2002 replies to this topic

[SilverMalachite]

Well COD & other games have 10 plus modes.

Why not MechWarrior Online
There is no real split because they are all a part of the community.

They just have preference to which style of MWO they will play at that time.

[Mystere]

Inconspicuous, on 03 August 2013 - 07:35 PM, said:

Not only will they not admit it, they now suggest mixing the 1pv and 3pv cues...

Well, considering I have always said separation was unnecessary given a good 3PV implementation, my position remains unchanged.

[Hotthedd]

Mystere, on 04 August 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Well, considering I have always said separation was unnecessary given a good 3PV implementation, my position remains unchanged.

You DO realize that if the queues were ever merged given the current implementation thousands will leave, right?
Even if changed, there is no guarantee that once merged 3PV does not get buffed.

Do you honestly think the amount of players lost will be made back up financially by the amount of players theoretically gained?

[Jestun]

Mystere, on 04 August 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

Well, considering I have always said separation was unnecessary given a good 3PV implementation, my position remains unchanged.

Can we wait until we have "good" implementation before you start campaigning for one queue?

Right now 3rd person still quite clearly gives advantages.

[Mystere]

Jestun, on 04 August 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Can we wait until we have "good" implementation before you start campaigning for one queue?

Right now 3rd person still quite clearly gives advantages.

Well, if you go back and read my comments on the issue, you will notice that I usually qualify them with "given a good 3PV implementation" or something to that effect.

[jakucha]

CSJ Ranger, on 04 August 2013 - 12:33 AM, said:

Yeah , in the Fist Pic ..the Awesome is covered from Sight , and in the second 3PV Pic the Awesome is in view...

The Awesome can definitely see the Atlas blinking camera since it floats above the mech. The Atlas is giving itself away as well, which means it can be targeted and hit with missiles, whereas in first in probably can't target him. This actually makes 3pv worse for those reasons.

[Hotthedd]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

The Awesome can definitely see the Atlas blinking camera since it floats above the mech. The Atlas is giving itself away as well, which means it can be targeted and hit with missiles, whereas in first in probably can't target him. This actually makes 3pv worse for those reasons.

You must not have actually played the test servers. The Atlas cannot be targeted by the Awesome. The Awesome has no idea if the blinking light represents an Atlas or a hunchback. The Awesome has no idea what direction the Atlas is facing, or if there are several 1st person view mechs with the Atlas.

3PV gives an advantage. It was the REASON they implemented it.

[Hotthedd]

Thunderklaws, on 04 August 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

You DO realize that theyre gonna do this regardless of what you want?
Dont let the door hit you on the way out.

No worries, I won't. There are hundreds of other games out there.

If you end up being the last one to leave MW:O, turn off the lights, mmmmmkay?

[jakucha]

Hotthedd, on 04 August 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

You must not have actually played the test servers. The Atlas cannot be targeted by the Awesome. The Awesome has no idea if the blinking light represents an Atlas or a hunchback. The Awesome has no idea what direction the Atlas is facing, or if there are several 1st person view mechs with the Atlas.

3PV gives an advantage. It was the REASON they implemented it.

I played it, and depending on how high the drone is you can discern the mech type. On canyon network for example, I could spot the blinking drone camera from a mile away while the enemy mech was on the very bottom of the canyon corridor.

[Hotthedd]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I played it, and depending on how high the drone is you can discern the mech type. On canyon network for example, I could spot the blinking drone camera from a mile away while the enemy mech was on the very bottom of the canyon corridor.

And what was the mech type?
Would you have spotted him if he physically crested the ridge?

[jakucha]

Hotthedd, on 04 August 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

And what was the mech type?
Would you have spotted him if he physically crested the ridge?

It turned out to be a Stalker. It was the point of the map where there was no possible way for him to walk up any of the walls nearby. There's literally no way I could have seen him from where I was if he didn't have 3pv enabled and his blinky camera. For as much as it "helps" you, it hurts you.

And like I've said before, if they make it so you're stuck in 3pv the whole match if you chose to use it, I'll gladly fight a team of 3pv users.

Edited by jakucha, 04 August 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[ICEFANG13]

Is there anyone who actually thinks that this 3rd person is not a huge advantage?

[jakucha]

ICEFANG13, on 04 August 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Is there anyone who actually thinks that this 3rd person is not a huge advantage?

The only advantage you gain is by currently being able to switch modes at will. Everything else about it gimps your combat ability.

Edited by jakucha, 04 August 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[Hotthedd]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

It turned out to be a Stalker. It was the point of the map where there was no possible way for him to walk up any of the walls nearby. There's literally no way I could have seen him from where I was if he didn't have 3pv enabled and his blinky camera. For as much as it "helps" you, it hurts you.

And like I've said before, if they make it so you're stuck in 3pv the whole match if you chose to use it, I'll gladly fight a team of 3pv users.

So, you did not know it was a Stalker until later in the game. The information you gained from his drone was worthless by the time you could act on it.

Being stuck in 3PV for the whole match would be a step in the right direction. Right now there is no downside to it, because it is on a toggle.

[jakucha]

Hotthedd, on 04 August 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

So, you did not know it was a Stalker until later in the game. The information you gained from his drone was worthless by the time you could act on it.

Being stuck in 3PV for the whole match would be a step in the right direction. Right now there is no downside to it, because it is on a toggle.

Nah, I walked over and shot down at him. Yes, removing toggle ability or even a long cooldown are the way to go in the future.

[Gremlich Johns]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

The Atlas is giving itself away as well, which means it can be targeted and hit with missiles, whereas in first in probably can't target him. This actually makes 3pv worse for those reasons.

You are suggesting one of at least three circumstances:
1) that an opponent can target something like an ECM Atlas with drone when it cannot be seen, or...
2) you can target the drone, or
3) you can dumb fire LRMs onto the Atlas, which you cannot see (nor determine the drone's range) and hit it.

If you remember, each mech, when it is observable with radar, gets the funny little triangle above its head. A hull-defilade Atlas with ECM is effectively unseen and when he uses the Drone can also increase his chances of survivability in addition to the offensive tactical advantages that ANY 3PV mode will impart.

Keep 3PV in the training servers. PGI argues that new players need it to get used to torso twist - well, let them learn there and then come outside to play with the big boys once they learn how to literally walk.

[Dashwood Fox]

I'm not not completely against 3PV but I would like to see it nerfed from the form it currently appeared as in the recent public test. Peaking around corners without actually revealing yourself has been somewhat addressed by the visible floating camera behind your 'mech that gives away your location. It's not a perfect solution but it is an okay solution.

The issue that I foresee that bothers me is the advantage it will give heavier 'mechs in close combat situations. Particularly when they're fighting against Mediums and Lights that take advantage of a heavier 'mech's cumbersome movement and limited view to in close range. 3PV heightens situational awareness up close by allowing the heavies to see everything immediately around them, making it harder for Lights and Mediums to 'trick' them and out-maneuver them. I'm not sure what a good remedy for this would be.

One other thing I would like to see is an increase in the time it takes to deploy and recover the 3PV camera. Something like 3-4 seconds at least to discourage toggling back an forth during action.

Maybe these things don't need to be addressed at all. As long as 3PV is prohibited from competitive play such as tournaments and community warfare then it won't be such a big deal to me.

[Lucian Nostra]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I played it, and depending on how high the drone is you can discern the mech type. On canyon network for example, I could spot the blinking drone camera from a mile away while the enemy mech was on the very bottom of the canyon corridor.

Right because right now your basing the usefulness of 3pv in a "novelty state" where people are rocking 3pv because it's new and interesting to try out.

But once it's been in game for a while people will know when and how to use it, they won't just be wandering around the map in 3pv giving their position away at all times. It'll be used in short intervals to scout out the area before moving on.

I mean lets take for example that training ground atlas awesome picture and assume that's real game play head on encounter like that.

The Atlas now knows there is an Awesome standing atop the ridge total devoid of cover.
The Awesome now knows there is some mech infront of him behind total cover.

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 04 August 2013 - 08:35 PM.

[jakucha]

Lucian Nostra, on 04 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Right because right now your basing the usefulness of 3pv in a "novelty state" where people are rocking 3pv because it's new and interesting to try out.

But once it's been in game for a while people will know when and how to use it, they won't just be wandering around the map in 3pv giving their position away at all times. It'll be used in short intervals to scout out the area before moving on.

3pv legitimately nerfs your firing precision due to the angle and that you're even further back. Your view is also blocked up close by your mech. Your zoom isn't as great in 3pv. Your reticle jitters like crazy when transitioning terrain and any object up close. That's a huge one.

1pv is better for combat period. As long as they remove the toggle or something, feel free to use 3pv to your heart's desire.

Edited by jakucha, 04 August 2013 - 08:38 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

jakucha, on 04 August 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

3pv legitimately nerfs your firing precision due to the angle and that you're even further back. Your view is also blocked up close by your mech. Your zoom isn't as great in 3pv. Your reticle jitters like crazy when transitioning terrain and any object up close. That's a huge one.

1pv is better for combat period.

and right now nothing forces you to fight in 3pv, and nobody WILL fight in 3pv they'll all use it for it's only true addition to the game, practically risk free recon.

I don't know anyone that wouldn't rather broadcast their position with a blinky camera drone to see if the ridge is clear instead of cresting it and taking a faceful of ppc gauss

They might up and force you to stay in 3pv once you choose it but looking at PGI's track record? I highly doubt it

edit: And yes the blinky drone of shoot me now will hurt noobs hard, but someone that knows what their doing? gonna just get ugly..

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 04 August 2013 - 08:42 PM.