30 replies to this topic

[Kell Morgan]

shihku7, on 19 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

give MGs the ability to shoot down LRMs. That would be fun

That would be fun! lol

[FrostCollar]

PANZERBUNNY, on 19 March 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

More ammo per ton would help in protracted engagements and raise its level of usefulness.

As I said before, I have never run out of MG ammo. If you aren't running out of ammo already, more won't help. There's no advantage gain by dying with or winning with extra unused ammunition.

[Kell Morgan]

FrostCollar, on 19 March 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

As I said before, I have never run out of MG ammo. If you aren't running out of ammo already, more won't help. There's no advantage gain by dying with or winning with extra unused ammunition.

Yea ammo Isn't really a problem with MG. Ive never run out of ammo and ran 4 MG on a cicada don't need much ammo

[Kell Morgan]

I think with MG it could be made a unique weapon by allowing it to start stripping ammo and heat sinks from a mech before the armor is gone. Its dangerous to get that close to another mech. I think starting to weaken them early would be a great benefit. We already have weapons that do damage to armor why not something that can support that by weakening a mech a little early. Taking 2 or 3 heatsinks off can REALLY put the hurt on some builds!

[Terror Teddy]

Kell Morgan, on 19 March 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

I think with MG it could be made a unique weapon by allowing it to start stripping ammo and heat sinks from a mech before the armor is gone. Its dangerous to get that close to another mech. I think starting to weaken them early would be a great benefit. We already have weapons that do damage to armor why not something that can support that by weakening a mech a little early. Taking 2 or 3 heatsinks off can REALLY put the hurt on some builds!

'
So making it a weapon that causes ammo explosions and destroyes engine heatsinks without penetrating armour?

That would be so overpowered it would be silly.

I'd be able to CRIPPLE mechs in that case without hardly harming them.

[Barghest Whelp]

Corbon Zackery, on 19 March 2013 - 12:24 PM, said:

Its not my job to solve your problems I not employed by your company.

Well, actually, since this is beta, and you signed up for the beta, that makes you a beta tester. Now, once upon a time, when games were finished before being released to marked, there were these people called beta testers. These people were actually paid a salary for *dramatic pause* playing the game before it was finished.

Yes, that's correct, a game, or any other software that's in beta, means it's not finished, and it needs further *drumroll* testing *hihat*. In other words, my dear friend, that makes you a beta tester, and even though nobody pays you a salary, you are in fact working for PGI.

So yes, you are working for the company, it's just that you is doing it fo' fwee!

[Kell Morgan]

Terror Teddy, on 19 March 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

'
So making it a weapon that causes ammo explosions and destroyes engine heatsinks without penetrating armour?

That would be so overpowered it would be silly.

I'd be able to CRIPPLE mechs in that case without hardly harming them.

If you read my earlier post I stated giving it a chance for armor penetration was the idea. Machine guns as of right now don't do much damage but they do hurt internals "ok". I'm not saying make them ignore armor but taking out a heatsink or 2 while your trying to remove armor would be nice.

MG dont really do any damage to armor and that's the problem with them right now because once someones armor is open they usually dont last long enough to make MG's worth it. now if they had a chance to do a little damage before the armor is gone would be nice and it could be done in a reasonable fashion that wouldn't make it terribly over porwered

[Sanreal]

All missiles are doing crazy good damage right now. Both damage and splash need to be reduced for all missiles. Missiles just equal the most damage for the least tonnage right now. And because LRMs and Streaks are lock-on, they really don't need much aiming (and LRMs have great range too). Also, LRMs with Artemis simply track too well against fast mechs. A scout mech going 150 kph should be able to dodge LRMs and achieve a scout for his own friendly LRMs, instead of dying in one volley. And because Streaks have perfect guidance, no scout mech can play without them, or against them.

ECM needs to be nerfed greatly as well. Whichever team has more ECM is probably the winning team 90% of the time. ECM completely nullifies lock-on weapons, but also scrambles radar making situational awareness and team tactics almost impossible. When ECM gets added to missile boats, whether it be Streaks or LRMs, those mechs become peerless when dueling against the same weapons from the enemy team. We don't see any light mechs played anymore that don't have both ECM and Streaks. What more proof do we need?

MGs and Flamers need a damage boost (against armor), not a crit seeking boost that only makes them useful in late game situations.

All of the autocannon weapons need their heat reduced by half, in my opinion. A/C 2s most of all. Also, A/C 10 needs its tonnage lowered slightly. Compare the A/C 10 to the Gauss Rifle and you find that the Gauss does 50% more damage, at longer range, with faster projectile speed, and generates no heat. The A/C 10 requires multiple heat sinks to offset. Its only advantage is that it doesn't explode.

Alpha strikes are making otherwise fair weapons into frustrating one-shot wonders. Adding "splash" heat generation to weapons stacked together in a mech is a possible solution... but I'd prefer simply staggering the fire of weapons so that they can't all fire at the exact same instant. Realistically, no weapons systems that I know of are quite that perfect. You can find videos of Katyusha rockets, MLRS, or FFAR pods, and they have to fire off their barrage one at a time. Energy weapons all firing at once would probably outstrip the available power. Same for Gauss. But without fixes, alpha strike builds are currently ruining any possibility of "balanced" builds.

We've been waiting for months for PGI to do something about ECM and Streaks. We can add Splatcats, Gauss/ERPPC pop-tarts, 6 PPC Stalkers, and LRMs galore to that imbalance. Many of these builds will kill in 1 or 2 shots, making them guaranteed winners. PGI, please fix.

[CommonDiseases]

Yep. The weapons are unbalanced and should stay that way. Complaining about nerfing and mgs and ecm and ams...I get it - it sucks to get caught in the open (where'd that little ecm dude go?) and get racked out of the fight by a flight of twenty thousand missiles converging on you from every direction in point seven seconds.

But it makes you come up with strategies of your own. And here's the thing: There is enough options that nothing works ALL the time, and different people react and adapt differently. I don't care how loaded you are with - whatever; there is a team that can beat your team. And a team that can beat them. It's about working together to make all the available options work, not necessarily about your individual loadout.

So instead of talking about the programming, think like a warrior.

[FrostCollar]

CommonDiseases, on 19 March 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Yep. The weapons are unbalanced and should stay that way.

A ridiculous assertion. In a well designed game, all weapons are useful in some cases. That's not the case in MWO currently.

CommonDiseases, on 19 March 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

Complaining about nerfing and mgs and ecm and ams...I get it - it sucks to get caught in the open (where'd that little ecm dude go?) and get racked out of the fight by a flight of twenty thousand missiles converging on you from every direction in point seven seconds.

Do you truly understand why this is bad? Do you "get it?" Game balance isn't about being "caught out in the open." It's about some things being disproportionately effective.

CommonDiseases, on 19 March 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

But it makes you come up with strategies of your own. And here's the thing: There is enough options that nothing works ALL the time,

This is a nice notion that is unfortunately false. SSRMs have never let me down on my Raven 3L. Never. SRMs have always provided me a knockout punch on my X-5, and medium lasers have always been my bread and butter. This game could have five million different types of weapons yet if all of them except the current ones were useless, the most effective builds would remain the same. Options are only valid if they are effective.

CommonDiseases, on 19 March 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

and different people react and adapt differently. I don't care how loaded you are with - whatever; there is a team that can beat your team. And a team that can beat them. It's about working together to make all the available options work, not necessarily about your individual loadout.

This is similar to your last point and flawed in the same sense. Some builds are better against other types of builds, this is true. However, some builds are objectively better than others. I hate to break out this tired old argument, but there aren't many ways to beat the 4 3L, 2 A1, 2 D-DC or similar types of teams if your skills are equal. That's the main trouble. The issue isn't that more skilled players can beat less skilled players. The real issue is that many different loadouts provide a clear advantage over others given players of the same skill. Sometimes this is justified (LRMs should always lose at close range) but often it is not (why should the Jenner perform so poorly against the 3L?).

CommonDiseases, on 19 March 2013 - 05:14 PM, said:

So instead of talking about the programming, think like a warrior.

I've seen this argument before, and it's wrong. This is a game we're talking about. We can adapt to balance issues and we have. The real question is, now that we have adapted, are we better off than before?

[armyof1]

Terror Teddy, on 19 March 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

You know, why cant we give MG's the magical ability to actually do something about armor - like DAMAGE IT.

You're tripping man, we all know weapons under 6 tons should barely damage armor, well except ML, MPL, LL, ERLL, SL, SPL, SSRM2, SRM2, SRM4, SRM6, LRM5, LRM10, and MGs.