130 replies to this topic

[Steamroller Stig]

So what exactly is the issue with it? how is it any different than quickly running up an down a hill to take pot shots at enemy mechs?

Bare in mind I don't even mount JJs, its normally not worth the tonnage.

[Kargush]

People don't like being shot at without being able to retaliate.

[Corpsecandle]

Never played MW4 multiplayer, but from what I've seen around the boards it was only an issue because it was easy to get in a headshot.

[Dirk Le Daring]

Poptarting = Skeet Shooting.

If you have an LBX A/C

On a serious note, it does not bother me, but it may do, just have to see how the game plays.

[WalkingDeathBot]

kargush, on 31 May 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

People don't like being shot at without being able to retaliate.

Well get used to getting nailed with LRM's then, at least there won't be arty like in WoT....well not exactly away.

Edited by WalkingDeathBot, 31 May 2012 - 07:03 PM.

[Roland]

Short answer: Thing that lots of folks complained about because they couldn't manage to out maneuver the enemy.

Longer answer: In MW4, a popular "tactic" was to hide behind a ridge, and either walk or JJ up to the lip and fire on your target. (I put tactic in quotes, because this really doesn't constitute a tactic) This exploited a few aspects of game and was quite effective if your targets were foolish enough to just stand on the other edge to take it.

First, in games which didn't force a first person perspective, the shooter could just tilt his camera and see the guy he was going to shoot, without exposing himself at all. This gave a large advantage to the guy popping, since he could basically line up the shot prior to popping, while the target didn't know where he was going to appear.

Second, for folks with poor connections to the server, popping up over a wall or ridge made them fairly invincible, because by the time the target saw the enemy mech, he wasn't even there any more to the server. The server registered the hit during a period where the client actually was still rendering the enemy behind cover.

Finally, for quite a while (up until th BK expansion, if I recall), laser weapons actually had a bug in them that they didn't intersect with terrain. So it was possible to fire through hills. Even in FFP games, you could pop only the head of a mech and take a shot, even if the weapons themselves on the arms didn't clear the hill.

All of this added up to a technique that was widespread in MW4, and as a result, lots of folks cried about it.

The reality is though, it wasn't cheating (well, intentionally exploiting the hill bug kind of was), and good teams would just outmaneuver the guys who were trying to ridge snipe... often they'd be running exceptionally hot builds, with stripped leg armor, so if you got some fire on them from a flank they'd often break fast.

Also, lots of folks who did it weren't really any GOOD at it. We used to just yell "Pull!" and shoot them.

[CW Roy]

The biggest thing that annoyed people was not Jump Jets, but Nova Cats in NHUA or HLA Lunacy/Frostbite maps mounted with full ER Large lasers. Take a team of Novas, pop over hills (with throttle) and go right back under cover, and you can take turns shooting and distracting vulnerable enemies very easily. That results in everyone hiding behind hills. It didn't slow the battle any, and was plenty fair, as you shouldn't be wandering alone in the open, and anyone popping over a hill with a Nova Cat would be exposing the tops of their arms before being able to get shots off. A good team versus a team of hill popping Novas could just strip all the Novas of their arms, leaving the armless ones to focus on the others.

I enjoyed it very much.

Edited by cw roy, 31 May 2012 - 07:07 PM.

[RAGE Roller]

People where able to stand behind a hill , use JJ to pop up and snipe ppl out .It made life hell for short range ground pounders,especially when there were multiple people shooting legs.

[TriggerhappySOB]

Lol i always love that feeling when you see a Shadowcat or an Uziel start pop-tarting (most recently in MWLL) and you get in that one golden BB from an ac20 or a gauss, and get the kill, and (especially in MWLL, goes all floppy and tumbles)....

HOLY CRAP!!! I just had an idea!!! Ok so what if the devs decided to put in a rag-doll effect, If youre mid-air, and hit something/ get hit by something (i.e. a hit from a gauss) it sends your mech tumbling to the ground? That way, it will discourage poptarting, and people will be more careful of what they are doing when jumping. Being aware of your surroundings, and if youre on the ground, it gives you a window of opprotunity to get in a few shots... please tell me im not the only one whos thought of this?

[Dirk Le Daring]

TriggerhappySOB, on 31 May 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Lol i always love that feeling when you see a Shadowcat or an Uziel start pop-tarting (most recently in MWLL) and you get in that one golden BB from an ac20 or a gauss, and get the kill, and (especially in MWLL, goes all floppy and tumbles)....

HOLY CRAP!!! I just had an idea!!! Ok so what if the devs decided to put in a rag-doll effect, If youre mid-air, and hit something/ get hit by something (i.e. a hit from a gauss) it sends your mech tumbling to the ground? That way, it will discourage poptarting, and people will be more careful of what they are doing when jumping. Being aware of your surroundings, and if youre on the ground, it gives you a window of opprotunity to get in a few shots... please tell me im not the only one whos thought of this?

I like it.
Would be an interesting aspect.

[perfectblue]

Roland, on 31 May 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

First, in games which didn't force a first person perspective, the shooter could just tilt his camera and see the guy he was going to shoot, without exposing himself at all. This gave a large advantage to the guy popping, since he could basically line up the shot prior to popping, while the target didn't know where he was going to appear.

I am fearful of MWO implementing 3rd person perspective for this reason. At the moment they are "considering" future implementation. 3rd person gives tactical advantages beyond using it to line up shots on a ridge.

Edited by perfectblue, 31 May 2012 - 07:13 PM.

[OnLashoc]

The thing is poor players make excuses, good players adapt and overcome.

I actually prefer to be in the open and below the poptart'er rather than on another hill poptart'ing with them hoping to shoot. Either way you have a 50-50 chance of landing a hit just like them, but being in the open down below, they have to jump that much higher which gives my teammates more of an opportunity to shoot them trying to jump and shoot me.

Either way they jump and aim down trying to shoot me and get shot by my teammates, or they ignore me while I close in on them and try to shoot my teammates. That is where teamwork comes in, and the stronger the team, the better your chances.

It is a tactic, and it is fair because you have the same ability to do so. But if you'd rather put your head in the sand and act like it's unbeatable, then no wonder you probably were victimized over and over by it.

This statement was my opinion and not directed to anyone. Just my point of view.

[armitage]

The problem with poptarting in MW4 was it seems like EVERYONE was doing it. Tactically it makes sense, limited exposure to return fire and being safe behind cover while you cool down and weapons recycle. The other thing is its incredibly boring when the whole team is doing it and in pubs is near impossible to cooridinate an effective counter. In MWLL its not a big deal because the maps generally have path of cover to close the distance or keep between you and the shooter

[Zervziel]

Roland, on 31 May 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Also, lots of folks who did it weren't really any GOOD at it. We used to just yell "Pull!" and shoot them.

Ok, I'll admit, I laughed.

I've noticed that in LL, noone truly cries about poptarters. Maybe it's because of the fact that the mixed forces that make up those games necessitate such actions and in turn are countered more heavily. I mean, I've seen more than one poptarter jump up, fires, gets narced and as they go back below the ridge about eighty lrms drop behind his cover and nail him. It's even funnier when three BA's hop up to say hi with man-pack ppcs and heavy lasers.

And most hilariously I've seen more than one poptarter jet up to fire only to get rammed by an aerospace. Double fail!

Edited by Zervziel, 31 May 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Absit invidia]

TriggerhappySOB, on 31 May 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Lol i always love that feeling when you see a Shadowcat or an Uziel start pop-tarting (most recently in MWLL) and you get in that one golden BB from an ac20 or a gauss, and get the kill, and (especially in MWLL, goes all floppy and tumbles)....

HOLY CRAP!!! I just had an idea!!! Ok so what if the devs decided to put in a rag-doll effect, If youre mid-air, and hit something/ get hit by something (i.e. a hit from a gauss) it sends your mech tumbling to the ground? That way, it will discourage poptarting, and people will be more careful of what they are doing when jumping.

lol image working out the bugs with that
the cataphract jj's over the hill and you head shot it with a gauss rifle killing it. it tumbles to the ground and gets stuck in it, legs flailing about.
you sit back and enjoy the hilarious glicth

[OnLashoc]

Zervziel, on 31 May 2012 - 07:13 PM, said:

Ok, I'll admit, I laughed.

I've noticed that in LL, noone truly cries about poptarters. Maybe it's because of the fact that the mixed forces that make up those games necessitate such actions and in turn are countered more heavily. I mean, I've seen more than one poptarter jump up, fires, gets narced and as they go back below the ridge about eighty lrms drop behind his cover and nail him. It's even funnier when three BA's hop up to say high with man-pack ppcs and heavy lasers.

And most hilariously I've seen more than one poptarter jet up to fire only to get rammed by an aerospace. Double fail!

Again good players and teams prepare, adapt, and overcome.

Sorry players, want everything nerf'd for them.

I always say "Be pro-active, rather than reactive."

When I go into a game, I've already thought of 10 different scenarios expected to be seen before landing planet side and have counters to counters. I don't always get us the win, and I am by no means perfect, but my team is 9 times out of 10 prepared for a multitude of things to happen in game before it's even happened. With my best wings and with most of these things thought of before hand we can usually adapt in game and over come, but against teams superior to us they can counter our counter so, again I'd rather not have things nerf'd for me.

Edited by OnLashoc, 31 May 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[TriggerhappySOB]

Mage man202, on 31 May 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

lol image working out the bugs with that
the cataphract jj's over the hill and you head shot it with a gauss rifle killing it. it tumbles to the ground and gets stuck in it, legs flailing about.
you sit back and enjoy the hilarious glicth

My good sir you just made my night with that mental image! to be fair though, this is the same engine that Crysis 2 (and eventually C3) runs on, and already has a Ragdoll effect. And i doubt it would be too difficult to make it work.
Lol "legs flailing about"
Makes me think of all the old loony toons and Tom & Jerry episodes I used to watch.

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

1 reasons poptarts is annoying becuase of MW4... Executuiner or the BK 4ERPPC LGauss 2ERLL JJ 0 heat sinks 40Kph .10 leg armour oh and not to forget that most servers in MW4 used to run NH UA and allows third persona perspective which is kind of funny bcasue they banned pulse lasers from NH UA servers for being "cheap" :\

[Arafinar]

Roland, on 31 May 2012 - 07:02 PM, said:

Short answer: Thing that lots of folks complained about because they couldn't manage to out maneuver the enemy.

Longer answer: In MW4, a popular "tactic" was to hide behind a ridge, and either walk or JJ up to the lip and fire on your target. (I put tactic in quotes, because this really doesn't constitute a tactic) This exploited a few aspects of game and was quite effective if your targets were foolish enough to just stand on the other edge to take it.

First, in games which didn't force a first person perspective, the shooter could just tilt his camera and see the guy he was going to shoot, without exposing himself at all. This gave a large advantage to the guy popping, since he could basically line up the shot prior to popping, while the target didn't know where he was going to appear.

Second, for folks with poor connections to the server, popping up over a wall or ridge made them fairly invincible, because by the time the target saw the enemy mech, he wasn't even there any more to the server. The server registered the hit during a period where the client actually was still rendering the enemy behind cover.

Finally, for quite a while (up until th BK expansion, if I recall), laser weapons actually had a bug in them that they didn't intersect with terrain. So it was possible to fire through hills. Even in FFP games, you could pop only the head of a mech and take a shot, even if the weapons themselves on the arms didn't clear the hill.

All of this added up to a technique that was widespread in MW4, and as a result, lots of folks cried about it.

The reality is though, it wasn't cheating (well, intentionally exploiting the hill bug kind of was), and good teams would just outmaneuver the guys who were trying to ridge snipe... often they'd be running exceptionally hot builds, with stripped leg armor, so if you got some fire on them from a flank they'd often break fast.

Also, lots of folks who did it weren't really any GOOD at it. We used to just yell "Pull!" and shoot them.

Main problem I had with jumpslugs was the "HitBox" exploit. If that wasnt there wouldnt
care if they played bouncy bouncy all day.

[BlindSide]

It was annoying at first in MW4 while adjusting to the new game mechanics, coming from mw2 an 3 to mw4. But lets face it while MW4 had its fun moments..... when you get right down to it mw4 gameplay was a blight on mechwarrior in my opinion. it was only mechwarrior/battletech by name alone. This isn't MW4 and from what I can see from screens an gamplay footage, I don't really see it as being a problem anytime soon. thats just my opinion tho.