94 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

5 LRM 20's face ****** people is not a problem, IF the heatscale wasnt so forgiving that firing those 5 LRM 20's + a fluid flush got you 2-3 kills in 1 shot.

there is more to this than simple "lrms are OP", this is a heat problem as well that goes right back to boating / firing TONS of big alphas in a row and getting away with it. Amplified now by fluid flush.

This is why mech3 made you explode if you fired more than X amount of guns in 1 alpha and went to hot.

[Voidcrafter]

Thontor, on 22 March 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

I struggle to make sense of your post... But I would hardly say having 3 of any weapon is a "boat" when I have two other weapons as well

The only issue I got with your logic is - if you put 3xLRM15s in your atlas, how much weight would you got to put something, that would be deadly enough to kill a med+ mech that came barely scratched in under 200m your range?
I've fought some of those and I don't exactly consider them dangerous with the any the other two weapons they got
It's a waste of ATLAS life force for me.

Edited by Voidcrafter, 22 March 2013 - 07:32 AM.

[truditu]

So I just took my Atlas d dc (sporting an lrm20 and a lrm15, 2 uac5s and 2mlas) for a ride for the first time after the hot "fix".
And daaaaaaaaamn.
I ended up on alpine peeks close to our base. I noticed a cent going for cap. This is a noobish cent right here, since he is completely alone, completely out in the open. So i start unloading on the man from about 500m and he panics and runs back to his team. He is running at about 70-80kph perpendicular to my direction. I got as close as 400m to him.
200 missiles i ulnoaded on the guy with a perfect LOS, nothing between us. Wanna guess what my damage was? 80 damage. 80 damage on a r'tard out in the open, his only defense, paniking and running away. 80 damage delt for 1.1 tons of ammo and during 20 seconds. And you call this fair? Balanced? This is the equivalent of 3.8 small lasers...

I perfectly agree that LRMS were OP. No doubt about that. But this... I died a little inside seeing this.
And this is why we can't have nice things...

[Pygar]

Otto Cannon, on 21 March 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

So perhaps the final fix next month will be somewhere between:

Before the current fix


and after the current fix

This sums things up about perfectly- I was pissed off the other day when missiles got their unintended buff....but yeah, don't want to see them get turned into a joke. Maybe a hotfix for the hotfix?

[Oni Ralas]

DDC is an excellent LRM platform.

[Terror Teddy]

You complain about LRM's?

Dude, get a Spider and boat machine guns - THEN I allow you to complain.

[truditu]

Machine guns are pretty much place holders just like the command console. Missiles are an entire fing class of weapons. You can only use missiles in missile slots. Does this makes sense to you? Can i make it clearer?

[MN03]

truditu, on 22 March 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Machine guns are pretty much place holders just like the command console. Missiles are an entire fing class of weapons. You can only use missiles in missile slots. Does this makes sense to you? Can i make it clearer?

Most of the people saying "Lrms are fine" are enjoying their dual gauss/AC20/UAC5/etc out in the open.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

MN03, on 22 March 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

I doubt you are using LRM only, I cant get that amount of damage with my 4xlrm15 and 5xML. And yes, I'm always the top dmg dealer (or second best) *brag brag*. 900dmg is pretty much impossible with LRMs (even 600 is difficult).

did you even play when splash damage was bugged?

[Praehotec8]

Signal27, on 21 March 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

I think the idea is that LRMs soften the target up before you or a friend closes in for the actual kill. They still have their place. But now instead of building LRM boats that carry nothing else, you've got to bring a different gun or two, to be able to finish somebody off after you've peppered them with LRMs.

If that's so, what is the benefit of taking them instead of other weapons that do the actual killing? No question, in the recent patch, LRMs were ridiculous, but every time I see this argument it just seems flawed. Playing in a PUG group I mostly fire direct LOS LRMs, and I want to be able to dish it out, and get kills sometimes. I can accept mostly weakening (and indeed, I often switch targets once mine is near death), but that doesn't mean that LRMs should be largely unable to get kills.

[MN03]

Battlecruiser, on 22 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

did you even play when splash damage was bugged?

Nevermind, I thought you were talking about post-hotfix.

[truditu]

Thontor, on 22 March 2013 - 08:45 AM, said:

For the tonnage they do just as much "killing" as other weapons of the same tonnage

Not true. You have to take in account the fact that not all missiles will hit, the enemy is on the move and so on. For an example see my ealrier post. 200 LRMs thrown at a centurion from 500m with line of site and no obstacles while he was moving. Total damage: 80.

[IrrelevantFish]

It seems most people here haven't read the official post on the hotfix. Allow me to quote the most relevant part:

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS MESSAGE:
This is a TEMPORARY fix to quell the damage done by missiles at this time.

In other words, the point of this hotfix wasn't to make things right, it was to make the game playable. So please, for the love of all things giant and stompy, put the whining on hold until April 3rd, because everything said here is going to become obsolete on April 2nd.

[Ilwrath]

IrrelevantFish, on 22 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

It seems most people here haven't read the official post on the hotfix. Allow me to quote the most relevant part:

In other words, the point of this hotfix wasn't to make things right, it was to make the game playable. So please, for the love of all things giant and stompy, put the whining on hold until April 3rd, because everything said here is going to become obsolete on April 2nd.

so... all those that say the missiles are as they should be now are just clueless and stupid?

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I would like to see PGI will implement splash dmg as splash which means it divide missile dmg between hitted parts...and not full dmg to each part in splash radius...

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

MN03, on 22 March 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Nevermind, I thought you were talking about post-hotfix.

I havent played at all since the 20th. got tired of waiting for the hotfix and bought civ5 to play.

after making about 10 mil with my catapult that is.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 22 March 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[IrrelevantFish]

Ilwrath, on 22 March 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

so... all those that say the missiles are as they should be now are just clueless and stupid?

No, they're just jumping the gun, same as those saying missiles aren't as they should be (although my post was directed more at the latter).

To put it another way, arguing about what's happening right now is like arguing about how to upgrade a diesel submarine's generator two weeks before it's decommissioned and we're all transferred to a nuclear sub. The next patch will fundamentally change the mechanics of missile damage, not just their stats, so there is little to be learned from this debate that will still apply when April 2nd rolls around.

Edited by IrrelevantFish, 22 March 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[truditu]

Thontor, on 22 March 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Missile accuracy against fast moving targets is a seperate issue that can be solved by other methods.

The damage is fine though.

I agree with you except that a cent going 80kph is not exactly what i consider a "fast" target. It's kinf of a "normal" target.

[Jordan Youngblood]

I think LRMs are about where they need to be at this time. I say this as someone that does use them. I do think a slight increase in damage from .7 per missile to 1 per missile would make it just right...and why doesn't everyone just calm down for a bit. There are additional changes coming, and the game still is beta, no matter how much money and time you throw at it or how impatient you are.

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

DO NOT HIT REPLY TO FREAKOUT YET!

It is at these levels that missile combat falls back to a level that we AND the community felt was right for a long period of time before the badness appeared. I'm going to ask you to help us test these values by FEEL. Not by playing SpreadsheetWarrior.


Missiles are STILL a very big threat to the target but just aren't doing these chart topping damage numbers.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF THIS MESSAGE:
This is a TEMPORARY fix to quell the damage done by missiles at this time. We are fully investigating the damage model AND focusing on the grouping of missiles and will update as soon as we can on how any changes will be managed/implemented.

[Royalewithcheese]

IMO this splash + TT base damage = perfect.