121 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

This will be interesting to test on my DDC - seems like a huge nerf, but I'll have to see what it actually plays like.

[Kmieciu]

TheManUpStairs, on 22 March 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Words of wisdom. Hunch4SP or Cent9A/D pilot, 2,000+ games in them...

True story: I played one game in my 2xML 2xASRM6 Cent9D last night post-patch and immediately cried my way to the mechbay and pulled SRM's and HS, putting an AC10 in their place. I launched into a game to warm up, the second game launched against PGI's ThomasO. I stated very clearly in general chat that I held him personally accountable for the forced-removal of my SRM's. Flanked him, and AC10'd his LRM-Cat in the face repeatedly until he cored through. Exited the game and went to bed. ...slept soundly.

I think you should thank him for introducing more variety into the game. I did see a Centurion armed with AC10 today! And had some great games in JR7-F again!

[Kneipenboxer]

I might sound like a whining dog, but the lrm / srm-hotfix is absolutly inacceptable.
I was a huge fan of the game but this hotfix kind of cripples all my mechbuilds I played so long for (and paid in hard earned C-Bills).
I aggree that lrms were overpowered and the srms maybe, too. But this is too much damage reduction. I am kind of done with this game now. Frustrated!

[rgreat]

Can i have your stuff?

On the bright side, why not just adapt?

[ICEFANG13]

You don't seem to understand that a Small Laser is much better than an SRM-2 now. Boating them is not what I'd said I'd do, but SRMs dealing spread out damage, there's no reason not to take more skill based weapons and use that aiming.

[rgreat]

ICEFANG13, on 22 March 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

You don't seem to understand that a Small Laser is much better than an SRM-2 now. Boating them is not what I'd said I'd do, but SRMs dealing spread out damage, there's no reason not to take more skill based weapons and use that aiming.

Well, SRM-2 never was a viable choice for a mech.
Missile hardpoints usuallly limited in numbers, so you naturally prefer larger SRM versions.
Why SRM-2 when you can use SRM-4/6?
I'd say it's only viable for battle armor.

About spread out SRM damage, it have both pros and cons compared to lasers.
Pros:
- SRM's are easier to hit with due to large cloud of rockets.
- SRM's generally do more damage per ton or slot.
- SRM's generate much less heat per damage point.
- SRM's are fire and forget weapon.

And in fact laser damage spread out too due to beam duration time.

Edited by rgreat, 22 March 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

I play a hunchback sp as my primary with a standard Serm 6 and 4. I think 1.5 is a bit to much. They arent my main damage dealer my 4 med lasers are. I am also in the high 80's with my meds and in mid 40's with my serms. One of the reasons is unless the mech is super close at least a few srms miss. A srm 4 now does 6 damage. Thats one more than the 5 on a medium laser. The SRM is short range, requires ammo, heat, they do not generally hit the same location as well as having a missile or two flying off to left field. You cannot change your aiming trajectory like other balistics as wel (unlike lasers)l. The Med laser can do 5 damage fire twice as far and heat is close to SRM plus it targets a single location.

I feel splash damage should be removed all together

With all this being said I think SRM's doing 2 points per missle is fine.

As for Streaks keep them where they are. Why? Because they generally do not miss. you could argue that the seeking components reduce the actual muntions.

I have yet to test LRM's

[Cyke]

I use just 12 SRM tubes (two SRM6 launchers) on one of my loadouts, and they feel significantly less effective.
I understand that balancing boating (36 SRM tube loadouts) unfortunately means that non-boaters have to be affected, so I take this in stride; it's not a big deal.

I'm just curious, though.. is there a reason why splash damage is kept in the game for missiles, and needs to be constantly adjusted and re-adjusted alongside missile damage? I'm don't claim to understand the full situation when it comes to game design, but is there a reason why splash isn't simply removed from missiles, and then just balance the missiles' impact damage value alone?
At a glance, it seems that the complexity of the added variable (splash damage) has caused the game design to swing from overpowered missiles to underpowered missiles, and then back again, several times.

Regardless, I know PGI is putting a lot of effort into refining the game balance, and that it's not an easy task. The swiftness with which they came out with the LRM fix is commendable.

[Falconic]

Even SRM 2's are better than machine guns and are getting attention in patching. SRM 2's I think fill a role in very light mechs to gain a slight alpha/scare advantage when a larger mech is flanked. A little "Hey I am shooting you in the Rumpus!." that a small laser wouldn't attract. I think the tonnage between the SRMs is about right. Maybe a cool down and heat change for SRM2's vs 4 or 6 is in order to make them more viable.
I still think you are splitting hairs over something that is a lot less broken that other parts of the game. Plus, the more you nerf Raven 3Ls the happier a man I am.

[Zyllos]

The TBT-7K with the SRM/2 arm. The problem I have with the SRM/2 is how useful is that launcher?

I think it should be lowered down to a cooldown where it can fire out 4 SRMs at the same rate as an SRM/4 so a cooldown of 2.0s for the SRM/2 would bring it close to the same as a SRM/4.

Thus, SRM/2 launchers are rapid fire launchers that are quite accurate at a distance. But you have to keep your facing to continue dealing damage. (1.5 DPS)

The SRM/4 is the average launcher which are still accurate but do not require you to keep facing to the target. It just weighs a bit more than the SRM/2. (1.6 DPS)

The SRM/6 is a longer cooldown launcher that will spray as many missiles as possible at the target in the shortest amount of time. Good for alpha strikes or quick strikes. (2.25 DPS)

How to balance these to SSRMs is going to need a bit of work. I personally think SSRMs need to deal 25% less overall DPS for almost guaranteed damage. Thus, a SSRM launcher has a 25% increase in the cooldown of the SRM launcher of the same size. As the launcher gets larger, the cooldown is increased by a bit more

SSRM/2 > 2.5s (25% - 1.2 DPS)
SSRM/4 > 4.8s (~30% - 1.25 DPS)
SSRM/6 > 5.4s (35% - 1.67 DPS)

Now on to LRMs, especially Clan LRMs, I think are going to take some work. I belive the focus of their work should be on their flight patterns. Smaller LRM launchers should be much more efficient with ammo than larger launchers. They should also have good DPS overall but is spread across many sections. But with support (Artemis, TAG, and NARC) their effectiveness should increase to make them extremely deadly.

The major differences between Clan LRMs and IS LRMs is that they lose their ability to indirect fire for increased speed and ability to fire up close.

[Royalewithcheese]

My feeling on my DDC is that SRM6 is still good, but that robots that previously leaned heavily on it (Centurions, A1s, etc.) may or may not be viable at the 1.5 damage point. Very first impressions, though. IMO TT values (2, 1) might be the sweet spot for missile damage.

[ZBeren]

I like them now, I would add maybe a bit more damage, but hey, you can't have everything.

I use stalkers mostly (have a 5S, a 3F and a 5M), all with smrs or ssrms; and I've noticed close to no difference on kills/damage, maybe it's because I simply compensate the missing damage by using lasers more often. For example, my 5S uses 4x meds, 2x larges and 4x streaks, before hotfix, I was getting kills way too easily, to the point I wasn't even using my lasers, now I'm back to alternating between them, and still get the same amount of kills, albeit, gotta actually use all of my weapons, which is the point...

On my 3F and my 5M I was using srm 6s, needless to say, before hotfix, there were people that died within a single srm 6 volley... that was way too OP, again, wasn't even using lasers. Now, altho these 2 can still kill faster, at least I get to use my lasers lol...

If they are going to increase missile damage, or change it at all, I think they should aswell just revamp how shooting lrms work. Add a penalty or something, like making people unable to walk and shoot lrms at the same time, stuff like that.

tl;dr: they are fine the way they are now.

[rgreat]

Royalewithcheese, on 22 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

My feeling on my DDC is that SRM6 is still good, but that robots that previously leaned heavily on it (Centurions, A1s, etc.) may or may not be viable at the 1.5 damage point. Very first impressions, though. IMO TT values (2, 1) might be the sweet spot for missile damage.

It is already 2+ if you consider splash damage.

BTW: Tried Hunchback 4SP.

It still kill things perfectly..

[repete]

etrius, on 21 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

...Anyone who is crying about splat-cats should play one...

Agreed entirely. The people I see complaining about Splatcats are those who have generally just been killed by one, calling them "cheese" with no idea how they aren't MWO: Easy-mode and if you don't play them well, you get savaged. They, like anything, take skill to play well.

[Conga Whiplash]

Royalewithcheese, on 22 March 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

My feeling on my DDC is that SRM6 is still good, but that robots that previously leaned heavily on it (Centurions, A1s, etc.) may or may not be viable at the 1.5 damage point. Very first impressions, though. IMO TT values (2, 1) might be the sweet spot for missile damage.

It's been expressed a couple times but I think LRM/SRM of 1/2 are the sweet spot for damage too. Just change it back to what I've heard is the early beta and call it a day. Ppl will still boat but you can't make the rules for the exceptions or it will just unbalance it for those running more 'normal' builds with a mix of weapon systems.

[PaintedWolf]

Conga Whiplash, on 23 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

It's been expressed a couple times but I think LRM/SRM of 1/2 are the sweet spot for damage too. Just change it back to what I've heard is the early beta and call it a day. Ppl will still boat but you can't make the rules for the exceptions or it will just unbalance it for those running more 'normal' builds with a mix of weapon systems.

Yup. The only way to make it so boating/specialization does not work is to completely unbalance one aspect of the game. Unfortunately this will not work in the long-term, and will just end up hurting the overall game- which was the point of all those complaining about cheese in the first place.

[qki]

rgreat, on 22 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

Can i have your stuff?

On the bright side, why not just adapt?

He can't adapt - that route is only available to good players. Hopeless cases, that depend on broken combinations delivering more damage than repeatedly shooting someone in the face with an AC20 can only cry about it.

[PaintedWolf]

qki, on 23 March 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

He can't adapt - that route is only available to good players. Hopeless cases, that depend on broken combinations delivering more damage than repeatedly shooting someone in the face with an AC20 can only cry about it.

Just adapt by not using missiles at all. Simple. I mean maybe it sucks, in a way, kinda, but don't stress yourself out trying to maintain some illusion that SRMs are now balanced or good if you know they are not. Just don't use them, and let those generalists weaken their own designs in a desperate attempt to prove missiles are now balanced.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 23 March 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[qki]

It's not an illusion - SRMs are still good.

Yes - they do less than half the damage they used to do, and as much as I enjoyed being the 700 damage raven, that was just seriously out of line. No - I won't be able to reproduce pre-hotfix results with my SRMs, but that doesn't mean they're no longer worth using.

[PaintedWolf]

qki, on 23 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

It's not an illusion - SRMs are still good.

Yes - they do less than half the damage they used to do, and as much as I enjoyed being the 700 damage raven, that was just seriously out of line. No - I won't be able to reproduce pre-hotfix results with my SRMs, but that doesn't mean they're no longer worth using.

IF they suck now, I am telling players who think so not to use them. Just boat ballistic and energy weapons. And yes, if a weapon is under-powered it is not worth using.