2002 replies to this topic

[xengk]

I gave up reading after 20 pages, and just gonna chuck my idea here.

Make 1PV and 3PV useful for different situations.

Currently 1PV tunnels the player's vision forward with virtually limitless range, with HUD to display damage direction.
This mode is more suited for snipers, alpha build but not brawler.

Make it so that 3PV benefits brawler but not sniper.
Remove damage direction, from this mode and let player depend on visuals. i:e angle of the incoming shots or missile.

The view range need also be to shorten.
They still benefit from having a view of their sides and "rear view mirror", but cannot maximize the use of long range weapon such as PPC, Gauss, LL/ERLL and LRM.
They can still lock on target shared by their teammates beyond their view range, with an indicator pointing to the direction of the target.

Here are some suggestion for view range.

Edited by xengk, 06 June 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[Razgal]

This goes out to those that are raging against the 3rd person view.

Um guys you do know that they did say that you don't have to play with the 3rd person people. So I fail to understand why you guys are making a big deal out of this.

Edited by Razgal, 07 June 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Tvae]

Razgal, on 07 June 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

This goes out to those that are raging against the 3rd person view.

Um guys you do know that they did say that you don't have to play with the 3rd person people. So I fail to understand why you guys are making a big deal out of this.

Mainly because they originally stated that they weren't going to add it and never would, and then just a short time later announced they were going to anyways. In protest, a poll on the forums resulted in a vast majority (well over 90%) of voters stating that they did NOT want third person, and that it would be a waste of development time, yet they didn't listen and are implementing it anyways.

It's not that there aren't any ways to implement it properly (see my last post 3 or 4 above, and that's just a possible idea), it's just a waste of time and resources at the current moment since almost no one wants it (and most of the ways in which it could be properly implemented aren't even viable, since they're based off systems of matchmaking MWO currently does not support).

Edited by Tvae, 07 June 2013 - 06:44 AM.

[DeaconW]

I think they should leave the 3PV implemented as it is now....IN THE MECHLAB!

[Tvae]

Thontor, on 07 June 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I dare you to find a quote from the devs saying they never would implement 3rd person

it doesnt exist.

I haven't looked too hard, and I think even farther back there was a time where one of the devs actually flat out denied it, but:

http://mwomercs.com/...evs-25-answers/

http://mwomercs.com/...is-when-needed/

Both of those indicate that they had no intention of adding it any time soon, then less than a month after that second one they were talking about it as if it was an almost certainty (instead of just casually investigating the concept for farther off down the road). And to be fair, I doubt many players would have an issue if, in a year or two, they add it as a background option for custom matches. The game just isn't ready for it as an option; either it will break the balance of the game, or it will break the playerbase.

Edited by Tvae, 07 June 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[seymourbalzac]

3rd person gives and unfair advantage over 1st person and seeing as this game is meant to be a 1st person game, I would say the only acceptable place for 3rd person in this game would be some tutorial where it helps new players understand how your mech moves. Myself and many other people learnt and play this game no problem with only 1st person so I don't see why bringing out 3rd person is so high up on the list when you should be worried more about things like CW, balance, bugs, mechs, maps, etc.

[Tvae]

Thontor, on 07 June 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

so, as i suspected, you couldn't find a quote saying they would never implement it

fact is, it's always been a possibility.. even back in July of last year they said they would be investigating it. and in November they said they were looking at it but had not made a decision yet.

I found those two quotes within 5 minutes of searching. If I had hours of free time to scour every corner of the old forums I'm sure I could find the post I was recalling, but I don't have those hours, so you'll just have to live with it.

(One of the devs has notably always been against 3rd person, though I don't recall which. I think it was that dev who said the quote as a quick response to someone who was begging for 3rd person mode; in retrospect, it's entirely possible he was being facetious about it, as the topic had not yet exploded like it did soon after.)

The issue isn't the fact third person is being added (though many people seem to argue that it is), it's a fear of it being added in a way that is hazardous to the game. All the old PGI posts at least pointed to approaching the topic cautiously, but the more the concept comes up, the less they appear to have that old cautious attitude.

Edited by Tvae, 07 June 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Prosperity Park, on 04 June 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

So, my wife of all people came up with this idea, which may have already been presented in the thread:

Since 1st person view does not add any bonuses to play, but 3rd person does include situational-awareness bonuses, then we can say that games should be divided into 2 categories -> 1st person only, and 1st/3rd person mixed games; there is no need to create a 3rd-person-only gametype (nobody should complain about 1st-person-players crashing their 3rd-person-party, so there is no need for a 3rd-person-only environment at all).

The Mercenary side of combat can be handled as follows: If a Mercenary Company already controls a planet, then the Current Planet Holders can decide if any challenging invaders will have to play as either 1st person, or mixed 1st/3rd person. That way, if a Group of Sim-fans want their 1st-person-only gametype, then they can enforce it as long as they can hold their territory, and anyone who wants to attack that particular planet will have to play in 1st person. If a planetary Holder wants to play in 3rd person, then they can force the invaders to abide by a mixed 3rd/1st person gametype. I call it the "Home Team Decision."

I don't know enough about the way House/Faction Warfare will be handled to comment on it, though.

This is an option, but it directly goes against the very first post in this thread.

Quote

Players will never be forced to use or play against other players using 3rd person.

If the defender were to choose 3PV, that forces the team to face it.

[Jestun]

Shumabot, on 21 March 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I asked this a bit ago, but you might not have seen it. What is your plan to avoid playerbase fragmentation? Do you think that a full release population boom would be able to absorb the issue, keeping in mind that you're also planning on splitting up regional servers?

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

This is one of our largest concerns. In fact, it's one of the reasons we don't just jam in more game modes. Yes, a theoretical boom would help ease a transition, but we're not going to rely on that to solve this issue. We are still formulating a plan. I don't have a complete answer for you at this time.

Was there ever any update on this (I'm not re-reading the entire thread!)?

You hope to limit the effect this has in fragmenting the playerbase are not relying on new players coming in for that. I'd be interested in knowing how you hope to achieve this.

:edit:

Included the post Bryan was responding to.

Edited by Jestun, 07 June 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Jestun]

Thontor, on 07 June 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

nope because the attacker can choose not to attack that planet, they aren't forced to attack

By the same logic they could just scrap the separate queues and when you drop with 3rd person people say "you're not forced to play with them, you can press escape and leave the match".

[RocketmanZero]

I think regardless of whether or not its going to happen my one main concern is the player base being segregated into people that only play 3rd or 1st person essentially creating two entirely different sub sets of players that will never compete with each other....

If this was a game with a player base numbering close to communities like counter strike, tf2, or wow I would be ok with that but I'm not confident enough people regularly play this game to support modes like only 3rd vs 3rd and 1st vs 1st views IMHO.

[Tvae]

Thontor, on 07 June 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

I don't know how you can say they aren't being cautious

I misspoke. For the most part, they do seem to be approaching this topic sensitively, or at least as sensitively as can be managed. However, the old posts do speak about how they wouldn't even consider it until after launch, and it being pushed up to months before launch does indicate some degree of it being pushed forward (even if it really isn't rushed, it does slightly feel that way). It's this speed up that makes it feel like they're being less cautious; I can only hope that they are actually treating this issue as delicately as seems needed (given how much it being introduced even slightly wrong could explode in their faces).

[Razgal]

People It's already been stated that you do have to play with 3rd person players. If people want to play 3rd person mode who are you to say no to them?

Back in MW4 people had the option to switch between either mode and its always been player preference. If your a good mech pilot it should not make a difference.

[Jestun]

Razgal, on 07 June 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

People It's already been stated that you do have to play with 3rd person players. If people want to play 3rd person mode who are you to say no to them?

Back in MW4 people had the option to switch between either mode and its always been player preference. If your a good mech pilot it should not make a difference.

As has been stated multiple times in this thread, and acknowledged by Bryan, there are concerns over it splitting the playerbase.

Lets see... we don't know how CW is going to work so I'll just split that 2 ways (1st & 3rd, based on the assumption that the OP is accurate and they will not play together - there's every chance we will get another "That was our position at the time"):

PUG - Conquest - 1st person
PUG - Conquest - 3rd person
PUG - Assault - 1st person
PUG - Assault- 3rd person
Pre-made - Conquest - 1st person
Pre-made - Conquest- 3rd person
Pre-made - Assault- 1st person
Pre-made - Assault - 3rd person
Community warfare - 3rd person
Community warfare - 1st person


10 queues. For a single region (it's confirmed that accounts or queues will be split by region)

So assuming just NA and EU (which is very limited coverage) that's 20 different queues.

Edited by Jestun, 07 June 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[Edson Drake]

I said before, I don't mind 3rd person, but...

The player base they want to attract(COD, Crysis, Battlefield and WoT) isn't the kind of players that will stay. They're the ones that will play this for about a week and never come back.
As a niche game, only Mechwarrior fans stay. Sure some here and there will like the game and stay, but it isn't 3rd person that is going to change their minds.

[Gremlich Johns]

Edson Drake, on 07 June 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

I said before, I don't mind 3rd person, but...

The player base they want to attract(COD, Crysis, Battlefield and WoT) isn't the kind of players that will stay. They're the ones that will play this for about a week and never come back.
As a niche game, only Mechwarrior fans stay. Sure some here and there will like the game and stay, but it isn't 3rd person that is going to change their minds.

Seyla

[Kaeb Odellas]

Make 3rd person Training Grounds and private games only.

It would actually be very good for making videos with.

[w0rm]

Kaeb Odellas, on 09 June 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

Make 3rd person Training Grounds and private games only.

It would actually be very good for making videos with.

This is acutally a pretty good idea.

[Pando]

I would like to;

have the option to play with my friends who enjoy 1st person view and 3rd person view equally.
have the ability to play with my friends who enjoy 1st person view and 3rd person view in community warfare.
have the option to play against and as 1st person only in community warfare.
have the option to play against and as 3rd person only in community warfare.
have the option to create a private game and stipulate 3rd, 1st or mixed as a variable option of that game.
be able to toggle 3rd person view in testing grounds.
have the camera offset to the left or right optionally, tied to the torso movement.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

Pando, on 09 June 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

I would like to;

have the option to play with my friends who enjoy 1st person view and 3rd person view equally.
have the ability to play with my friends who enjoy 1st person view and 3rd person view in community warfare.
have the option to play against and as 1st person only in community warfare.
have the option to play against and as 3rd person only in community warfare.
have the option to create a private game and stipulate 3rd, 1st or mixed as a variable option of that game.
be able to toggle 3rd person view in testing grounds.
have the camera offset to the left or right optionally, tied to the torso movement.

so u want play 4 to 5 different games? why no? do it! hope they wont be called MWO

Edited by BigMekkUrDakka, 09 June 2013 - 08:10 AM.