2002 replies to this topic

[Mr Blonde]

Elbola Ierocis, on 02 July 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Would adding TPV players really be adding to the player base if they are seperate from the exisiting player base? I understand it would add more revenue. More likely though, you then have to run two games instead of one. You'll need more staff to handle all the TPV game issues: Camera clipping through objects to see through things, and other general game mechanics created by the entirely different game play concept.

If you want to increase playerbase and revenue, speaking as someone who has actively tried to get more of his friends involved in the MWO world. They don't care about TPV. They have no interest in playing beyond a few weeks because the game is just a pointless grind without achievements, goals, story, ability to set up organized drops against friends, and the lack of community run events. HOPEFULLY I can rope them in with UI 2.0 and CW but you need to take a page from the longer running online communities. If the player is completely dependant upon you for new content you'll have to increase pace of release expotentially because there will always be people that power through your stuff, get bored, leave. If you enable the player base to do things, tourneys, unofficial leagues, etc. then they self generate content, kept the player base active and around, and buying nice shiney things.

That's what many of us have been saying in one form or another.

I must say Elbola it's unfortunate to see that blue fist next to your name...otherwise good to see you!

[Madara Uchiha]

I can see it working if its tied to its own game mode, and everyone has to use it. If not any advantage is still a advantage and thus unfair. Least that's the way I see it.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Well it is easier to maneuver in thrid person. But I find first person better for this style combat.

And while it would be nice to see the outside of my mech as something other than a scrap heap. I think better maps and an actionable ingame timeline with the historical battles enacted out would be a bigger draw for people.

And being involved in something like taking a hardened base with active turrets and such would draw far more people. Third person or no.

[Savageson]

Park sent me here to be constructive.

I don't want third person view. I don't really know what else to say honestly.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I'll be constructive.

You've wasted devlopment time working on 3rd person view instead of a proper tutorial.

Flog yourselves now.

[EvilCow]

OK, I will try to be constructive too following the trend.

Respectfully I have an actual proposal: associate to 1PV also those controversial features associated to a simulator: slow convergence, restrictive heat scale, cone of fire, slowdowns on slopes and on overheat etc. Call it simulator mode (devs, I am sure this is the game you dreamed of).

3PV would go with "easy" heat scale, double ammo and all the features that would make the game easier but upset good part of the community. Call it arcade mode.

If you make them different enough probably nobody could complain because everybody would gain something from this. the game would be richer and appealing a wider audience.

Creating two queues for just 3PV is really a bad idea IMO.

Edited by EvilCow, 09 July 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[efryt]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 06 July 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Well it is easier to maneuver in thrid person.

I agree it would help new player to understand why their mech can't move. Most people I tried to invite to play MWO had problem with one particular thing: mech can move in different direction they are looking.
Probably it's the reason that player base is not so big. Not everyone likes the idea of independent moving direction and looking direction from 1st person perspective. And that's my observation.

Probably it would be nice for new players to have it (TPP) in some practice mode.

Also making LoS in 3pv equal to 1pv would mean that some mechs have to disappear (fade away) in 3pv even if their location is theoretically seen ( but not seen from cockpit ). Is additional work worth it?

btw. the game is great so far!

[Herald of Omega]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

This thread is not about whether or not 3rd person should it exist. Rather, we want your feedback on how it should be implemented. Understand we're not debating the merits of having 3rd person or not.

Allright, make it so frustrating and pointless that people will be glad to switch back to first person.

Or, you could make it only active on the Testing Grounds, and view the mech at any angle or distance.

[Victor Morson]

If you people would just wait, you're going to get 3rd person view.. and you're going to love it!

[TheCharlatan]

What if the 3rd person is obtained via a free module?

In this way new players can use it while experienced players might prefer other, more important, modules.

Of course the camera needs to be set in a way that does not make peeking around corners too easy.

[Charles Fornton]

It's like other games (I'm thinking Vegas Three here). If it encourages a wider fanbase, then that's great. As long as I can play first person to first person then that's fine. If having 3rd person keeps the game alive for me: terrific. Crack on!

[Aim64C]

Charles Fornton, on 16 July 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

It's like other games (I'm thinking Vegas Three here). If it encourages a wider fanbase, then that's great. As long as I can play first person to first person then that's fine. If having 3rd person keeps the game alive for me: terrific. Crack on!

You're a new player to this game.

You try it because it's free. No strings.

You launch it. What makes you keep coming back?

The community warfare? Not really. You're a new guy, you don't really have a guild or anything, and even if you did, you'd be joining one 'just because.'

The robot factor? Maybe - but there are other mecha games out there.

The customization? One of the stronger draws of MechWarrior - but there are plenty of multiplayer games that allow wide degrees of customization. It's certainly a reason you'd want to have the desire to stick around, though.

The third person or first person view? ... probably one of the last things on your list. How many people 'do not play' Halo or Gears of War because of the respective shifts in view? That's right, a very small percentage the rest of the community rolls their eyes at.

So what does make new players decide to stick around?

The theme and 'aura' of a game - its environment and story background.

That's the single biggest missing factor from MWO. There is, literally, no battletech in MechWarrior Online aside from the faction symbols that mean absolutely nothing.

There's no cut-scene when you launch the game that serves to try and prep you for the environment (true, it's open beta) - there's no launch or lobby sequence to add any kind of atmosphere (perhaps under UI 2.0? We can only hope).

Right now - the experience is completely tailored to those who already know about Battletech and MechWarrior. It's not really designed to draw in new players.

[Wales Grey]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

This thread is not about whether or not 3rd person should it exist. Rather, we want your feedback on how it should be implemented. Understand we're not debating the merits of having 3rd person or not.

In a phrase: Don't.

In more words: If there is a third-person camera, do not provide HUD info at all. No targeting data, no "this is where you are going", no mapgrid.

[Mystere]

Wales Grey, on 19 July 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

In a phrase: Don't.

In more words: If there is a third-person camera, do not provide HUD info at all. No targeting data, no "this is where you are going", no mapgrid.

Once again, the purpose of this thread is to discuss how to make 3rd person work and not to sabotage it's implementation.

Edited by Mystere, 20 July 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Thor 1]

I'm willing to give tpv a chance if it is restricted to limit any advantage over fpv, at least for the sake of attracting more players.

If it doesn't work, pull the plug or nerf it so much that it isn't used.

Also like the idea of starting it in the training grounds and/or novice players.

[Navy Sixes]

Why not do a 3rd person 'hologram' inside the cockpit? It would mimic your mech's movements. It could replace the 'paper doll' readout, and could show damage taken. You could even add more specific information to the damage readout (percentage remaining in each section, for example). It could flash red on hit-boxes, replacing the 'red bar' that indicates the direction of incoming fire.

Center it where the map is so it looks 'integrated' with the field of view, and move the map to the left (again replacing the damage monitor). Us noobs get a 3pv to help our movement awareness and get to look at our wicked paint-jobs (only fair, since you insist we drop money for it ). Plus you've consolidated a lot of the flashing bells n' whistles into a more integrated interface. Finally, the actual field of view wouldn't change at all, so no 'core members' would be harmed in the making of this modification, and no separate mode (therefore no dividing of the community) will be necessary.

Everyone wins.

Edit: If someone else came up with this earlier, I didn't see it and I'm sorry. I didn't read the entire 90+ pages of this thread. Do you think the admin will? If you think this might be a good idea, should I repost?

Edited by Tycho von Gagern, 21 July 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[DEHK]

Why not have 3rd person view only available during a new pilots CBill Boost period(first 25 matches)?

• Theoretically, veteran players will never see these newbie pilots due to Elo so the issue of 3rd person player versus 1st person player is minimized. At high levels of play everyone is in 1st person.
  
• No split player base. Any option that dilutes the player base is bad
  
• New accounts could be restricted to Lone Wolf actions, or from participating in Clan Warfare matches during the grace period to prevent veterans from gaming the system through the use of MC to purchase a viable mech for ranked games.
  
• There needs to be a trainer mission where 3rd person, torso twist, weapon groups and all that spiffy mechy stuff is explained through the judicious use of text boxes and player tasks. This ensures that the newbie pilot knows 3rd person is there and that it won't be there forever.

[DirePhoenix]

DEHK, on 22 July 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Why not have 3rd person view only available during a new pilots CBill Boost period(first 25 matches)?

• Theoretically, veteran players will never see these newbie pilots due to Elo so the issue of 3rd person player versus 1st person player is minimized. At high levels of play everyone is in 1st person.
  
• No split player base. Any option that dilutes the player base is bad
  
• New accounts could be restricted to Lone Wolf actions, or from participating in Clan Warfare matches during the grace period to prevent veterans from gaming the system through the use of MC to purchase a viable mech for ranked games.
  
• There needs to be a trainer mission where 3rd person, torso twist, weapon groups and all that spiffy mechy stuff is explained through the judicious use of text boxes and player tasks. This ensures that the newbie pilot knows 3rd person is there and that it won't be there forever.

New players don't start with low Elo, they start with their Elo directly in the middle of the scale. Their performance moves them up or down in the rankings.

Also, I can already imagine the outrage as players suddenly get locked out of 3rd person view as soon as their cadet period ends. I don't see players that start out using 3rd person ever being convinced that 1st person is the better way to play.

3rd person needs to be implemented not as a gameplay mode, but as a replay mode. Similar to what HALO 3 and 4 have, where players can save replays and watch them again, but with the ability to move the camera around during the playback.

[Strum Wealh]

DirePhoenix, on 22 July 2013 - 09:20 PM, said:

3rd person needs to be implemented not as a gameplay mode, but as a replay mode. Similar to what HALO 3 and 4 have, where players can save replays and watch them again, but with the ability to move the camera around during the playback.

Of interest is that the Beagle Active Probe canonically "includes a memory unit that records the events of a battle and allows for later playback".
"This includes the ability for the user to "re-fight" the battle by making different tactical decisions, which are then analyzed and implemented by the system, allowing for the resulting consequences to be observed."
(This capability is described in TRO 2750, within the entry for the HTC-213B Hellcat II.)

This would be in addition to the "BattleROM" (data-recorder/"black box"/gun-cam system) that is a standard feature of all BattleMechs.

However, the above is merely the fluff/canon justification for such a thing to be available as a "replay" (perhaps as an additional option in the Training Grounds) to be made available only after a match has taken place (and only if the player's 'Mech was equipped with a BAP at the time).

Your thoughts?

[DirePhoenix]

Strum Wealh, on 23 July 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

Of interest is that the Beagle Active Probe canonically "includes a memory unit that records the events of a battle and allows for later playback".
"This includes the ability for the user to "re-fight" the battle by making different tactical decisions, which are then analyzed and implemented by the system, allowing for the resulting consequences to be observed."
(This capability is described in TRO 2750, within the entry for the HTC-213B Hellcat II.)

This would be in addition to the "BattleROM" (data-recorder/"black box"/gun-cam system) that is a standard feature of all BattleMechs.

However, the above is merely the fluff/canon justification for such a thing to be available as a "replay" (perhaps as an additional option in the Training Grounds) to be made available only after a match has taken place (and only if the player's 'Mech was equipped with a BAP at the time).

Your thoughts?

I like the idea of the BattleROM being the way players could replay matches (as in re-watching a recorded match with external camera control, not actually playing them again). The BAP playback feature, if implemented, would have to contain something extra, perhaps an ability to show target data in the playback? Or actual, hop-in-the-cockpit, playing the match again with NPC AI simulating the other players (sounds like a programming nightmare)?