44 replies to this topic

[Viper69]

I do just fine without coolant because I have learned to not need it.

[Vassago Rain]

Josef Nader, on 21 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

You're spending money on a crutch. One time use cooldowns won't save you from a badly designed mech or poor heat management skills.

It's not a crutch.
It lets me fire another 1-3 times, which means you're gonna lose to me, unless you also brought it, making it a mandatory item.

You need to stop pretending this is something that 'crutches' bad players, or 'makes high heat builds more viable.' It's a power item that gives good players extra mana, and lets them go from blowing up their own atlas and yours with override, to ruining your atlas, taking minimal damage to theirs, and take 50% off your buddy's life, too.

[Belorion]

3rdworld, on 21 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

That's a cool story and all. But I never posted any idea on balance. Only the fact that the games balance is bad.

And I think the games balance is good. To ourselves each of is right, to the other wrong, and no one else cares what either one of us thinks about balance, only what they themselves believe.

[Royalewithcheese]

Huntsman, on 21 March 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Even if you're rolling around with excellent heat efficiency, coolant makes a decisive difference in an extended skirmish, or on hot maps. It will also make a marginally heat efficient build that puts out more damage a far more viable choic

A "marginally heat efficient" build that's non-viable without coolant flush is going to be non-viable with coolant flush, because if you're doing it right, your robot is going to be in more than one fight per match.

[verybad]

I'm really not worried about people using coolant to win games. A one or two use thing that might get you one mroe alpha...

It's just not a scary thing. It's a tool, and it can be useful, but it's not OP. *shrugs* I might buy it once or twice for kicks, but I don't see a huge need for it.

Airstrikes and Artillery might be more scary, thoguh we'll see.

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's not a crutch.
It lets me fire another 1-3 times, which means you're gonna lose to me, unless you also brought it, making it a mandatory item.

You need to stop pretending this is something that 'crutches' bad players, or 'makes high heat builds more viable.' It's a power item that gives good players extra mana, and lets them go from blowing up their own atlas and yours with override, to ruining your atlas, taking minimal damage to theirs, and take 50% off your buddy's life, too.

If you hit, and if you kill with those hits, and if the target doesnt get behind cover during you short advantage, and if the fight started out even to begin with, and if it's one on one.

Sure it'll give good players an advantage, mana as you say, but it's not much mana.

They might also waste that coolant to finish off a bad player that they thought was a threat at that time (eg me) and end up shutting down while a good player finishes them off.

I'm simply not scared of it.

Edited by verybad, 21 March 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

Huntsman, on 21 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

This patch, from coolant to the arm lock, has done nothing but cater to new players who constantly shut down or don't know how to aim.

arm lock has its uses in ranges fighting (to a degree it lets me lower my mouse sensitivity) and the coolant flush doesn't help anyone its a newbie cash trap

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

It's a not very sublte return to RnR, and if you don't purchase this, you're gonna lose to people who do.

100% guaranteed. That's all that matters, and whether or not you agree is of no concern, either. This is what it is, and this is what it's gonna do to the game. If you want it to change, you're gonna have to bring it up with Paul.

going to lose to people who do? I don't think so. I haven't touched them (other than once to see what the hubbub was about) and have had no problems killing people using the flush (thermal showed them going from red hot down to green on river city night)

Edited by Omni 13, 21 March 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[BoPop]

gawd i'm bored.

[OneEyed Jack]

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

It's a not very sublte return to RnR, and if you don't purchase this, you're gonna lose to people who do.

100% guaranteed. That's all that matters, and whether or not you agree is of no concern, either. This is what it is, and this is what it's gonna do to the game. If you want it to change, you're gonna have to bring it up with Paul.

Does your ego have no limits?

It's what you say because you say it, and that makes it fact regardless of actual facts and no one else's opinion counts?

You are wrong, and that's all that matters. And whether you agree or not is of no concern. Your guarantee isn't worth what I scraped off my shoe, earlier.

[Bakamoichigei]

50k C-Bills for coolant isn't a big deal. The way I figure, if you're in a situation where you have to blow all that, you either suck or you're in a big hairy mess and/or putting some serious hurt on the enemy, and then it pays for itself.

I was involved in a great urban brawl on patch day, and coolant dumping made it quite a bit more spectacular...though I pretty much immediately stopped using it after a couple matches, when I realized it didn't actually seem to do much.

I also don't see what's wrong with Arm Lock: 1. It's optional. 2. It's not just for noobs; it really helps some builds. 3. It's optional.

If you want to complain about the patch, how about the fact that they claimed to make some nice changes to how controls work, yet there's still no way to adjust joystick sensitivity and deadzone without editing a config file they apparently can't be bothered to clearly explain how to re-jigger. Is a sensitivity slider really that hard?

Granted, I am GRATEFUL ALMOST BEYOND WORDS that they finally made it possible to change control settings while in-game. Because that was just absurd. It was right up there with the non-existence of a testing grounds on the "Are you frackin' kidding me?!" list. And I've got a great story about that...

I made the mistake of trying to use rudder controls for turning-- not knowing that turning was digital-only at the time --only to find out that at physical Center it caused my 'Mech to make a continuous 20% right turn. Which was the best thing EVER to find out in an actual game, with no way to change it. So I unplugged the USB cable... The turn rate held. Fan-friggin'-tastic! Thinking fast, I plugged it back in, compensated with the rudder to null the turn, THEN unplugged it. (And proceeded to get 3 kills when I caught up to the action.)

On an unrelated note, does anyone know what happened to the "Targeted." warning? I much preferred THAT to having the same information conveyed by the impact of several simultaneous PPC blasts and/or gauss slugs.

[Josef Nader]

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's not a crutch.
It lets me fire another 1-3 times, which means you're gonna lose to me, unless you also brought it, making it a mandatory item.

You need to stop pretending this is something that 'crutches' bad players, or 'makes high heat builds more viable.' It's a power item that gives good players extra mana, and lets them go from blowing up their own atlas and yours with override, to ruining your atlas, taking minimal damage to theirs, and take 50% off your buddy's life, too.

Or you can build a mech properly that doesn't have to worry about overheating, or learn to carefully manage your heat, and then you can pack something useful into that slot.

[Bilbo]

Bakamoichigei, on 21 March 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

....On an unrelated note, does anyone know what happened to the "Targeted." warning? I much preferred THAT to having the same information conveyed by the impact of several simultaneous PPC blasts and/or gauss slugs.

You are assuming that you were actually targeted. More likely they were sniping from beyond sensor range and on thermal vision.

[Bakamoichigei]

Bilbo, on 21 March 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

You are assuming that you were actually targeted. More likely they were sniping from beyond sensor range and on thermal vision.

Obviously, but I went from hearing it semi-regularly EVERY match, to hearing it NEVER. I haven't heard it once, at the very least since the patch. And I'd have to have been targeted at least occasionally, because I've been spotted for LRMs and whatnot. I'm just saying, I didn't see anything in the patch notes about them removing that feature, so I'm curious what happened to it.

[Chemistry Warden]

Yeah, I think I'll do like I did during RnR and run a "non-optimized" build and not use coolant flush, just like I didn't use XL engines or FF/Endo during RnR.

[jakucha]

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's not a crutch.
It lets me fire another 1-3 times, which means you're gonna lose to me, unless you also brought it, making it a mandatory item.

You need to stop pretending this is something that 'crutches' bad players, or 'makes high heat builds more viable.' It's a power item that gives good players extra mana, and lets them go from blowing up their own atlas and yours with override, to ruining your atlas, taking minimal damage to theirs, and take 50% off your buddy's life, too.

The guy who gets it totally wrong over a vague twitter post and panics over pure speculation. Not really worth listening to after that.

Edited by jakucha, 21 March 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Vassago Rain, on 21 March 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

It's not a crutch.
It lets me fire another 1-3 times, which means you're gonna lose to me, unless you also brought it, making it a mandatory item.

You need to stop pretending this is something that 'crutches' bad players, or 'makes high heat builds more viable.' It's a power item that gives good players extra mana, and lets them go from blowing up their own atlas and yours with override, to ruining your atlas, taking minimal damage to theirs, and take 50% off your buddy's life, too.

Your flawed assumption is that carrying extra tonnage in weapons and burning a module slot (or two) so that once a match can can get an extra couple shots and possibly defeat a single opponent is more beneficial than building a heat efficient mech and selecting goal specific modules.

Coolant isn't ECM, it doesn't make everything better automatically, it comes at a significant opportunity cost.

[3rdworld]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 March 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

Coolant isn't ECM, it doesn't make everything better automatically, it comes at a significant opportunity cost.

What?

Modules have the least amount of oppertunity cost of any item because you sacrifice nothing to equip them (other than the possibility of different modules).

And you also assume that by using these modules I am going to create some horribly inefficient monster. What if I use a fairly efficient mech, with the coolants I basically remove heat management from my concern.

[XIRUSPHERE]

Id like a graphical representation for coolant use to be introduced, perhaps a brief cloud of steam emanating from the hulk of the mech. Just so I can ask other pilots if the c-bills were worth still dying.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

3rdworld, on 21 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

What?

Modules have the least amount of oppertunity cost of any item because you sacrifice nothing to equip them (other than the possibility of different modules).

And you also assume that by using these modules I am going to create some horribly inefficient monster. What if I use a fairly efficient mech, with the coolants I basically remove heat management from my concern.

I suppose it depends on your chasiss and build, as to how many modules slots you receive and need. If you build a fairly heat efficient mech, then you probably wont need or use a cooling module most of the time, so it is a waste of a module slot (or two). However I supsect that some people will build around a coolant module and will carry extra medium or small lasers just waiting for the opportunity to use them with a coolant boost.

So now you are looking at 3-4 tons of weapons (and critical slots) plus 1-2 modules slots. And all for the opportunity to unload once a match on a single opponent.

Personally I'd rather use those module slots for other modules and the extra tonnage to balance my weapons and heatsinks for the entire engagement.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

verybad, on 21 March 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

I mish RnR tremendously personally. Made things like running an XL engine a bit mroe risky, I never lost money on a game during that *shrugs* Having to worry about your bottom dollar made the game more interesting.

So don't introduce RnR until you've completed your first 25 games and are no longer a "Cadet". It should be in when the game gets closer to "release" as its absence does somewhat make sense in a "Beta" once they had the data.

[3rdworld]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 March 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

I suppose it depends on your chasiss and build, as to how many modules slots you receive and need. If you build a fairly heat efficient mech, then you probably wont need or use a cooling module most of the time, so it is a waste of a module slot (or two). However I supsect that some people will build around a coolant module and will carry extra medium or small lasers just waiting for the opportunity to use them with a coolant boost.

So now you are looking at 3-4 tons of weapons (and critical slots) plus 1-2 modules slots. And all for the opportunity to unload once a match on a single opponent.

Personally I'd rather use those module slots for other modules and the extra tonnage to balance my weapons and heatsinks for the entire engagement.

Like what module?

I find all of them completely lackluster and usually unneeded. Adv sensor range isn't terrible but most of the others....

Granted I generally run a poptart (the 2 regular ppc variety) which is pretty efficient, but will overheat in a brawl. These extend how long I can fire my PPCs by 2-3 shots in a brawl, so they are by far the most powerful module I could bring. read:I run a poptart when not leveling some terrible mech

Edited by 3rdworld, 21 March 2013 - 01:24 PM.