35 replies to this topic

[Phaesphoros]

... and I predict pro gamers will use it a lot.
No, I'm not trolling. When you have arm lock disabled (i.e. pre march-19th-state), the arm and torso reticle are only aligned on top of each other while not twisting your torso.

I've seen a lot of posts "arm lock is for noobs", but I don't think that is the case. Since you can toggle it (holding down shift) in-game, it is a new feature that cannot be emulated by skill.


Visualization: Arm lock disabled, using a joystick mapped to "torso twist" to achieve constant "torso twisting" speed. These are clips that exclude torso twist acceleration. Note: this has nothing to do with analog turning.

First video: low "torso twisting" speed


Second video: high (but not max) "torso twisting" speed


What I see here is that the torso could move faster in the first video (to catch up with arm reticle) but it does not. Instead, both reticles move at the same speed, keeping the offset between them constant.


Per default, your mouse X axis is mapped to something called "torso twist" that controls both arm and torso movement. For example: you move your mouse at 10 % of max torso twist speed. Then your arm will move to 10 % (some constant percentage) of its max range, until max torso twist range is reached. Since the arm is attached to torso, that means your arm reticle will lead torso movement, so the reticles are not on top of each other.

No, the torso is not too slow to follow the arm movement. You can see that in the two videos above. It's the current implementation of how arm and torso movement are combined w/o arm lock:

InnerSphereNews, on 07 March 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

When the ’Mech’s torso is not currently rotating, the two reticles will align over top of each other and all weapons will fire on the same point. When the player rotates the torso’s pitch or twist, the ’Mech’s arms and their reticle lead the rotation while the slower torso follows. This decouples the two reticles, allowing the arm mounted weapons to fire at a different location than the ones in the torso, head, and legs.

(emphasis mine)


Since I think both modes (arm lock on/off) have unnecessary disadvantages, I've also posted a suggestion how you could combine the advantages.






TL;DR
Top players can benefit from arm lock e.g. if they want to focus fire on a moving target.

Moving target
=> you follow with your reticles using what's called "torso twist" (mouse X axis).

w/o arm lock
=> reticles not aligned during torso twist
=> shoot torso and arm weapons at the same time = hit 2 different locations

w/ arm lock
=> reticles aligned during torso twist
=> shoot torso and arm weapons at the same time = hit the same location

Edited by Phaesphoros, 21 March 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[EmeraldSongbird]

Logic behind this IMO:
Developer 1: "So we have found that everyone loves catapults, so why not make it so every mech fires like it has no arms like a catapult!?"
Developer 2: "Genius!"

I think the idea as a whole is silly. I feel like I am dragging my entire mech when I try to shoot something.

[Mechteric]

Doobles, on 21 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Logic behind this IMO:
Developer 1: "So we have found that everyone loves catapults, so why not make it so every mech fires like it has no arms like a catapult!?"
Developer 2: "Genius!"

I think the idea as a whole is silly. I feel like I am dragging my entire mech when I try to shoot something.

mechwarrior 3, ever played it?

[Roland]

Doobles, on 21 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Logic behind this IMO:
Developer 1: "So we have found that everyone loves catapults, so why not make it so every mech fires like it has no arms like a catapult!?"
Developer 2: "Genius!"

I think the idea as a whole is silly. I feel like I am dragging my entire mech when I try to shoot something.

Uh, but the Catapult has arms. Every mech has arms.

What it lacks is LOWER ARM ACTUATORS.

This means that it can still move its arms independently from the torso, but only up and down, and not left and right.

Locking everything to the torso removes all mobility. This is, in general, not beneficial except to people who don't really understand how to use both reticles.

[MiG77]

IMO locking arms was one of the best features of patch. It actually gives adventage to mech that have fully movings arms (as it should). Full arm coverage is adventage in brawls (You can track faster with arm mounted weapons and cover larger area) and now you can lock them to "sniping mode" and be as good that mech without those.

[Boss Awesome]

How do i turn this arm lock thing off permanently? It's kind of annoying to have to hold shift all the time in order to use my arms, especially when most of my mechs only use arm mounted weapons exclusively.

[Blue Boutique]

There's a check box in the options screen on the lower left.

[Phaesphoros]

Roland, on 21 March 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Locking everything to the torso removes all mobility. This is, in general, not beneficial except to people who don't really understand how to use both reticles.

Yes, it removes 1) additional speed from arm movement and 2) additional arm movement range -- but! you can focus fire on moving targets. That is, target is moving and you follow it using "torso twist": w/o arm lock you cannot align the reticles on top of each other. (Since when you twist, the arm reticle always leads movement.)
Therefore, it is beneficial to people who really understand how to use both reticles, in the case they want to shoot torso and arm weapons at the same spot.

Edited by Phaesphoros, 21 March 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[Stoicblitzer]

I thought arm lock was for new players. how would top players benefit from reduced mobility and precision?

[Vermaxx]

There are two kinds of mechs - real arms and bird arms. Bird arms really don't have functional separate reticles. The movement is very minor, mostly up and down beyond what a mech torso can do. These benefit the most.

Real Arm mechs benefit less, but you can definitely pick up some sweet perks by having all your shart actually hit the same pinpoint regardless of whether you twitch.

[MiG77]

Stoicblitzer, on 21 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I thought arm lock was for new players. how would top players benefit from reduced mobility and precision?

By switching between them as needed (Arm lock is huge benefit while sniping)

[Padic]

I haven't played with it yet, but I'm glad they added it. I merely wish there was a way to configure Shift to toggle the arm lock on-off setting, instead of having to hold it to override the setting.

[3rdworld]

Stoicblitzer, on 21 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I thought arm lock was for new players. how would top players benefit from reduced mobility and precision?

Ya, I don't get why you would want to lock your arms. the amount of times I have used the extra arm twist to shoot a mech my torso cannot reach are innumerable.

[Gaan Cathal]

Doobles, on 21 March 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

Logic behind this IMO:
Developer 1: "So we have found that everyone loves catapults, so why not make it so every mech fires like it has no arms like a catapult!?"
Developer 2: "Genius!"

I think the idea as a whole is silly. I feel like I am dragging my entire mech when I try to shoot something.

So either:

a: uncheck the option
or
b: hold down shift to move arms

Roland, on 21 March 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Locking everything to the torso removes all mobility. This is, in general, not beneficial except to people who don't really understand how to use both reticles.

This would be true if it wasn't a toggle. With it being a toggle, you're not restricted to only using one reticule at all, since you can just put your pinky on shift and hey presto. What it does allow you to do is concentrate fire from similar weapons that are mounted both in the torso and arms, thus normalising those mechs that have these hardpoints against those with more advantageous loadouts slightly. The Dragons, for example, won't have to split their laser fire over two volleys needlessly.

TL:DR It doesn't remove anything, it just adds the ability to move your torso and keep both reticules on target at the same time.

3rdworld, on 21 March 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Ya, I don't get why you would want to lock your arms. the amount of times I have used the extra arm twist to shoot a mech my torso cannot reach are innumerable.

Because having Arm Lock enabled doesn't stop you having that extra arm twist. It just requires a (remappable) button to be held down while you do it.

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 21 March 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Vermaxx]

Padic, on 21 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

I haven't played with it yet, but I'm glad they added it. I merely wish there was a way to configure Shift to toggle the arm lock on-off setting, instead of having to hold it to override the setting.

This is what I wanted, permanent instead of momentary. Apparently another thing we need to macro into our op keyboard/mice instead of PGI doing it for everyone and leveling the playing field.

[Phaesphoros]

Stoicblitzer, on 21 March 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I thought arm lock was for new players. how would top players benefit from reduced mobility and precision?

Help! Anyone please PM me if you know how to explain this more clearly.

I'll try again:
Top players can benefit from arm lock e.g. if they want to focus fire on a moving target.

Moving target
=> you follow with your reticles using what's called "torso twist" (mouse X axis).

w/o arm lock
=> reticles not aligned during torso twist
=> shoot torso and arm weapons at the same time = hit 2 different locations

w/ arm lock
=> reticles aligned during torso twist
=> shoot torso and arm weapons at the same time = hit the same location

[Zypher]

Arm lock gimps certain mechs like the Atlas K and the Hunchback 4SP. So yes it can make things harder for experienced players. However, for newer players, it's a good way to start, I remember seen a ton of newbies having issues dealing with dual reticules.

I think it's great for newer players...

[Padic]

Vermaxx, on 21 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

This is what I wanted, permanent instead of momentary. Apparently another thing we need to macro into our op keyboard/mice instead of PGI doing it for everyone and leveling the playing field.

I'm sure they'll add it eventually. I've always been one to configure everything to "toggle" instead of "hold to" when I'm allowed. I have no interest in "holding to aim" or "holding to crouch" or "holding to zoom". So far, most of our options have been toggles. I'm sure this one won't remain an exception.

[von Pilsner]

Turned it off by default and then set a key to toggle it on and off in-game.
Loving it so far (barely use it, but came in handy in a few builds).

[Zypher]

Vermaxx, on 21 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

This is what I wanted, permanent instead of momentary. Apparently another thing we need to macro into our op keyboard/mice instead of PGI doing it for everyone and leveling the playing field.

This ^

I already have enough keys to keep track of, I don't need another one that I have to hold down. Some keyboards crap out with more than three keys depressed at one time.