70 replies to this topic

[ryoma]

Poll then add comments for why.

Currently I find that my Jenner takes almost all damage to my CT, even when shot from the sides or from behind.

It seems a large portion of the torso is exposed from the rear and this makes it very hard to balance damage between zones like most of light mechs do.

Also the side torsos are very small, if they could cover an area similar in scale to a Cats side torsos I would be very happy.

Edited by ryoma, 19 April 2013 - 03:05 PM.

[ryoma]

Am I the only one piloting a Jenner?

In all my games I've never had a side torso blown out before my CT. I take miniscule damage to rear ST and die in at least a 5:1 ratio from CT:rear CT

[ryoma]

As you can see based on the hit boxes, it is very difficult to hit the spider, Commando, or Raven in the CT when firing from the side. The Jenner conversely has more CT surface area exposed at its side that arm, ST, and leg combined. Not only that, but I believe the Jenner is also the only light mech that has a size able portion of its CT visible from the rear.

My suggestions.
1. Make the rear section of the CT count as RCT like it is supposed to.
2. Extend the side torsos along some of the sides of the CT. Probably not to the extent of the Raven, but maybe more like the Catapult?

Edited by ryoma, 22 March 2013 - 08:01 PM.

[astinius]

I agree the jenner's ct hitbhox is a big downside with no real upsides in return. Especially with the streaks targeting mostly the ct.

[ryoma]

While, in the current state, I'm mostly safe from XL ST penetrations I believe it's unfair that Jenners cannot spread damage properly with their hulking huge CT.

[Mr Cartier]

This might, or probably is related to cat's hitbox some way. In a game I was out of ammo, and pressed myself to a wall with my best ability to protect my unarmored CT (my back was still armored). Yet a cicada, that was fighting a jagermech, managed to get potshots to my CT. From behind me.

I checked the mechlab for rear armour, and it should cover the crotch, but stilll...

In other games, I often turn sideways to take incoming fire with side torsos to ease the burden of my CT. Exept this still seems to do awfully lot to my CT instead of flanks, or even rear to that matter. Hence the turning manoveur seems a bit pointless...


Has anyone else seen anything odd with Cat's hitbox too?

Edited by Mr Cartier, 24 March 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[ryoma]

Ok it's Monday and devs are back! Let's hope one of them takes a look!

[One Medic Army]

Yeah, when I die in a Jenner to anything (other than pre-nerf streaks) it's from a CT kill, usually front but occasionally rear.
It'd be nice to have the hitboxes on the first set of mechs re-examined with regards to what PGI has learned, and what methodology they're using with the newer mechs.

It'd also be nice if my Trebuchets weren't so darn huge compared to lights, hunchbacks, and even heavies.

[Imagine Dragons]

Woe be the Jenner and the Dragon.

Obviously the Devs have something against Draconis mechs with emphasis on the large CTs...

Edited by XenomorphZZ, 28 March 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[PapaKilo]

I die to CT hits on pretty much every 'Mech I drive. That's just where most people aim, and where Streaks usually hit.

[Aim64C]

PapaKilo, on 28 March 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

I die to CT hits on pretty much every 'Mech I drive. That's just where most people aim, and where Streaks usually hit.

This is true.

However, the Jenner is ridiculously difficult to implement any kind of damage control in your piloting.

I am glad to see I am not the only one who was tearing my hair out over the issue.

Which... I kind of wondered if it was even right for me to be upset about. My K/D ratio in my jenners are higher than they are in my Catapult filled with game-breaking LRMs. It's not uncommon for me to run five kills in a match - which was rare in my catapults even when LRMs had all the fun of splash damage.

So... I wondered if it was just an "LTP issue" when I found that I was pretty much doomed any time I came across a mech armed with streaks.

And half of those are ravens with ECM (or some ECM mech in support). So I can't really even begin to 'fight back' with streaks in return. I carry standard SRMs for the very reason that they can be used regardless of ECM and I don't have to equip TAG just to make them worthwhile in a few encounters.

Which is relatively frustrating.

True: "What are you doing alone?" ... The same can be said for that guy... what is he doing alone, away from his team.... scouting or hunting scouts? In a scout mech?

So - I'm a little torn on the issue. One look at my performance in my jenner shows that I really don't need any developer intervention to make it an effective platform.

On the other hand - if something has streaks... I'm dead - unless I'm lucky (such as they have a HUD glitch), or they suck. Streaks will nail my front center torso from -behind- almost every time. Even from the sides - it seems to be about a 50/50 split between arms and CT. Unless they are a light design that skimps on the engine... there's no way I'm going to out-run them (maybe once I unlock speed tweak- but even then, half of these guys seem to be nut-to-butt with me while I'm in full retreat) - and they have a very steep advantage when it comes to delivering firepower on target.

Even the wonky hitbox, I can deal with. It's got a big center torso - kind of like a catapult or madcat, only smaller. What frustrates the bejesus out of me is how I am just not finding any real way to increase my odds of survival when dealing with a light mech armed with streaks. I can't even direct the things to hit my rear armor (okay, maybe one out of the volley of 4-6 hits my rear armor instead of magi-killing my front).

That's my main issue. I'm doing something wrong if I'm getting hit by lasers and autocannons to begin with. I'll accept the large CT in that regard... but streaks being almost magically guided in on the -front- CT of the Jenner is just a bit much. At least let me be able to get shot in the back while running away from a raven like a little *****.

[Yiazmat]

agreed. ct takes to much fire in my poor Jenner.

[ryoma]

Agreed with Aim64c on it being my mistake when hit by autocannons in the first place, but when I am hit by them from behind I usually take the damage to my front. Also lasers from behind also hit my front.

Edited by ryoma, 28 March 2013 - 09:32 PM.

[Aim64C]

ryoma, on 28 March 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Agreed with Aim64c on it being my mistake when hit by autocannons in the first place, but when I am hit by them from behind I usually take the damage to my front. Also lasers from behind also hit my front.

I've noticed this... but I'm not quite as upset by it. I'm usually pretty decent at avoiding that kind of fire (doesn't mean it's 'correct' to allow it to continue). Streaks just seem to auto-core, period. Maybe I need to play a raven with streaks and kill a few jenners before I truly get a balanced view - but from the experience I do have... streaks seem way too effective against Jenners.

Yeah - I'm -probably- going to die against a good light pilot with streaks in a Jenner unless some very unreasonable adjusting to the hitboxes is done. That's what streaks are good for - killing light mechs, particularly ones with large center torso hit boxes. But right now... it's just... "Eh... even if I do make it back to my team - I'm a guaranteed kill for him. End of story."

Maybe there's a trick I haven't found yet... or some wisdom yet to be discovered amidst my experience ... but I'm currently siding with Jenners needing a little tweaking to have any kind of chance at merely surviving an ecnounter with a streak-equipped light. It's not even "having a fair chance to win" - it's just having a fair chance to simply not die.

For comparison, I've blitzed straight through the core of an enemy team in the tunnel on Frozen City... as the only target available to them - and survived. Wasn't the most graceful of survivals - but I didn't have much choice since stopping in the middle of the tunnel to turn around would have netted me god only knows what in direct fire.

A single commando with three SSRM2s is almost a certain death sentence if he happens to go for the same resource capture as I do. Assuming he knows what he's doing - he'll core me before I can out-gun him... because all of his SRMs go to my CT and even if I were packing streaks - he can still torso twist to defend effectively.

I know I'm preaching to the chior... but I'm tired... and this is what happens when I get tired. I lecture/rant/ramble.

[Yiazmat]

Now that I'm home, I can take a better invantory of my Jenner. Here're my findings:

From behind, the Jenner Rear CT is only that small hexagonal rhombus in the center. From behind, the SRM rack and spoiler are all FRONT CENTER TORSO. Shooting the rear "pelvis" actually hits the RCT. What's more, from the front, the 'head' of the Jenner not including the actual cockpit (which is the glass) but the full head itself is all CT. Confirmed this in the testing grounds trial Jenner out there. When I shoot the 'head', spicifically to the left and right of the cockpit, it is the CT I hit. While I'm not going to dig into actual percentages, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 55% of the entire Jenner mech is Center Torso. It's flipping massive. Way bigger than the Dragon or Awesome CT's, puportionally.

While Iove being a squirrel mech, still, common. Anyone slinging rounds at a Jenner is going to burn its CT out before anything else.

Edited by Yiazmat, 28 March 2013 - 11:42 PM.

[GHQCommander]

I had two battles in a row where my CT suffered 100% damage and the rest of my mech showed no damage at all in the overlay.I was not standing still and in each battle I only took 3-4 hits/attacks. It was for sure as if the side on attacks delivered serious damage to the CT.

PC gamers want more components in their machines in space sims or mech type games. We can handle more information on our HUD, we can handle more technical information about the machine we pilot in a game and our peripherals offer far more than what they did in the early mech games.

So how about just a little more control over our systems and more components to take individual damage. Spread CT damage out in a way that seriously compromises our ability but does not take us out of the game 100%. One idea I have is our cockpit being ripped open and obviously we no longer have any type of targeting. We can move, we can shoot in an insane way but we can capture and exist as canon fodder for the team. This would happen at the current stage where our Jenner is taking out. A sort of last chance.

I know it won't happen. I'm just sadened that the developers have designed the games damage overlay etc much as they were many years ago. As if we are all a bunch of old farts and can't handle a little more. A little realism. Their rigid and old fashioned approach will bite them.

Hell even racing car games expose players to more individual component damage and space simulators with serious PvP (Star Citizen being the next big one) also put players, plus their touch screen voice activated peripherals through their paces.

I fear this game might look and play in a very old fashioned way. Mechs like Jenner with large sticking out CP will have no realism if they are to somehow reduce damage to the CT or continue to allow the CT to take heavy damage. It is a no win. I mean why the hell would a race of any kind design a mech that can take such damage, it doesn't make any sense and common sense is what gamers expect today.

[EmperorMyrf]

I find that the easiest light mech to take down is the Jenner, and for this very reason. Hitting the CT is far too easy, and I doubt you can put enough armor on it to compensate

[astinius]

I as well can handle the over sized CT, in all regards minus the magical CT finding streaks.

[Jay Z]

I have all 3 jenners mastered and a stalker as a 4th mech. I honestly do not think it is that bad. You can compensate by zig zagging slightly and trying to dodge ACs. As for streaks, killing the enemy is more important. Go for the legs, then the other one.

A dead light fires no streaks.

Jenners have he advantage of more firepower, speed, jumpjets and twist. Use them to compensate for the vulnerable CT. If the hitbox was changed then the Jenner would be the next 3L (which we can now beat already since the latest patch). As it is, my worst K/D is about 1.4 for the D and up to 2 for the F. The Jenner is fine as is and does not need much help.

[Aim64C]

Jay Z, on 30 March 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

The Jenner is fine as is and does not need much help.

The issue isn't whether or not the Jenner "needs help."

The Jenner's front center torso can be hit from behind - and frequently is by streaks. It's a platform that is practically hard-countered by anything with streaks.

A dead mech may fire no streaks, but a good pilot is going to utilize the very same tactics you describe to extend his/her own life, while they also have a weapon that zeroes in on your center torso (which can be hit from behind, mind you). Sure - you can use your sides to absorb damage... but that only works about 50% of the time. And it's not like he has to be sitting there mashing the button, either - he can simply wait for you to bring your own weapons to face him before popping you in the face with them (and reaction times are not fast enough to prevent a hit to the CT).

If you are in a Jenner, and a mech shows up with more streaks than a block party - you run and hope he isn't fast enough to stay in range. If he is - you die. End of story.

If you survive it's because the streak pilot was of skill nowhere near the level of your own, or he was mostly dead when he showed up. A larger mech with streaks, you might be able to get away with - but Streaks are more or less supposed to be the bane of light mechs, so you're playing with fire when you do that.