, I know they do play because some of my friends say they spot one out there once in a blue moon.)

PGI seems to be putting resources into things the community doesn't want or doesn't care so much about, rather than bringing out what we want, or more of what we want. We keep begging for new maps, lobbies, game modes, fixes for broken builds/equipment, sandboxes, community warfare and game balancing stuff. Instead, they're breaking what isn't broken then trying to fix it with counters.

This game is so much fun, and has so much potential. Stop breaking the stuff that isn't broken, and fix what is, and we'll ALL BE HAPPY.

[Asmosis]

I read your post, and responded to it.

It's possible they overdid it with atremis (like the lolfirst implementation) so will see how it goes.

having said that, it only took me one volley to get a light mech into red/orange structure on at least half its body prior to this patch with tag + atremis + 3xlrm20 on my stalker so it wouldnt take much of an improvement to get into 1-shot territory. could already do that on commando's with a lucky hit (they stop/slow down heavily or something).

I also one-shot any light mech/cicada on my A1 with atremis srms, but need to wait for HSR to do that reliably.

Edited by Asmosis, 07 March 2013 - 09:03 PM.

[Rashkae]

I've been one-shotted in a *stalker* by a 4xLRM15 salvo. Go figure.

[Inveramsay]

outrunning artemis LRMs now more often mean that I don't get any damage at all as they are so close together. On the other hand where I to get caught in a barrage of more than a single LRM10 I would be out in my Jenner. Artemis should provide an upgrade but it is possibly slightly over the top as other have written.

[Jericho917]

How many direct hits from a full barrage of LRMs should it take to kill a light? 20 missiles traveling 200m/s in a tight group (because of artemis) mostly striking R/L and Center torso (due to tag) is about 28 damage Most going to center. your problem sounds like it is with boating of LRMs, because 28 damage wouldn't kill most lights I don't think.

[Inveramsay]

Jericho917, on 08 March 2013 - 12:16 AM, said:

How many direct hits from a full barrage of LRMs should it take to kill a light? 20 missiles traveling 200m/s in a tight group (because of artemis) mostly striking R/L and Center torso (due to tag) is about 28 damage Most going to center. your problem sounds like it is with boating of LRMs, because 28 damage wouldn't kill most lights I don't think.

This is true but most LRM boats now carry more than 20 LRMs and lights are very rarely at full health when you get shot at.

[John MatriX82]

Lrm+Artemis spread is now too tight. Either increase the spread or reduce the overall damage. Lightmechs aren't the only ones that can be one shotted, even mediums and heavies can get cored in 1 volley and this is even easier.. at least in a light you've got the speed to duck into cover, with other mechs you can't. ECM has become less effective (and this isn't a bad thing of course) and AMS is nearly useless.

Edited by John MatriX82, 08 March 2013 - 01:54 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

Take a 4 man make sure everyone has AMS. Stay together. use cover. Do not rush LRM boats across an open field!

Im seeing lights dodge LRMS in the open as well.

Lights just become a lot more fragile due to netcode improvements in general .LRMS "maybe" need damage scaled back to 1.6...but imho the dynamic of LRM/ECM/AMS/Speed is not bad right now. potentially curbing LRM turn rates/agility more may be helpful rather than lowering damage.

[Lyrik]

If you get oneshotted by LRM's in a 152kmph Jenner than you are doing it wrong o.O It can happen if you mess up or don't pay attention or are really unlucky but often???

Mine goes only 150 and I managed to only get killed once by an LRM5 :-P. Yeah the fight zone was a mess, red torso and ignoring the message about incoming fire. My fault.

And hit by 4xLRM15 should kill a Jenner! That are 108 Damage to a light mech with a broad center torso.

Edited by Lyrik, 08 March 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[The Mech behind you]

really? At the moment I enjoy the lights the most because I almost never get hit by LRMs. It's easy to dodge them in lights while it feels like you get hit by a tactical nuke in anything bigger as soon as you leave cover

Edited by Norman Kosh, 08 March 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Mad Elf]

I love this "lights should stay in cover to avoid LRMs" vs. "lights should use TAG to counter ECM for friendly LRMs" contradiction...

That said, damage should probably be scaled back a bit.

[Liquidx]

I think what may be lost on people is the fact that LRM, SRM, and SSRM damage was buffed from the outset. No other weapon has been adjusted this much strictly from a damage dealing perspective. Table top damage values which most other weapons still adhere closely to (within a point or 2), for LRM's has been almost doubled from 1 damage per missile to 1.8. SRM and SSRM damage jumped from 2 per missile to 2.5. I personally think this is the real culprit here, not artemis, tag, or boating. Certainly the spread seems pretty tight with artemis, but the missiles still scatter damage all across the target (ie: it's not constrained to a single location).

LRM boats are strong when they have a decent spotter, or are otherwise able to maintain a target lock (open terrain), and really, 4 LRM 15s on a stalker/awesome with a lock are going to be devastating no matter how you paint it - but I also wonder how many of you run with AMS on your mechs. It seems very rare to me to see a stream of ams bullets shooting at a flood of missiles nowdays - so I don't think much of the population bothers with them anymore since it is pretty easy to break lock with cover since we get the "incoming missile" warning pretty early after they've been fired.

Perhaps a partial solution to this would be to add value to the AMS system. What if we didn't have the "incoming missile" alert unless we equipped AMS? This way, AMS becomes much more attractive, and adds a huge amount of value to you and your team. If even half the team ran with AMS equipped, I'd bet those LRM volleys wouldn't be all that scary. Hell, if the majority of the team (say 6/8) carry AMS, and are within a couple hundred meters of each other, I'd say a good portion of those LRM waves would get shot down.

Scale the damage back to maybe 1.2-1.4 dmg per LRM, 2.2-2.3 damage per S/SRM, and add value to the AMS system.
IE:
no ams
-no warning, and the player gets some extra tonnage to work with, trusting his awareness and ability.

with ams
- you get the warning of incoming missiles, and a means to shoot some of them down - as well as use your awareness to move to cover before you get hammered by 300 missiles..

Do the same thing with BAP as well for the "targeted warning" so the player has to make that interesting choice between an early warning system, and a couple extra tons to work with.