103 replies to this topic

[Thejusttired]

Awesome. Thank you for that. Where do i need to sign the petition.

[HammelHauer]

I agree with most things but not with all.
Jump jets should also have specific locations where to place. Its a big strange that you can put them in the legs. The jj of a 3D are placed in the back of the torso so only be able to put them in the torsos.
The ct of a spider should be able to mount HE HP.
All Atlas should have HE HP in the arms. But max 2PPC in the RS so you could fit 4LL but not 4PPC

Sorry but the Dragons are fail. Cant fit LL or a Gauss.

Bun anyway the ideas are pretty good but not perfect made for all Mechs. The hardpoints of several Mechs need to be revise. And it should be possible to fit lower weapons on higher HP like ml in HE HP.
The post is a bit long

Edited by HammelHauer, 25 March 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

HammelHauer, on 25 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

All Atlas should have HE HP in the arms. But max 2PPC in the RS so you could fit 4LL but not 4PPC
Sorry but the Dragons are fail. Cant fit LL or a Gauss.

Um...no i don't think so. The AS7-D or the AS7-DDC shouldn't have HE HP in the arms.
With HE in the Arms...you can build a AS7-D similar to a AS7-K.
I mean...if the MechLab changes in this way... my loved founder Atlas need a complete overhall.. because not a single Atlas variantion will allow me to create that load out aggain.

The Dragons - and the idea to mount a Gauss or a Large Laser don't sound like a good idea... but anyhow, call it P2W but lets suggest the Fang could be able to mount a Large Laser in the arm and a Gauss in the other.

What gives me another idea? Should it be possible to swap two smaller hardpoints into a larger one?

[FrostBear]

Karl Streiger, on 25 March 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

Well, that are multiple ideas in a monster of wall of text...

i wished you had made multiple topics and linked them together.

I like the idea of different weapon classes and i think the difference between Clan and IS sound reasonable.

I really like the concept of LRM the difference between SRM and to say Flammer and MachineGuns are Anti-Infantry is elegant. (If not the best)

There are now several ideas out in the forums... if one of them made it I will be glad.

Totally agree on your post, and for my excuse of not splitting up the post, then maybe they went lost in the masswhiningposts. Maybe a wall of text my friend, but, with all explanation that everyone can see some difference in it, and who is interessted, will read.

FrostBear

HammelHauer, on 25 March 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

I agree with most things but not with all.
Jump jets should also have specific locations where to place. Its a big strange that you can put them in the legs. The jj of a 3D are placed in the back of the torso so only be able to put them in the torsos.
The ct of a spider should be able to mount HE HP.
All Atlas should have HE HP in the arms. But max 2PPC in the RS so you could fit 4LL but not 4PPC

Sorry but the Dragons are fail. Cant fit LL or a Gauss.

Bun anyway the ideas are pretty good but not perfect made for all Mechs. The hardpoints of several Mechs need to be revise. And it should be possible to fit lower weapons on higher HP like ml in HE HP.
The post is a bit long

As i said in the post, its tweakable, but, dont forget, that it is intended to make differences, between the mech variants, for their intended roles, if the variants of the chassis come out, with gauss, or LL in special parts on the mech, then pgi can introduce them, and have another useable, variants for players to purchase and use. Think of that to. Diversified mechs and loadouts, more variants, and more difference on the field, and by playerstyles finaly. Nothing stands in the way, to bring more chassis with nice wpn mixes, and its good for pgi and for us, or not?

FrostBear

Edited by FrostBear, 25 March 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[Larkis]

Nice idea,

First, kill the mechlab, IS dont need thi anymore.

Dan put the Clanmechs into give the people the mechlab back and hope that enough player would stay on the weaker IS mechs, so ayu can play 12 weaak mechs without mechlab against 5 mechlabdriven supermechs...

not a good idea i votet for no.

Killing the mechlap will kill the game complete.

[FrostBear]

Larkis, on 25 March 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Nice idea,

First, kill the mechlab, IS dont need thi anymore.

Dan put the Clanmechs into give the people the mechlab back and hope that enough player would stay on the weaker IS mechs, so ayu can play 12 weaak mechs without mechlab against 5 mechlabdriven supermechs...

not a good idea i votet for no.

Killing the mechlap will kill the game complete.

My friend, its not about killing mechlab, mechlab will be still usefull for sure, but at the moment you have no difference in is or clan mechs exept, style, name, tech. And you have your opinion, thats allright, but also think about, more difference, more balance, more fun, also, and long time playing, cause as above written, more variants can be brought out, good balanced, but different too. This opens lot of possible things, and it makes two big different factions, and yes it can be tweaked, but we have at the moment a one way ticket for MWO. It has such great potential in it, why not using it, and making it right. And for the boaterfreaks, they can make solaris, there all mechs are pimpmymech mechs, like Yenlo, that would be no problem, that are gladiator games on solaris, competitive brawls.

FrostBear

[Karl Streiger]

FrostBear, on 25 March 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

And for the boaterfreaks, they can make solaris, there all mechs are pimpmymech mechs, like Yenlo, that would be no problem, that are gladiator games on solaris, competitive brawls.

That is a good explanation. BattleMechs are military vehicles - not only toys for the rich and noble. They have to full fill a dozen of tasks on the battlefield - a too specified vehicle - like Clan or Solaris Gladiator - can kill a whole company.

So tech has to be more durable, that means stress to structure and energy or ammunition feed should be reduced.
I knew it is kind of stupid to explain things that are not part of the "game" experience, but its a part of BattleTech.

So ... to have a more restrective mech lab will not kill the fun...its just another kind of fun.
Look in MechCommander 1 you had in the second mission a drop weihgt of 80tons. Not enough to drop more as 3 commandos...and there was that menacing hollander.... i wished i would have been able to use two more heavyer mechs but i couldn't so i run this mission again and aggain tried to overcome that limitation and succeeded.

Thats how it should work. Just to create a I-Win Mech - Once that is not fun at all.

[Arktiswylf]

TL;DR: Have Clan mechs be more capable of weapon loadouts, but less capable in terms on versatility. And Vice versa for IS Mechs. AKA Have Battlemechs and Omni mechs, Exclusive to their respective Faction.

I agree with your post, however you made it way to long, i doubt half the people that come to this thread will decide to read all of it. Try to summarize as much as possible. And give specifics if asked for them.

[Gallowglas]

The easy, no-nonsense solution for IS/Clan balance is numbers. 12 IS versus 9 Clan, for instance.

[Quardak]

@Gallowglas: But nothing will change... only thing we play ist IS-Boats against Clan-Boats. With exception that Clan have better capabilities for boating (LRM with half-weight with no min / Streak-6).

this Idea is to help the boating-Problem, let us have a mechlab and the choice which Mech-Variant i want to have.

Edited by Quardak, 25 March 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Tigridor]

Quardak, on 25 March 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

This idea ist too good for forget!

Push!

a very good base for balancing Weapons and Mechs

Thanks!!!

we think long time about it, this is one of the best way ( i think not the best) to Balancing the game between IS and Clans.
i hope many people like this idea to have a great game in MWO for a long time!!

[Quardak]

So lets hope a lot of people will read this

[Arktiswylf]

I will bump this for a few days in hopes that some Dev's see it and take it into account. Cause it really is a good idea. Also I do feel that even with this change numbers should still be a factor, as it is well known that Clans Drop in Stars, 5 Mech drops, and not 8 mech drops like the current lay-out. So we could see 8v5 and 12v10

[Karl Streiger]

Hm not without BattleValue or similar. I'm pretty sure that 5 MinMaxed Clan Mechs will cut through even 12 Tech 1 Mechs (trial).
While 10 min maxed Clan Mechs will have some major issues to beat 12 min maxed IS Mechs.
With the good OP suggestion you will have a good fundamental balance issue:
IS-thougher more armor vs. Clan more firepower for cost of durability.

Ok - you have to say good bye to IS-XL engines.

[Rubidiy]

this system is too straightforward. this way you almost completely remove any versatility. For example:

Centurion AL
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP - WRONG

Centurion AL
RA - 1x HE HP or 2x SE HP - RIGHT

Also it is not olny a question of weapon types. It is possible to install either PPC or AC10. Every part of a mech should have a number of free slots (for example 9), but also some of them should be slots for weapons only (say, 2). Thus you can fill all 9 slots of CN9-AL's right arm with equipment, if you want to. But if you want to install there weapons, you won't be able to put there 2 or even 1 PPC. All you can do is to put there 1 LL or 2 ML. Thus in future you can create some special medium class mech seemingly the same but with 3 weapon slots in it's RA. Thus it will become unique because it would have the capability of wielding PPC in it's RA.

This was just an example, and actually I don't approve current situation in which AC10 requires 7 slots and PPC only 3 slots.


ABOUT CLAN vs. IS

Guys, I don't wanna just criticise you, cause your way of thinking is a right way to eventually find that right game balance, but just look at what we have got today. Today boats always win. Best strategy is equipping al of your team's mechs like boats but split 'em into two different roles. For example 4 Laser/PPC boats and 4 brawler boats. Not giving the ability to use any mech like a boat is essential for both clans and IS. Boats still should be a specific and not a universal mechs with glaring weaknesses. Unability to equip another engine won't balance it.

Anyway I vote positively for generally I agree with necessity of creating a brand new system of distinguishing both mechs and their weapons.

Edited by Rubidiy, 26 March 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Xerxys]

I love BT and MW as well and from my understanding(limited as it may be) the clans had superior tech and pilots but the cost for such technical superiority is that they can't field as many mechs as the IS can. The balance would therefore be to drop fewer clan mechs per match than you would IS mechs. To a reasonable proportion. Perhaps down 2 players and if that's not enough increase the deficit until you find the sweet spot. Problem solved with the clans?

[FrostBear]

Rubidiy, on 26 March 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

this system is too straightforward. this way you almost completely remove any versatility. For example:

Centurion AL
RA - 1x HE HP + 1x SE HP - WRONG

Centurion AL
RA - 1x HE HP or 2x SE HP - RIGHT

Also it is not olny a question of weapon types. It is possible to install either PPC or AC10. Every part of a mech should have a number of free slots (for example 9), but also some of them should be slots for weapons only (say, 2). Thus you can fill all 9 slots of CN9-AL's right arm with equipment, if you want to. But if you want to install there weapons, you won't be able to put there 2 or even 1 PPC. All you can do is to put there 1 LL or 2 ML. Thus in future you can create some special medium class mech seemingly the same but with 3 weapon slots in it's RA. Thus it will become unique because it would have the capability of wielding PPC in it's RA.

This was just an example, and actually I don't approve current situation in which AC10 requires 7 slots and PPC only 3 slots.


ABOUT CLAN vs. IS

Guys, I don't wanna just criticise you, cause your way of thinking is a right way to eventually find that right game balance, but just look at what we have got today. Today boats always win. Best strategy is equipping al of your team's mechs like boats but split 'em into two different roles. For example 4 Laser/PPC boats and 4 brawler boats. Not giving the ability to use any mech like a boat is essential for both clans and IS. Boats still should be a specific and not a universal mechs with glaring weaknesses. Unability to equip another engine won't balance it.

Anyway I vote positively for generally I agree with necessity of creating a brand new system of distinguishing both mechs and their weapons.

Agree with you to friend, as i said before, its tweakable, it is a solution for difference and balance, to make it worth playing both sides, not only the superior tech side, wich at the moment, will dominate over time. I know lot of different players out there, some bt/mw fans, other none, but that is not important, important for mwo is to live for a long time, so we can play it. Think about, you have damn nice pimped car, your proud of your car, you invested money, time, and work. Then you drive around, and realise, damn, nearly everyone drives only pimped cars, your car isn´t so much different. (only for thinking about the suggestion). If everyone plays same mechloadouts...were will be the fun over the long time term? Diversified loadouts make it more skilled fighting, on the Battlefield where your military Mechs are needed. Pimped Brawler mechs are great in Solaris in the Gladiator style games, hard hitting mechs, in tight pitched brawls, for the Guys loving hard competitive fights, with skill. The rewarding system for the Clan faction, puts in a very different gamesplay style, cause you have to think teambased, but fight as an ego driven elitist thinking Clanwarrior, only honor and win defines them in their clans. The core idea is, to prevent, boating in masses, exept, mechs that are built for that, and to bind the players all into the game, everyone can find his/her own playstyle. If on the IS battlefield, Clanside, Solaris Gladiator games. We have damn lot of good (i call them Elitekillerboat) players, who like maxed hardhitting brawl mechs, and hard competitive fights, Solaris is the Planet for skilled hardcore fighter, Elite Pilots. Yes some only use boats at the moment its easy click gaming. But its a game, if it dont live long enough...noone will have it to play some day. PGI trys to catch lot of different players, with that, they can also last long time, cause they have the chance, to make the players play IS, Clan, Solaris, Clanwarfare. Totaly different styles, rewards, builds, interessts, kind of teamplay. Thats what a game should have to live a long time, and so they can earn the money to make it a big open world for the mechjocks from all over the Innere Sphere / Clan Territories / Solaris Gladiators. Specialised Variants can be put in, more Variants to please loadout favorisation, but allways in mind, to prevent mass boating.

And for the IS vs Clan fights, with a battlevalue system you can make it even, not perfect but even. It needs to count every equipment peace in the mechs to make its job. And you will see that the numbers on mechs dropped on the Clanside will variie, cause of the loadout, more clanmechs, more players with diversified loadouts, lesser mechs on the clanside, more boating warrior. You can lock innere sphere side to 12 as is intended, and the clanside open exept bound to battlevalu caluculation, so you can explain why there are only 5 omnis with hard boatloads, or why there are 8 omnis with rounded loadouts. Loretechnicaly...the Clancommanders bit their forces down to 5 hardhitting boatconfigs. Thats PGIs job to explain.

Ladys and Gents, simply tray not to think in a oneway style on this post, tweakable sure yes needs, but, it opens lot of variations for the game and all of us, so we can feel the difference, to be Mercs out on the Battlefield, or be Clanners maurauding around in hightech omnis, or to feel the difference to be Solaris Gladiators for hard, infight brawls against other Elite brawl Players.

Difference makes long time enjoyment for all of us freaks. We all play, cause we love to play games, and it doesn´t matter how old we all are.

FrostBear

Edited by FrostBear, 26 March 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Quardak]

a perfect plan to balance a lot of issues!

[FrostBear]

Karl Streiger, on 25 March 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

Um...no i don't think so. The AS7-D or the AS7-DDC shouldn't have HE HP in the arms.
With HE in the Arms...you can build a AS7-D similar to a AS7-K.
I mean...if the MechLab changes in this way... my loved founder Atlas need a complete overhall.. because not a single Atlas variantion will allow me to create that load out aggain.

The Dragons - and the idea to mount a Gauss or a Large Laser don't sound like a good idea... but anyhow, call it P2W but lets suggest the Fang could be able to mount a Large Laser in the arm and a Gauss in the other.

What gives me another idea? Should it be possible to swap two smaller hardpoints into a larger one?

To your small hp swap to a big hp swap, i would say, over time, after the change would work out, and enough data is in at PGI HQ on Terra, they can alter around abit, as long they keep the plan. why not.

Edited by FrostBear, 26 March 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[FrostBear]

Quardak, on 26 March 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

a perfect plan to balance a lot of issues!

We all like the game for some own reasons, and all wanna play it, so mwo can be a damn long time in the matrix. And every kind of playerstyle can be supportet, and over time, more and more can come in, that fits into the BT/MW lore, and also PGI has still lot of options to create their own stuff to put in. It opens a way, for all of us, sure there will allways be players never happy, but even they can find parts in the game to have their playstyle.

FrostBear