433 replies to this topic

[LaserAngel]

Prosperity Park, on 20 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I took the trial Stalker for a stroll in the training grounds, and managed to Kill the Commando Target with a single volley of LRM-10...

I did the same with my Catapult C1 but then again it is the stock Commando 1B. That's 54 potential damage if all the missiles hit and with Artemis in its current state it's a drill.

[Roadbeer]

DCM Zeus, on 20 March 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

We need more of an official update than we are looking into it.

Lulz, you have to look into a problem before you can comment on it or give an update.

Patch is less than 24 hours old and they just got to work like 3 hours ago, post was made 2 hours ago.

Entitled much?

[Hedonism Robot]

The damage would actually be fine if AMS would finally get the buff it deserves. When my AMS shoots down a missile and explodes it in the air, it would be nice if that dmg splashed to surrounding missiles in the same manner the splash from my leg hits my cockpit

[Hayashi]

LaserAngel, on 20 March 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:

I did the same with my Catapult C1 but then again it is the stock Commando 1B. That's 54 potential damage if all the missiles hit and with Artemis in its current state it's a drill.

From Amaris the Usurper's tests, missiles do 16 damage each to commandos on average before the Jager patch. So 10 LRMs do 160 damage if all hit.

Edited by Hayashi, 20 March 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Quadrone]

If you are doing a hotfix, would you mind squeezing in a reduction of the Jägermech head hitbox?
Getting my cockpit shot out like never before.

[Khanahar]

MuonNeutrino, on 20 March 2013 - 10:10 AM, said:

I agree with you in general. I would quibble a bit, though, about 'all the most interesting balancing schemes do this'. I would rather say: 'in *some kinds of games* that's the most interesting type of balance scheme'. In this one, I would argue that that's a fundamentally flawed scheme and therefore the *least* interesting. As you point out, this balance scheme hinges upon the combatants being able to dynamically shift around their counters, counter-counters, etc to effectively oppose what their opponent is bringing. I agree that PGI is unlikely to add that sort of thing here, but I would go a bit futher and say that the inherent structure of this game *precludes* adding that sort of thing. And if your game can't include that sort of fluidity, you can't use that balancing system. Instead, as you say, you need to soften both so that they aren't such overpowering elements.

Agreed.

My point was mainly just that OPvOP balancing is not inherently flawed in general, just that it may be inappropriate for this game. Perhaps one day we will have a tournament mode where the teams get to pick 'mechs in alternation so they can adjust to the other side's composition. And in that mode, certain kinds of highly OP, hard-countered equipment will be available. And outside of it, it will not.

But probably that day will never come. And we will be forced to accept a more simplified balancing scheme by the nature of the game.

BTW, if this were SC or LoL, there wouldn't just be cover and ECM as a counter to LRMs, and certainly not just ECCM, TAG (sorta), and PPCs (sorta) as counters to ECM. There would be far more options available to far more 'mechs. Ideally some counter anybody could use. For Example:
Knockdown disables ECM for 5 seconds
Mechs above 50% heat cannot use ECM or ECCM effectively
UAVs can spot ECM-cloaked 'mechs
Command Consoled 'mechs counter ECM
BAP can partially counter ECM
Traditionally long-ranged 'mechs (Jager, Cat, Awesome, etc.) have limited ability to lock missiles on ECM targets
Traditionally short-ranged 'mechs (Hunch, Jenner, Commando, etc.) have limited ability to lock missiles while under ECM themselves
ECM 'mechs are easier to lock onto than other 'mechs (a la MW4)

Locked missiles no longer hold lock easier than aquiring it
Missile locks partially disrupted by PPC hits
Missile locks take longer to acquire against targets with lower-rated fusion engines

[LaserAngel]

Hayashi, on 20 March 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

From Amaris the Usurper's tests, missiles do 16 damage each to commandos on average before the Jager patch. So 10 LRMs do 160 damage if all hit.

Of course, that is taking into account the wonky splash damage. After the Jager patch even that doesn't feel quite right when discussing missile weapons. It feels like Artemis Orbital Strike again.

[Roadbeer]

Quadrone, on 20 March 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

If you are doing a hotfix, would you mind squeezing in a reduction of the Jägermech head hitbox?
Getting my cockpit shot out like never before.

I don't see this as a problem. The head on a Jaggermech is almost Center Mass in the CT

[Xandergod]

Prosperity Park, on 20 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

I took the trial Stalker for a stroll in the training grounds, and managed to Kill the Commando Target with a single volley of LRM-10...

Tis not representative of actual gameplay.

What ever balancing occurs. As a LRM user. Sure make my job harder, don't make it impossible.

[Sheraf]

LRM appears to take out the head quite quick in this patch, but other than that, the game is still the same as before for me. I still carry 2 LRM 10 Artemis, and kill people who run around in circle out in the open

[TAsme]

Oneshot Lights: Check
Oneshot Mediums: Check
Two shot Heavys: Check
Two Shot Assaults: Check
4 LRM 15 : Check

Enough Firepower - with or without buff.
Learn to handle the LRM Splats - or they ll handle u

[WardenWolf]

WVAnonymous, on 20 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

Consider the design stolen. I just acquired the DDC a few weeks ago so I don't have a "library" of builds I like.

Glad to help a fellow pilot - enjoy!

If you are looking for other Atlas builds, check out this post I put up earlier today in another thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2090974

[hammerreborn]

You know, I wonder if any of the code for artillery/airstrikes went in, and the 10m splash for those weapons is somehow overwriting the splash damage range for regular missiles, in addition to the leg hitbox fix.

[GusTheInsane]

Missiles are way to powerfull, I am a Sniper mostly and this really upsets me, I wish I could kill with my Gause and AC's like that, 1 volly of missiles and you are useless or dead, make haste on the Hot Patch!! TY

[Hayashi]

hammerreborn, on 20 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

You know, I wonder if any of the code for artillery/airstrikes went in, and the 10m splash for those weapons is somehow overwriting the splash damage range for regular missiles, in addition to the leg hitbox fix.

Actually, this sounds like a very high possibility explanation.

Bryan Ekman, on 20 March 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

.

Quoting to attempt to summon you back here. Can you check this possibility out?

[Tarman]

hammerreborn, on 20 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

You know, I wonder if any of the code for artillery/airstrikes went in, and the 10m splash for those weapons is somehow overwriting the splash damage range for regular missiles, in addition to the leg hitbox fix.

I am volunteering you to be their (apparent) first internal tester. That's some nice theorizing.

[Skyfaller]

Bloody Moon, on 20 March 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Just implement the splash damage removal this week instead of April 2nd and problem solved.

I agree. Why not use this week to really test the splash removal?

[Hayashi]

Tarman, on 20 March 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I am volunteering you to be their (apparent) first internal tester. That's some nice theorizing.

Actually they already have internal testers. But apparently either they're not LRM fans, or something is not the same between the live servers and test servers such that this didn't get reflected.

I'm already doing whatever I can to escalate this theory for consideration/rule out to the devs. If it turns out to be correct we might save some time troubleshooting leading to a faster fix.

[Felicitatem Parco]

hammerreborn, on 20 March 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

You know, I wonder if any of the code for artillery/airstrikes went in, and the 10m splash for those weapons is somehow overwriting the splash damage range for regular missiles, in addition to the leg hitbox fix.

I have been wondering about this ever since the SRMs Doing More Damage thread popped up a little while ago. It's *possible* that there's a relationship between the new Support Strikes and the regular weapons' Splash Damages. I have developed a few mental Scenarios:

• maybe the SRMs and LRMs were accidentally given the Splash Radius of an Arty Striksome
  
• maybe the Splash Damage value from arty strikes was given to the SRMs/LRMs
  
• maybe Splash Damage is being applied in full-force throughout the blast radius instead of tapering off as a function of distance-from-impact
  
• maybe the impact damage value for LRMs and SRMs was accidentally added onto the Missiles' intended splash damage value
  
• maybe someone shifted a decimal...

Lots of possibilities.

Edit - Fewer now.. I just did some tests and the Missiles don't have a 10m spalsh radius, and splash is less than 10dmg for SRMs and LRMs.

I do think the latter possibilities are still possible... but back to testing!

EditTwo - So, I see that SRM and LRM Splash does indeed taper-off as a function of distance from impact...

More Testing! (mind you, all in the Testing Grounds so Far... but LRMs are, indeed, OP in the testing grounds, so I hope these observations hold water)

Edited by Prosperity Park, 20 March 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Hayashi, on 20 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Actually they already have internal testers. But apparently either they're not LRM fans, or something is not the same between the live servers and test servers such that this didn't get reflected.

I'm already doing whatever I can to escalate this theory for consideration/rule out to the devs. If it turns out to be correct we might save some time troubleshooting leading to a faster fix.

Well we already know that testing ground has vastly different numbers (as confirmed by Paul in the streak test) for some unknown reason, so it's possible that this is falling through the cracks somehow on the test servers.

I think I might try testing when I get home and see how far the splash goes out to legs. Unless someone wants to try and do that for me >.>

Edited by hammerreborn, 20 March 2013 - 10:50 AM.