10 replies to this topic

[Seox]

Hello,

I did not see a post on this and was quite surprised, as I have heard a few complaints in matches. I play a founder's cat for the vast majority of my matches, and in the past six I have been headshot by jagermechs from nowhere three times. I wholly recognize that I should be more aware of them and that I need to keep an eye out wherever I go, but everyone knows that that's much easier said than done when you're in the middle of a duel with someone else. I have never been headshot in the entirety of closed beta and half of open beta due to my ability to torso twist, and I play my cat as a brawler.

In one of the matches, I dropped with two of my friends; Within the first two minutes I ended up in a fight with a centurion with them before suddenly collapsing. I didn't even see the guy, which makes me feel that he likely popped out and took the shot immediately. I asked the group to figure out what he was running, but within a minute or so he had loldurped another one of us before we found him (there were about three other mechs there by then) and saw that he was running dual AC20s. Once we'd figure out who and where he was, we watched him systematically sprint up to two other people at point blank range and trolololol AC20 them to death splatcat style.

A match later I was killed in less than a second by a jagermech with six AC/2s. I crapped my pants.

Let me quickly explain what I am and am not saying: Boats are fine and there are ways to work around them. I should do what I can to be aware of jagermechs if they bother me and prioritize them. I also recognize that in a fair amount of these cases, a solid level of aim is required and the hits were earned, so please don't tell me to stop whining or L2p - I'm just trying to give patch feedback and ask if others have also seen this.

Has anyone else, beyond the LRM issue with cockpits, noticed increased cockpit fragility this patch or issues with certain builds of jagermech being a major pain in the ***? Is it just the catapult? Do we need to reexamine the head hitbox? I feel that with my level of experience, if I'm having issues with this, it's very likely that beginners will too, though I recognize that others' experiences may be different.

Edited by Seox, 20 March 2013 - 07:45 AM.

[DoyleHT]

I was watching a few Jagermech videos and saw the exact same thing happen (a Jager doubletap a Cat's cockpit) I think a large reason for this is the placement of the Jager's guns - they fire slightly downward directly on top of a Catapult's cockpit.

I think a greater issue is the sheer size of the Catapult cockpit. Compared to most other mechs, the Cat's cockpit is HUGE. Big enough that I aim for it, and hit it, on a regular basis. The fact that it is in the middle of the CT doesn't help. The only mech which has a bigger cockpit hitbox is the Hunchback - and everyone either fires for the hunch or the CT so it's not a huge problem.

If you compare two heavy mechs, the Catapult and the Cataphract, they have similar sized graphics, but MUCH different hitboxes. (See this link for a comparison of all mechs) The Cataphract cockpit hitbox is only the very center panel of the graphic, while the Catapult hitbox is the entire glass graphic.

If it's possible to shrink the size of the hitbox down to the center panel, it would make a world of difference. The cat would still have a larger than average hitbox, but it wouldn't be so disproportionate.

[Roland]

The Dual AC20 JM is a headshot machine in the hands of a skilled pilot.

But this isn't a change... The old K2 used to do the exact same thing.

Any mech capable of doing an alpha strike of more than 33 points will one-shot any mech in the game if it hits the head.

The only thing that has changed regarding headshots, in this patch, is that now splash damage seems to be affecting heads. They had previously turned this off in earlier beta, but they seem to have accidentally turned it back on.. so now, you're able to be headshotted by missile weapons.

The JM's ability to headshot you isn't in any way a bug. 40 damage to your cockpit will have that effect. Be glad it's not TT, where even the hunchback could insta-kill any mech if it landed it's single AC20 on your cockpit.

[Seox]

Thank you both for the respectful responses.

Roland, on 20 March 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

The Dual AC20 JM is a headshot machine in the hands of a skilled pilot.

But this isn't a change... The old K2 used to do the exact same thing.

Any mech capable of doing an alpha strike of more than 33 points will one-shot any mech in the game if it hits the head.

The only thing that has changed regarding headshots, in this patch, is that now splash damage seems to be affecting heads. They had previously turned this off in earlier beta, but they seem to have accidentally turned it back on.. so now, you're able to be headshotted by missile weapons.

The JM's ability to headshot you isn't in any way a bug. 40 damage to your cockpit will have that effect. Be glad it's not TT, where even the hunchback could insta-kill any mech if it landed it's single AC20 on your cockpit.

Right; I wasn't necessarily saying it was a bug, just wondering if others had experienced the same issue and had found it to be a problem, really. Just wanna clarify and make sure that the inevitable "LOL U SUCK L2P" bandwagon doesn't come in and claim that I'm accusing people of hacking

[Sedant]

Because of the gun placement with AC/20's or gauss the projectiles are usually traveling up to down towards the target giving it a much larger opportunity for a head shot. Previous ballistic boats have the bullet flight path going down to up, giving it much less to hit. The real joy I have been getting out of my AC/20 Jagermech is not from one shotting Catapults, which is easy enough now, but one shotting Stalkers. Nothing like hearing them ***** and moan after getting one shot. There is a downside however! The Jagermech has a **** poor head hit box and usually gets 75-90% cored from a volley of LRM's. They are fragile, but if your not paying attention, your gonna be paying for a funeral.

[Seox]

Alright, it sounds like a lot of jagermech pilots have a solid concept of their mech;

What do I do? I know that the "easy" answer is "be aware and look for jagermechs!" as once I see them, I can juke their aim/torso twist and I should be ok, but if we're honest with ourselves, it's not exactly practical to do 360 sweeps when I'm dogfighting people, you know?

What can I do to minimize this? Dx

Thank you for all the feedback so far!

[TexAce]

there is really nothing you can do except shoot them before they shoot you.

if they are highly armed they most probably have paperthin armor or an XL engine. So side torsos or legs would be where I'd aim.

I'm piloting an JM6-S, too and also had a dual AC20 config yesterday but the trade-offs were too much for my playing style.

Edited by TexAss, 20 March 2013 - 08:21 AM.

[Roland]

The best way to avoid getting headshot is to NEVER stop moving.

Any mech that I see that is standing still, is most likely gonna get killed through its head if a skilled pilot sees them.

[Mazgazine1]

It also has to do with how the Jagermechs guns are setup, they are high up and will aim DOWN at the catapult, which at close range is directly into the cockpit.. At range to this can make a difference.

[Roland]

The angle really doesn't have much to do with killing a catapult.

The pult is easy to headshot with any high alpha mech, including other catapults.

[Seox]

Roland, on 20 March 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

The angle really doesn't have much to do with killing a catapult.

The pult is easy to headshot with any high alpha mech, including other catapults.

That's the thing, though, in hundreds of matches before the implementation of the jagermech, I have never once, not even a single time taken a death due to cockpit loss. Not once. I know that it's easy to headshot pults - I do it myself - But I've managed to torso twist well enough to prevent that from ever being an issue. I don't face people head on until I'm shooting, and I typically stay very mobile. Just seemed silly that it then happens in 3/6 matches since they were implemented :S DEM HACKIN' JAGERMECHS.

Edited by Seox, 20 March 2013 - 10:52 AM.