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I'm Starting To Join In With Those Having Doubts Of The Future..


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#81 3rdworld

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 09:59 AM

View PostMaddMaxx, on 19 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:


Priceless! Absolutely priceless. May have to Sig that.... lol :)


Sig that u have no idea what you are talking bout?

You realize if the K/D of those mechs is near 1, you are talking about a 15% variation on the top 10 mechs alone.

And the entire point of balance isn't to see how close the best few are, but how different the bottom mechs are to the top.

He probably states pure K/D numbers not taking firepower, loadout, ELO, LAG, etc into consideration.

Among the numerous other logical problems with his "herp derp the best are really close to each other" must be balanced argument.

So ya, his rebuttal is as laughable as the balance in this game.

#82 MaddMaxx

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

View Post3rdworld, on 19 March 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:


That only tells you how the average player does in that mech.

I bet if you adjust that K/D figure he gave for ELO the difference is much more severe.


And we could also bet that if we turned a Circle in to a Square, that some would "argue" that is it still a Circle that just looks like a Square. The difference, of course, is that they would be much more severe. LOL :)

#83 KingCobra

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:00 AM

View PostReceptivex, on 19 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

What I find the most funny about this whole thread is when a admin/dev actually replied to this thread he ignored every valid issue and replied saying the top 10 varients are within 15 k/d to each other. So that just points out they know that they have tons of mechs but only 10 are good. Also it assumes they dont really have anything else to say about all the other issues.


I have seen 2-4 staff on this thread already maybe baby they have seen the light? Its hard to take a IP as big as MechWarrior was a dumb it down to a kids fps with no content and no direct knowledge of what everyone wanted.--->BLINGGGGG-->> Posted Image

#84 KingCobra

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:01 AM

View PostReceptivex, on 19 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

What I find the most funny about this whole thread is when a admin/dev actually replied to this thread he ignored every valid issue and replied saying the top 10 varients are within 15 k/d to each other. So that just points out they know that they have tons of mechs but only 10 are good. Also it assumes they dont really have anything else to say about all the other issues.


I have seen 2-4 staff on this thread already maybe baby they have seen the light? Its hard to take a IP as big as MechWarrior was (A) and dumb it down to a kids fps with no content and no direct knowledge of what everyone wanted.--->BLINGGGGG-->> Posted Image

Edited by KingCobra, 19 March 2013 - 10:15 AM.


#85 El Bandito

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:03 AM

View PostRobottiimu2000, on 19 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

-Long *** text-


Relax mate. Enjoy what you have now and don't worry about the future. The world is ending soon. All the signs are there...or so the Christians say.

#86 MaddMaxx

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:09 AM

View PostReceptivex, on 19 March 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

What I find the most funny about this whole thread is when a admin/dev actually replied to this thread he ignored every valid issue and replied saying the top 10 varients are within 15 k/d to each other. So that just points out they know that they have tons of mechs but only 10 are good. Also it assumes they dont really have anything else to say about all the other issues.


I gotta roll the dice here before I have an aneurism ffs. But before I do, do you good sir even know in what context Garth posted that statement? I am guessing not, as you left out the "key piece". The fk'ing decimal point...

Damn. Snake eyes. I'm out. :)

Edited by MaddMaxx, 19 March 2013 - 10:10 AM.


#87 Jetfire

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:19 AM

I have played "Aeroplane game" as well. While I agree it does a lot of things better than MWO, it also does a lot of things much worse. They could both learn a lot from each other. All in all I think PGI is shorter on staff, but much more committed to quality and balance. "Aeroplane game" is big on content, but I think it is running a rather light engine comparatively, despite still looking good. It also is rather imbalanced with worse match making by far. The "starter" planes take a lot longer to get to competitive levels and are never competitive until you are up several tiers of planes. The tiering makes the grind far more important and unbalanced.

Personally MWO is getting my money now, "Future Space Sim" got a lot of money and "Aeroplane Game" might get money in the future.

#88 3rdworld

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:20 AM

View PostMaddMaxx, on 19 March 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:


I gotta roll the dice here before I have an aneurism ffs. But before I do, do you good sir even know in what context Garth posted that statement? I am guessing not, as you left out the "key piece". The fk'ing decimal point...

Damn. Snake eyes. I'm out. :lol:


Ya, I said the balance was bad.

His "rebuttal" does nothing to refute that to anyone other than Gold Colored Glasses.

#89 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:24 AM

Kinda funny, I'm going the opposite. The first few months after open beta launched, it seriously was looking like the devs were going to cave in to the mouth breather crowd and totally dumb mwo down and make it into GenericCasualTwitchShooter: Online. Then the last 2-3 patches have been mostly pure win (minus a few glaring bugs,like oh.... Missiles?).

Simple tact is, I don't compare titles, and I certainly don't want mwo dumbed down for casuals. There are already plenty of titles catering to that crowd, it would be nice to be allowed a couple of titles for Mechwarrior diehards. And adding the training grounds finally addressed the worst issue, which was the learning curve.

Please keep in mind that PGI is a small developer backed by a small publisher trying to handle something that might be a little more than they expected. The "World" games have a lot more money, and have had a lot more time to develop. Both are needed, but money is what makes things happen.
Also keep in mind that there will he an entirely new set of factions introduced in the near future, with the Clans. And that the only way that works is that the Devs have to be parallel programming, because they cannot possibly introduce the Clans one mech per month. I would lay money on the initial 16 arriving together.

#90 Bergwolf

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:29 AM

Interesting topic, in some ways mirrowing my own expiriences. I have been a mechgame player for over 20 years, starting with tabletop and as such not so easily driven away here. I also think balancing issues are mostly subjective and depend a lot on skill and resulting attitude. Balancing is a constant work in progress in a game, it never rerally stops, especially in games that offer such a variety of weapons and chassis. World of Tanks, War Thunder and others are no different here. Even if balancing is perfect, it only needs one player who is above average in handling a certain weapon and the others will cry "balancing!". You can't ever win in such debates as a developer.

I also do not think that Mechwarrior online, after not even a year after release and still in Beta is bound to be on the level of mentioned games. World of tanks only had a couple of maps and tanks as well when it was released, now, after more then 3 years, it is a monster. Gaijin, the makers of World of Thunder, already have Birds of Prey in their portfolio, which in return borrowed heavily on the IL2 series, an iconic WW2 sim more then 10 years old by now. These guys could concentrate on the polish, the core already being there.

However, I too am worried about the slow progress, especially in regards to content and game modes. One of the easiest things to do in a game is maps. The modelling part, at least. If you have an expirienced map builder with a feeling for the game, it's focus and requirements, it is possible to churn out maps in quite a short time. Espeically if you have such few and basic static objects present on the maps like here. That we only ever get a new map every month or two is what makes me worry the most about the manpower actually at their disposal for content creation. That and the complete lack of a roadmap in regards to the implementation of community warfare, not to talk about it's inclusion into the game by now to begin with. It actually is the core of the "game", with MwO as it currently is not much more then a fun tech demo. They got the long term priorities wrong here.

MwO has one big advantage over World of Tanks and War Thunder, though. In both those games it takes ages. Way too long if you are not a hardcore gamer who is willing to exchange his girl friend with his PC. You "must" spend money to progress. And at one point it always starts to feel like a ripp off. MWO is much more player friendly, the mechs much better balanced towards each other. (in other games, higher tier -> better. Here everything has a role and I would not know from the beginning if to bet my money on a Raven or an Atlas in a 1:1). That is why I actually spend some money here, while I haven't in the others. I "wanted" to spend here. I felt forced in the others. Not a good basis for a long term relationship.

PGI can build on this, they got a lot of things right, but there really needs to be more progress. The game as it is is becoming boring.

Edited by Bergwolf, 19 March 2013 - 10:32 AM.


#91 ownka

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:40 AM

Has PGI even hired any additional staff recently? The numbers I've seen for founders package sales, and the amount of camouflage/hero mechs seems to indicate that this game has made as much profit as anyone could really expect, but every time I hear about the number of actual game developers it seems like this number hasn't increased since closed beta. Honestly, if we don't have a big chunk of content with the clan invasion in the next few months, I think this game is dead. The rate of content release should gradually speed up as you get more people into the game, not slow down like I feel it has. I'll hold out for a little while longer, and I think the majority of people will to, but if something doesn't change this game will die.

#92 KingCobra

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

View Postownka, on 19 March 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

Has PGI even hired any additional staff recently? The numbers I've seen for founders package sales, and the amount of camouflage/hero mechs seems to indicate that this game has made as much profit as anyone could really expect, but every time I hear about the number of actual game developers it seems like this number hasn't increased since closed beta. Honestly, if we don't have a big chunk of content with the clan invasion in the next few months, I think this game is dead. The rate of content release should gradually speed up as you get more people into the game, not slow down like I feel it has. I'll hold out for a little while longer, and I think the majority of people will to, but if something doesn't change this game will die.


Cheers you win!!!!! I have but one last piece of advise for PGI today---->>> In marketing I've seen only one strategy that can't miss - and that is to market to your best customers first, your best prospects second and the rest of the world last. "----> new cockpit item look-->> Posted Image

Edited by KingCobra, 19 March 2013 - 10:57 AM.


#93 ownka

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:46 AM

View PostKingCobra, on 19 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:


Cheers you win!!!!! I have but one last piece of advise for PGI today---->>> In marketing I've seen only one strategy that can't miss - and that is to market to your best customers first, your best prospects second and the rest of the world last. "----> I can only hope PGI listens before the game becomes more lies----->


I might be having a slow moment, but I read this three times and couldn't figure out what about it was a reply to my post. Its been a long day, could someone explain? :lol:

#94 KingCobra

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:58 AM

View Postownka, on 19 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:


I might be having a slow moment, but I read this three times and couldn't figure out what about it was a reply to my post. Its been a long day, could someone explain? :lol:

Pisssttttt they need to hire more PR and marketing genius.

#95 Mawai

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 10:58 AM

View PostSynra, on 19 March 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

I for one am at my wits end here. I have been playing since last June, and I simply cannot believe where we are at with the game today. I expected it to be much further along and polished. Every day I find myself battling against frustration over really stupid problems with the game, that shouldn't be happening.

I don't even know where to begin describing them, they are so numerous.

-For one, I swear that the matchmaker is out to get me. I am so sick and tired of getting into games where my team loses after I go on a rampage. I deal out 500 or 600 damage, score some kills, then turn around and discover that my whole team has been wiped out, all of them having done 100 damage or less.

-ECM... is a whole long rant in it's own right, but needs to be listed here.

-Raven 3Ls. The perfectly lethal blend of ECM, Speed and firepower. I have seen so many games where just a pair of these working together absolutely wrecked the enemy team.

-7v8 Games. Why are we still seeing this? Why has the launching system and matchmaker still not yet solved this problem?

-Dead Weight: Disconnects and 0 damage players. Just like above, how has this problem not been solved yet? I am so sick of losing a game, then seeing on the score window that I had two people who did absolutely zero damage.

-Mech Weight class matching: One of the most productive things PGI ever did to the game was implement Class matching. And now they have removed it. I am also sick of losing games because the matchmaker gave me a team full of slow moving mechs, against a team with 4 high speed mechs, that either eat us alive, or cap our bases with no difficulty.

-Repair and Rearm are gone. R&R served a very vital purpose. It encouraged players to utilize smaller, cheaper mechs. Before R&R came along, our games were absolutely filled with souped up assaults and heavies. Since R&R was removed not long ago, matches have gone right back to the way they were. The only reason we still see quite a few lights is due to ECM. When that goes away, so will most of the lights. Every week I see more and more Assaults in my matches and it's going to get worse without R&R.


And on top of all these points, is the fact that this game is progressively moving away from Battletech. MWO is supposed to be a grand revival of the Mechwarrior franchise, yet PGI keeps taking the game further and further from the basic rules and stats that should be maintained. PGI seems to have some kind of very skewed and twisted concept of what Battletech is. This doesn't even feel like mechwarrior to me anymore. LRMs are doing 1.8 damage per missile, and deal splash damage. Also, with Artemis, 100% of the missiles hit their target! They should be doing 1.0 damage per missile, and only to the location they hit. And, even with Artemis, they should be landing in a spray. Some missiles hit, some miss. LRMs shouldn't be this far off base. MWO has diverged that much, and PGI isn't doing anything about this very obvious problem. And that's only one of the many weapon systems in the game.

*sigh* I had high hopes for MWO, and it had so much promise last summer. But I should not be writing these things today. None of these problems should exist right now.



Sigh .. first, I have as many concerns about PGI as anyone ... though, it is very difficult to assess and very easy to be critical when you are on the outside looking in ..

BUT ... the list cited above is an entirely unfair criticism of PGI ... comment on things they can change and control ... not on stuff they can't.

1) Team work has nothing to do with PGI. Unless you do something to try to organize the folks you are playing with then a good performance by one player will not win the game for you. If you are turning around to discover everyone dead then I have to suspect you were off by yourself somewhere ... maybe fighting one or two opponents while the rest of the team are munched one by one.

2) ECM is a game mechanic. I think it needs work. However, LRM/SRM/SSRM were/are broken and toning down ECM would have made this much more obvious ... I agree with you that PGI should have faced up to both these issues much earlier ... forum posters have mentioned these frequently. I can only assume that the team that pulls feedback from the forums just decided it was all complaints with no basis in unbalanced reality ... maybe they will pay more attention to feedback now ... who knows.

3) 7 vs.8 games. Have you noticed how long the game waits for that last player? The match maker did not set up a 7 vs 8 ... the invitation that went out the 8th client just did not get connected. Whether this is a PGI code issue or a network issue needs to be determined ... but it is unlikely to be a match-making issue directly.

4) Disconnects and 0-damage players. How can you blame PGI for these? Real life happens ... some one's kid bangs their head ... the phone rings ... the doorbell rings ... someone's mom starts yelling at them for playing too much MW:O ... AFKs are a fact of life ... afk farmers don't get anything anymore so at least the problem is a lot less than it used to be. Disconnects are similar ... they are most likely due to network and networking issues on the client ... there could be server side networking issues as well and network debug code should be running to see if there are unexpected drop outs or if the server is just too sensitive to lag ... but most of the time I would expect these issues to be due to packet loss or lag and outside the control of PGI.

5) I agree that match-making needs some work but to be honest tonnage has not be the deciding factor in most of the matches I have played. In addition, it starts off aiming to match things on a class by class basis not exact tonnage. You could get one side with 4 atlas and other with 4 awesomes ... 80 ton difference but 4 assaults vs. 4 assaults. The matchmaking could be better but I have to admit that my win/loss is currently 1:1 since the detailed stats were released ... so based on that metric the ELO match making would appear to be mostly working for me.

6) R&R was broken. I liked it in general but it was broken. Bonuses were applied to match earnings before costs so that the 50% bonus for premium was actually more like 100% on net earnings. Ammo costs were exorbitant and made it painful to play any mech that needed ammo ... never mind an lrm+artemis or srm+artemis mech. All these costs CAN be brought into line ... a decent economic model could be developed. However, in the end, the average earnings would need to be something like what they are now ... given the small team size at PGI ... it is a much better use of their resources to make a better game before spending a lot of resources creating a balanced R&R system that is effectively mostly just fluff. The overall game can't really be made balanced on an economic basis.

7) None of the MW games have ever been Battletech. I've played all the MW games and started with TT many moons ago. MW is a real time "simulation" and TT is a turn based board game. Any similarity between the two is mostly fortuitous though MW:O did start with TT values and started tweaking to get something with a reasonable feel. In general I think they have succeeded.

All of that said ... I think that PGI could do better on the commincations front and on testing. If I had to guess, I would say that PGI is understaffed for a project of this size and can't afford individuals to do numeric and regression testing to make sure that everything is actually working as intended. They have a mandate to make money ... so content that can be converted to revenue is clearly a very high prioroty ... this includes content that will keep people playing, that will attract them to the game and which can be directly sold through the in-game stores. However, in my opinion they really need to ensure that the underlying game is solid and reasonably balanced or the introduction of content may fail to achieve the goals they are aiming for ...

... anyway ... like many other folks I love the franchise and hope that PGI will continue to make a great game.

#96 rgreat

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 11:30 AM

View PostRobottiimu2000, on 19 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

so many games has good gameplay as well

Sadly it is not true...

#97 Red squirrel

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Posted 19 March 2013 - 05:44 PM

View PostAlexEss, on 19 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

So i am still not worried, would it have been smart from a PR/Burnout angle to not release the game until it had another year in development... perhaps.


yes perhaps, but would I have wanted to wait another year? No!

View PostAlexEss, on 19 March 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Is the game in danger of being turned over dead.. nope. This game will remain a small game with a very loyal core and a fairly large pool of people coming and going.


At least that is my take on it.


Yes I think I am not the only one. MW:O is actually the only game I played in the last year.
The rest of my life is work and misery :rolleyes:





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