2002 replies to this topic

[Kes Moreau]

If only there was some way to alienate the player base you've accumulated so far...might I suggest implementing 3rd person view ? I hear most are opposed to that notion so I'm certain it will meet with success.

[DirePhoenix]

Apnu, on 30 July 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I'm late to the party. here's my .02 c-bills worth.

3rd person is bad. It will dilute the player base to hard-core MW players and the MechAssault crowd. Really 1st vs 3rd perspective is a PC vs console gaming argument. MWO is a PC game, leave it 1st person.

If a console player can't get with the PC gaming way, they should go back to their XBox.

HALO, Battlefield, and CoD are 1PV games btw, not 3PV

[giganova]

Man, this community sometimes... I swear. Can we at least wait until they implement the damn thing before we all hop on the *****ing bandwagon? "3PV = I quit" so childish, grow up.

Edited by giganova, 30 July 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Apnu]

DirePhoenix, on 30 July 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

HALO, Battlefield, and CoD are 1PV games btw, not 3PV

I know, I was referring to MechAssault. Plus there are tons of other titles that are 3rd POV. GTA for example. Most of the console games I see on the shelf at Target are 3rd or side scrollers. Either way, a few exceptions doesn't make a norm.

giganova, on 30 July 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Man, this community sometimes... I swear. Can we at least wait until they implement the damn thing before we all hop on the *****ing bandwagon? "3PV = I quit" so childish, grow up.

I agree. I have no intention of quitting. But I'm opposed to 3rd POV for this game. And I'm even more opposed to the idea of breaking up the player base into 3rd POV and 1st POV groups. And finally I think the notion of making the game easier to play for drooling console players silly. PGI should have to bend down to their level. If they want to play the game they can rise up to the game's level. Not the other way around. Its backwards and bad for the business.

[Farix]

Apnu, on 30 July 2013 - 07:39 AM, said:

I'm late to the party. here's my .02 c-bills worth.

3rd person is bad. It will dilute the player base to hard-core MW players and the MechAssault crowd. Really 1st vs 3rd perspective is a PC vs console gaming argument. MWO is a PC game, leave it 1st person.

If a console player can't get with the PC gaming way, they should go back to their XBox.

You are aware that 3PV has been in MechWarrior long before MechAssault was even a thought? So the comparison that 3PV is for console games is completely false.

[Apnu]

Farix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

You are aware that 3PV has been in MechWarrior long before MechAssault was even a thought? So the comparison that 3PV is for console games is completely false.

I've played MechWarrior games since MW2. I've played them online for decades now. I'm well aware of 3rd POV. I've known hundreds of players online over the years and have discussed with them what they run and how they run it. Only a handful used 3rd POV. And those guys were console nuts. Hence my comparison, drawn of personal experience.

All of that is minor to the fact that it will split the player base, which is the bigger problem.

[Farix]

Apnu, on 30 July 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

I've played MechWarrior games since MW2. I've played them online for decades now. I'm well aware of 3rd POV. I've known hundreds of players online over the years and have discussed with them what they run and how they run it. Only a handful used 3rd POV. And those guys were console nuts. Hence my comparison, drawn of personal experience.

All of that is minor to the fact that it will split the player base, which is the bigger problem.

I use to play MW2 in 3PV all the time and don't care for console game. The reason I used 3PV is the very same reasons that PGI is incorporating it into MWO. I had trouble piloting my mech because the legs would face a different direction than where I was looking. And I'm not alone. In fact, the last console I owned was the original NES. So your analogy that 3PV is only for console players and 1PV is for PC players is completely false.

[Apnu]

Farix, on 30 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

I use to play MW2 in 3PV all the time and don't care for console game. The reason I used 3PV is the very same reasons that PGI is incorporating it into MWO. I had trouble piloting my mech because the legs would face a different direction than where I was looking. And I'm not alone. In fact, the last console I owned was the original NES. So your analogy that 3PV is only for console players and 1PV is for PC players is completely false.

You've been playing since MW2 can you haven't figured out the torso and legs thing?

On edit: One other question... why not lock the torso to the legs, as PGI's provided in the game options? Problem solved.

Edited by Apnu, 30 July 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Apnu]

The reason why 3rd POV is bad is it allows you to see over terrain you wouldn't normally be able to see over in cockpit. Giving that player a tactical advantage over the player who does not use that POV. PGI's solution is to spit the players into three groups is just plain silly. Pick one or the other. Either we all get 1st or 3rd POV and be done with it. Its the only way to be fair to all players. Some will whine, some will adapt, some will celebrate, and a few will rage quit.

PGI is trying to please everybody at once, and that just won't work. It imbalances the game, confuses the players, makes for more and a harder work for the devs which increases production costs and decreases profits with will annoy IGP and other investors. Its bad business and in the end will torpedo the game. PGI has to pick their poison and ingest it.

[Farix]

Apnu, on 30 July 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

The reason why 3rd POV is bad is it allows you to see over terrain you wouldn't normally be able to see over in cockpit. Giving that player a tactical advantage over the player who does not use that POV. PGI's solution is to spit the players into three groups is just plain silly. Pick one or the other. Either we all get 1st or 3rd POV and be done with it. Its the only way to be fair to all players. Some will whine, some will adapt, some will celebrate, and a few will rage quit.

First, whatever "advantage" 3PV may provide depends very much on where PGI places the camera. Second, everyone is going to have the "same" advantage in the 3PV queues. An advantage share by everyone is no advantage at all. Third, there are only going to be two queues (1PV only and Mixed), not three, that will likely work like the current Assault and Conquest queues. Fourth, we won't know what 3PV actually looks like until it hits the Public Test Server later this week. There may not be any "peeking over hills" or around corners per my first point.

Apnu, on 30 July 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

PGI is trying to please everybody at once, and that just won't work. It imbalances the game, confuses the players, makes for more and a harder work for the devs which increases production costs and decreases profits with will annoy IGP and other investors. Its bad business and in the end will torpedo the game. PGI has to pick their poison and ingest it.

You do understand that one if the biggest turnoff of this game is the amount of frustration created because players have trouble controlling their mechs. Large numbers of players becoming frustrated with your UI and controls often spells doom for the longterm viability of any game. PGI is trying to address this by incorporating 3PV. Just because you don't have problems with the controls doesn't mean that everyone else won't.

And finally, stop trying to dictate to other players how they should play the game. They should be able to choose which style that best fits them withing the limits that PGI sets to prevent griefing.

[Lugh]

This is still the biggest waste of time in this game.

[Marcus Tanner]

Great for the training grounds, and tutorial (whenever that happens).

Bad for real play. It divides players, even within a group that wants to run together.
The player base is going to gravitate to one or the other as the "real" MWO, and then the rest will be stuck with a lame experience.

[Apnu]

Farix, on 30 July 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

First, whatever "advantage" 3PV may provide depends very much on where PGI places the camera. Second, everyone is going to have the "same" advantage in the 3PV queues. An advantage share by everyone is no advantage at all. Third, there are only going to be two queues (1PV only and Mixed), not three, that will likely work like the current Assault and Conquest queues. Fourth, we won't know what 3PV actually looks like until it hits the Public Test Server later this week. There may not be any "peeking over hills" or around corners per my first point.

Any external camera that allows a player to see arms, torso, and leg positions will allow for peeking over hills and around walls. There's no other way around it. You're point is moot.

Easy case in point, my JM6-S and 2 Gauss Rifles. In that thing I can position so that just my arm is poking out of cover and fire away with the gauss never exposing my mech in 3rd POV but a skinny arm. In 1st POV, I can't I have to move out a bit, expose at least my whole side and risk fire. That's an advantage 3rd POV give and it will be abused. There's already a level of abuse going on in this game, 3rd POV will open it to more.

And once we have 3rd POV and it gets exploited in more PUG stomping by cheese players, taking it back will be almost impossible. Look at how the community freaked out over ECM! Look at the collective panty wading that's been going on about "ghost heat" (which is a non-issue IMO).

Farix, on 30 July 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

You do understand that one if the biggest turnoff of this game is the amount of frustration created because players have trouble controlling their mechs. Large numbers of players becoming frustrated with your UI and controls often spells doom for the longterm viability of any game. PGI is trying to address this by incorporating 3PV. Just because you don't have problems with the controls doesn't mean that everyone else won't.

Mech games have always been complex, if a player can't get along with the complexity then they should go play something else. Business isn't about trying to attract everybody and make everybody happy. No business can do that, and every business that has tried to do that has eventually failed under the weight of expectations. Business is about turning a profit. This game already has thousands and thousands of players in 1st POV and we're all doing fine with it.

Also, its not "my" UI. I'm a player in this game and I've bought MC from PGI. That's it. I own nothing here. The same goes for you. Don't fool yourself into thinking you've got any say in these matters. You don't, I don't. We are both just two voices in a cacophony of noise that PGI sorts through.

Another point, you got some stats to back up this "large numbers" you claim? I've logged over 40 hours of this game since the stats have become available (and I was an early closed beta player, still got the invite email in my inbox) and I've never seen "large numbers" of players having problems with the controls, I've seen a handful. And of that handful most of them figured it out in a few matches and got along fine. I think your making stats up.

As for new players and the learning curve the solution is very simple and cost effective. Instead of wasting development time and money on 3rd POV, they can simply make a newbie server (say call it Solaris), make it true solo death match, and let the newbies flail around with other newbies until they graduate out of that and into the gaming community.

MPBT:3025 did that and it worked great. DDO does it on Korthos Island and it works great. Problem solved, and the cost to PGI is just another server, which can be had for less than $5,000.

Here's the truth, people are always going to grief no matter what PGI does. Which is why they should pick their poison and swallow it. Having both POVs, as PGI has suggested, will lead to community splitting and a new level of greifers, cheese, and exploitation. The only way to be fair to all players is to have one POV. Either we get 3rd or we get 1st, but not both. That's fair to all players because we'll all have a level playing field.

Farix, on 30 July 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

And finally, stop trying to dictate to other players how they should play the game. They should be able to choose which style that best fits them withing the limits that PGI sets to prevent griefing.

LOL! You're funny. I dictate nothing, you're taking my opinion personally. Relax forum-warrior. This thread is about what the community thinks, I'm part of that community, and I'm telling PGI what I think. You can take it or leave it.

I fail to see how 1st POV is a style choice over 3rd POV. We don't have 3rd POV now, so there's no style choice to make. Every MW game was different and hand different features and paces. Players raised up (or down) to the level of the game and enjoyed it or walked away from it. Its the natural order of things for gamers.

If you can't get 1st POV in this game, then maybe the game is too much for you. Why torture yourself with a game mechanic you have trouble figuring out? Walk away instead of driving yourself nuts playing a game that isn't a good fit for you. I've done that to many titles. I've probably wasted over $1,000 in my life time on games and game systems that I just couldn't play and have fun with. I have boxes of games I don't play because I didn't like them or couldn't figure out the controls or mechanics enough to enjoy the game. So what?

[Khaleessi]

I just want to look at my pretty mech in all its glory whilst pewpewing. IS THAT SO WRONG?

[Apnu]

Khaleessi, on 31 July 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I just want to look at my pretty mech in all its glory whilst pewpewing. IS THAT SO WRONG?

Now this is an excuse for 3rd POV I can understand.

I'm still firmly in the "no" camp however.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

I'd like to have it in the testing grounds for sure. Then I can screenshot my mechs in action.

And speaking of action can we have some AI for the mechs in the training grounds. At least it will give y'all some AI practice and feedback before you implement any AI stuff ingame.

[Shivaxi]

I figured the way you were going to implement it, was to make it a module or something. So it's something you have to activate. Sends out a camera behind you that follows you and your screen switches to that. That way someone can see if you're using 3rd person or not, and perhaps shoot down your camera so you can't use it.

I think that'd be the most fair way of implementing it.

Edited by Shivaxi, 31 July 2013 - 04:48 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

Khaleessi, on 31 July 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

I just want to look at my pretty mech in all its glory whilst pewpewing. IS THAT SO WRONG?

You don't need a 3pv gameplay mode to do that. All you need is a replay to watch, like the one HALO 3 & 4 have.

Play in first-person. Then go back and watch the replay with a free-roaming camera. That way no one has any special advantages during the match, and you can go back and watch the match from whatever angle you like.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 31 July 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Elbola Ierocis]

Bryan Ekman, on 21 March 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

Honest answer.

The analysis on those who voted, showed that the majority of votes came from a very narrow demographic of our player base. And while they represent some of core players, they did not necessarily represent the opinion of the general user base. The majority of our players never visit, post, or read the forum content, so the poll could be considered weighted in favour of a specific demographic.

Since the majority of players who have an issue with 3rd person come generally from the core players, we elected to address this issue via this forum post to collect all of the concerns and ideas that this group faces or has with 3rd person.

The comment reads as such: The poll overwhelming showed no one wanted 3rd person play but since not everyone voted we're going to ignore the poll.

Might it be that your other players that don't visit or post are also those that don't play? Where as those that do post and play have sunk a large amount of money into this game and actually care about their money's value?

I have many friends that signed up to play early on. After finding out that the game lacked a CW, had unfriendly progression tree, constant community uproar that the game's CW keeps missing deadlines, patches that makes the game unplayable. They've all opt'd out leaving me to play with whoever till they hear something contrary. 3rd persion view is not even in their top 100 list of things that need to be addressed before they play.

Edited by Elbola Ierocis, 01 August 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Belorion]

Most of the people in the drops seem perfectly ok with it.