2002 replies to this topic

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

My tuppence, for what it is worth.

The way 3rd person view (3PV) is implemented in Battlefield 3 for vehicles in "normal mode" ("hardcore" mode doesn't allow it) seems to work well. The camera is fixed behind and slightly above the vehicle looking in the direction of the turret. The weapon crosshairs for the main weapon is larger making firing it accurately much more difficult. You lose HUD information such as the compass and waypoints, and you cannot make use of "vision modes", like thermal optics, but you continue to be able to see the minimap and an overall damage indicator (not a specific armour diagram).

3PV in BF3 is best used for high speed maneuvering, not for shooting, primarily because of the loss of the accurate cross-hairs. There is an advantage to being able to see around corners and over obstacles - and advantage that the best players will likely take advantage of. In BF3, I pop into and out of 3PV when required.

I would enjoy 3PV personally - being able to appreciate the expensive paint scheme and weapon effects in all their glory. My roots are in simulation and this breaks the fourth wall. It does make for a very different game experience and no-one much likes change. I understand that sometimes my favourite band has to change things up to reach a new audience - and may leave old school players behind. If you can cater for both communities, that would seem the best - but that will dilute your resources, including fragmenting the regular playing base - a problem you are clearly aware of.

So if you do implement a "normal" mode with 3PV available to all, and a "sim/hardcore" mode for MW, the tricky bit is to work out what to do about community warfare. I don't know a huge amount about CW, but you've posted about players controlling "fronts", the control of which gives your faction some kind of buff. You could create hardcore fronts that can only be controlled and attacked by people in "Sim" mode. Perhaps you could make these fronts more valuable to the controlling faction by tying control of the front to the best of the team buffs that you gain as the owner? Perhaps these planets are the most strategically important - or have the most extreme environments? Whatever it is, it is a two-tier strategic game environment.

That's pretty much what I have to say. I hope this was constructive.

[Intruder]

This can't come soon enough for me.

I want to play MECHWarrior Online not MechWarrior Cockpit-View Only Online.

It also looks to me like the Devs have considered the opposition to the idea and have good ideas how to deal with that: if the elitists want to fight 1stPV vs 1stPV only then they will have that option.

Call me a "n00b" as much as you like, I simply can't have much fun in MWO as it stands.
What's the point of all the Mech customization, camo and the like if you can't see your own Mech.

It worked brilliantly with World of Tanks so my comment is that I hope if follows the same line:

Targeting reticles visible in 3PV with the Shift key instantly shifting between 3rd and 1st for zooming and the like.

[Barghest Whelp]

Mystere, on 20 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

But here's the rub, and you're going to dislike me (even more?) for saying so: I agree with PGI.

Who said anything about dislike?

I do feel sorry for you though...

Intruder, on 25 April 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

This can't come soon enough for me.

I want to play MECHWarrior Online not MechWarrior Cockpit-View Only Online.

It also looks to me like the Devs have considered the opposition to the idea and have good ideas how to deal with that: if the elitists want to fight 1stPV vs 1stPV only then they will have that option.

Call me a "n00b" as much as you like, I simply can't have much fun in MWO as it stands.
What's the point of all the Mech customization, camo and the like if you can't see your own Mech.

It worked brilliantly with World of Tanks so my comment is that I hope if follows the same line:

Targeting reticles visible in 3PV with the Shift key instantly shifting between 3rd and 1st for zooming and the like.

Yes, here the catch though. A mechwarrior actually pilots a mech. In order to do so, he/she actually needs to sit inside said mech. That kind of limits the ability to see your mech from the outside during combat. Unless you shut down said mech.

This is mechwarrior, not "remote controlled giant mecha controlled by some nerd in a cage via stelite uplink".

Call me a nerd, but I just can't enjoy any multiplayer mechwarrior game with 3PV enabled.

Edited by Barghest Whelp, 25 April 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Sir Fuzzy]

I used to not care either way about 3PV (as I stated waaaay back in this thread) but after reading through a huge amount of this thread I have to say:

I'm all for it!

As the past has shown, it is rarely a good idea to cater to the elitists if you want to make money. The masses are where it's at.... and more money = more experienced staff members + more working hours + better tools = better game.

For every "I want a mech simulator or I quit" elitist you will gain 10 random sheeple who don't care about Mechwarrior or Battletech but think it's pretty cool to kill people in a giant robot with lazorzzz.

Since the community is already filled with griefers and whiners it won't make any difference in game other than to help PGI make the game bigger and better with more money.

As an online gamer I am well versed in the art of completely ignoring in-game chat and thus will be well prepared for the mass of pre-pubescents and unwashed WoW fanatics playing something else while their servers are down.

[Sean von Steinike]

Intruder, on 25 April 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

This can't come soon enough for me.

I want to play MECHWarrior Online not MechWarrior Cockpit-View Only Online.

It also looks to me like the Devs have considered the opposition to the idea and have good ideas how to deal with that: if the elitists want to fight 1stPV vs 1stPV only then they will have that option.

Call me a "n00b" as much as you like, I simply can't have much fun in MWO as it stands.
What's the point of all the Mech customization, camo and the like if you can't see your own Mech.

It worked brilliantly with World of Tanks so my comment is that I hope if follows the same line:

Targeting reticles visible in 3PV with the Shift key instantly shifting between 3rd and 1st for zooming and the like.

You can see your own mech. Unless you are just stupid you can see it in your mech bay just fine. Mechwarriors pilot from the cockpit, not with a remote control floating around the mech. But then, the whole reason they are putting it in is to cater to the stupid that can't figure out torso twist.

Edited by Sean von Steinike, 25 April 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[blood4blood]

Unless one or more Battletech purists want to front the real-world cash personally to keep PGI running for a few years, I have to favor implementing 3PV to attract the widest possible audience.

As for implementation, I'd just make sure maintaining graphics quality and game performance are the top priorities. After that, I would probably favor a simple top-down from behind style camera view for 3P, as it is the most common I've seen in other games and so the most likely to seem familiar to new players. If it can be used to look over walls and around corners like it could in MW4, I don't see that as a problem to be honest. It happens in just about every game with 3PV, and since everyone can do it, it does not create any unfair advantages. Since the original post in this thread states there would be separate 1PV-only and 3PV-only, I don't see why any BT purists would object either - they can just set their game mode to 1PV or FFP or whatever it's going to be called.

[Barghest Whelp]

Sir Fuzzy, on 25 April 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

I used to not care either way about 3PV (as I stated waaaay back in this thread) but after reading through a huge amount of this thread I have to say:

I'm all for it!

As the past has shown, it is rarely a good idea to cater to the elitists if you want to make money. The masses are where it's at.... and more money = more experienced staff members + more working hours + better tools = better game.

For every "I want a mech simulator or I quit" elitist you will gain 10 random sheeple who don't care about Mechwarrior or Battletech but think it's pretty cool to kill people in a giant robot with lazorzzz.

Since the community is already filled with griefers and whiners it won't make any difference in game other than to help PGI make the game bigger and better with more money.

As an online gamer I am well versed in the art of completely ignoring in-game chat and thus will be well prepared for the mass of pre-pubescents and unwashed WoW fanatics playing something else while their servers are down.

Firstly, EVE online is proof that you're wrong. It's the only subscription based game that has continued to grow through it's entire lifespan, and on top of that, it's also one of the oldest MMO's that's still around. They're celebrating their 10th anniversary this year, and have reached a new all time high 500.000 active subscriptions. Goes to show that if you dare, you will get there eventually.

Secondly, no. BT/MW never has, and never will appeal to the masses. Besides that, they can never hope to compete with Hawken. Hawken has way more to offer in terms of stability and performance (smart move choosing unreal engine instead of omgimgonna cry engine) as well as game modes, and easy access. Hell, it even has bling. In fact, even I kinda like it. It's actually a fun game, but not a mechwarrior game.

That's the only edge MWO has: the BT name and mechanics. Without the hard core fans and BT nerds, this product will never succed. Just look at what happened when Microsoft tried to commercialize the BT franchise. Nobody wanted to touch the IP with a ten foot pole for 12 years. If that doesn't proove that it's a niche product that needs to cater to it's niche fanbase, then I don't know what will.

Trust me, those WoW'ers will not come to MWO. IF they decide to go for a mech shooter, they will be going to Hawken if anything, but more likely Armored core or somthing similar.

[Smegmw]

For the love of all that's holy don't make that crap third person view default like the gas pedal throttle garbage.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Well; since they archived all the gendisc stuff, that means theyve killed all the polls about this topic.

[LockeJaw]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 26 April 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

Well; since they archived all the gendisc stuff, that means theyve killed all the polls about this topic.

Now they can claim that there was an overwhelming number of people who supported it! Just like the overwhelming polls they totally didn't delete/jetcom/k-town re: Gendisc.

[Randalf Yorgen]

It's loose loose for PGI at this point.

If that bring it in they will loose a good chunk of the fan base they already have with only the "HOPES" that more people will come in to replace what they lost (and that those new people stick around and fork out money)

If they don't bring it in they will turn away a possible gain in playerbase but most likely retain what they already have.

For PGI it's now "The Devil you know VS the Devil you don't" There have been some good suggestions made that would severely mitigate the impact 3rdPV would have on the game and playerbase. My favorite is 3rdPV only in Arenas where you would expect to see it and it allows for a 3rdPV ranking system and a teer leveling system from new guy to elitest and it would provide a place where new players could try out the game. The ball is now in PGI's hands, they asked for suggestions, they got them, now it's up to them to choose wisely or have it fall to pieces on them.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Obligatory monthly anti Third-Person post.

[pencilboom]

this is pretty good I would say. Hurry up and release this for the Training Ground so we can test it out!

[Barghest Whelp]

mwhighlander, on 26 April 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Obligatory monthly anti Third-Person post.

I fully endorse this product and/or service.

Would read again. Would recommend to a friend. 11/10

[Hellcat420]

how can this be a mech simulation and have 3rd person view? when your piloting a mech your head does not float above and behind your mech.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

3rd person, wow how freakin stupid! Bryan you are definitely on my list of village idiots for this one. How should you implement it, simple No 3rd person players in non 3rd person matches. I don't want them in my matches, I'm sure nobody who's played MW since its beginning will want it either. It's dumb, it's not right, and again proves you are not honorable and will do the opposite for the greed of a dollar.

[rollermint]

I think you can only safely include 3rd person as a training/familiarisation mode for new players.

CW must remain a strictly first person affair.

While im sure that the numbers WoT has is very very alluring, i would also like to point out that EVE grew stronger because it remains focused on a niche demographics and remained stoic to its so called "hardcore" roots. They didnt try to Tempt your typical fantasy mmo gamer, they only attempt to only improve their universe as that unforgiving unrelenting universe that seems to do everything to drive the casual mmo gamers away. Wile many might claim this is suicide, EVE has not only proven them wrong again and again but im convinced that they will outlast WoW as the only sub-based mmo that is still steadily growing.

I know that you are looking for feedbacks on how to safely implement 3rd person but many of us here are saying that you should stick to your original visions and promises and continue to slowly but steadily build a niche yet healthy and strong playerbase. Catering to the fickle casual masses might promise a huge but brief spike in ur income. Yet so many wow clones has already failed.

[Terran123rd]

rollermint, on 27 April 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

CW must remain a strictly first person affair.

Though I'm a full supporter of the decision to include 3rd person, I also fully agree with this. CW is the hardcore "core" if you will, and should most definitely stay that way, including a full retention of the so-called "simulator elements".

The more casual shoot-em-up side of the game that we're experiencing now (i.e., the current system of pick-up matches), however, is another matter. Forgetting about my own opinions for the second, anything that makes that experience more friendly for the casual gamer (I believe we can all agree that we/they are here to stay) can't be entirely bad. If third-person encourages a few more people buy skins and paints, the better funded PGI will be and the better the game will be because of it.

The game can, and should be able to, cater to both markets.

Edited by Terran123rd, 27 April 2013 - 09:52 PM.

[EvilCow]

I fully support 3PV if implemented correctly: in another game.

Call it mechassaulthellokittyonline and offer it as alternative to MWO.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

LockeJaw, on 26 April 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

Now they can claim that there was an overwhelming number of people who supported it! Just like the overwhelming polls they totally didn't delete/jetcom/k-town re: Gendisc.

lol wasnt it Zerofaust that made the 3rd person poll then switched the yes/no positions so it looked like the yes was winning instead of the no? lol

Werewolf486, on 27 April 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

3rd person, wow how freakin stupid! Bryan you are definitely on my list of village idiots for this one. How should you implement it, simple No 3rd person players in non 3rd person matches. I don't want them in my matches, I'm sure nobody who's played MW since its beginning will want it either. It's dumb, it's not right, and again proves you are not honorable and will do the opposite for the greed of a dollar.

Remember:

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

This thread is not about whether or not 3rd person should it exist. Rather, we want your feedback on how it should be implemented. Understand we're not debating the merits of having 3rd person or not.

Reply number 4 in the entire thread.
Its NOT about IF, or WHETHER we want it, we're getting it, and we better like it.