10 replies to this topic

[MasterErrant]

the AC2s speed is far too high the Gauss is far too low. a suoped up 30MM cannon round in RT has a MV of about 1100 MPS MGs should be around 600mps ac 5's and 2s should be something like 900-1400 10s and 20s around 600.

currently an ac2 fired at 2000 meters takes less then a second to reach it's target. requires little lead and elevation. that that ranfe the bullet drop should be a couple of meters at least.

ac should be incapable of accurate shooting at beyond their Range. this is simple science. Gauss weapons shoul be the fastest projectiles.

for that matter LRMs are so slow that they wouldn't even be a threat in the real world I doubt that they would be capable of flying straight. wait a minute that's what you want...after the people spending rhe most money are the exploiters aren't they.

I'm not asking for realism. I asking for consistency. the time of flight of shots ten seconds for lrms at max range 1 for an act and almost two for a gauss (The fastest shooting thing in the game. ACs have already been buffed to the highest damage weapons in the game in the time it takes to land one lrm salvo an ac2 has firrd 34.5 shots.in that same time the lrm has fired less thn five salvos and hit with one.
(At 1000 meters.) 2000MPS is an extraordinary velocite for a conventional cannon. and this performance. as os the ability to get presicion accuracy at ranges double or triple the weapons long range. I don't have a problem with weapons doing damage beyong their long range... but it should be reduced damage and far less accurate.

Players are always whining about missiles but I have been killed by extreme range sniping more ofter than SRM.s I was just killed before firing a shot by ac2 hits to the head from a range so far the mech looked like three or four pixels glowing on thermal.

This is wrong, it's not battletech, and it's not balanced gameplay.

Edited by MasterErrant, 22 March 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Lord Psycho]

Every time I see people want to exact what they see or theoretical see in the real world and compare it to MWO I cringe a little....

the missiles are supposed to be shot out and follow some sort of ballistic trajectory when they fall back down. granted they aren't fired down the same line but I hope the missiles are manufactured in such a way to not all scatter that much near impact.

[Stingz]

The BT universe has literally nuked itself back to the stone-age earlier in the timeline(Age of War , happens again later on by WoB in 3067).

Don't expect much realism here, if any at all.

Edited by Stingz, 22 March 2013 - 12:18 PM.

[Huron Fal]

Lord Psycho, on 22 March 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Every time I see people want to exact what they see or theoretical see in the real world and compare it to MWO I cringe a little....

the missiles are supposed to be shot out and follow some sort of ballistic trajectory when they fall back down. granted they aren't fired down the same line but I hope the missiles are manufactured in such a way to not all scatter that much near impact.

not to mention real missles travel WAY faster than our missles

[TheRulesLawyer]

Weapons speed relate to their relative accuracy at range, not actual travel time IRL.

[MasterErrant]

TheRulesLawyer

I trained as a gunsmith I know a bit agout ballistics IRL muzzle velocity combined with projectile mass and cross section (Design as well) all relate to both accuracy and travel time. a slow projectile is harder to hit with both because the target can move further during it's flight and because slower bullets drop more during flight and are more affected by winds ETC.

that said the AC2 shoots far faster than any likely conventional gun and the Gauss shoots far slower
swap the ac2 and the gauss and then swap the ac 2 and the ac5 and it would be closer to reasonable.

2000MPS is 6,565FPS about half again faster than the fastes firing non research gus. that's about where I place the gauss (Since it fires such a large projectile)
1300MPS =4,267.25 FPS that's really really fast for a conventional gun and would only be seen in something firing a SABOT round which doesn't exist in BT.

I think 1300/1100/900/750 would be good numbers unless they keep using the big bore AC20 which is basically a "Stump mortar" firing a bit very slow explosive projectile.

[MasterErrant]

Lord Psycho

the RT references aren't there to do anything but give a frame of reference. the lrms are too slow compared to the ROF and flight time of AC's Rockets always fire in a fairly hight arc. unless they are veery very fast )(A such are very short ranged. ( Hmm sounds like SRMs?) the ROF math avove is valid. and it points out the problem.


they keep playing with the damage model of missiles when it's really the speed and accuracy that's the problem
Lrms should be very accurate..they are basically the mod]st accurate weapon in the game. but they are designed to spread and saturate a target rasther that strike with tight grouping.
so double the speed more accuracy and a loose spread. We only expcect to hit with 40-60% of each salvo

Edited by MasterErrant, 23 March 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Duncan Longwood]

I gotta say it's just a game. I'm not sure how making ballistics more realistic to a 2013 timeline has any basis on making an imaginary 3050 world more real. Maybe they make bullets out of some material not found on earth with some space-age future propellant? I don't think most people care about IRL ballistics. Do you think we should have to account for bullet drop, temperature and humidity, windage and elevation, as well as rifle-twist, barrel length and projectile weight? Even if the game had all that, wouldn't my targeting computer just figure it all out for me so I just put the cross-hair on you like normal?

Edit: Had to say that if you got headshot by AC2's when you had zero dmg, you are doing it wrong. It takes 19 AC2 bullets hitting your head to kill you, so what were you doing, poking your head out without moving? IRL you would have gotten sniped too.

Edited by Duncan Longwood, 23 March 2013 - 02:31 PM.

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

I want a Giant stompy mech for Xmas !!!

Edited by Shadowpunisher, 23 March 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Lord Psycho]

I think with the acceleration profiles of the missiles the fact that you can fire missiles without any kickback is amazing...but then again the ballistics weapons don't either.

By and by, the Inner Sphere LRMs are supposed to function this way in nice ballistic arcs that have a certain amount of spread but not too much to account for each missile in the group.

The Clan LRMs are a different story...I hear they move straight outfrom your mech then home in...now...if you don't want your Inner Sphere and Clan toys mixed up..then fine by me.

I frankly think the Gauss Rifle is fine right now beside the fact it's a fragile puppy. energy consideration wise each point of damage was supposed to be 1 gigajoule so 15 gigajoules of energy at wahtever projectile velocity is how massive of a projectile?

Right..I didn't care. but it's 10 shots per ammo and no casing for Gauss Rifles so it's around 200 lbs so about 90.1 kgs....frankly I'm not too concrned about this..I'm going to grade my aerospace student's papers. I'll do these back of the envelope calculations later.

[RoboPatton]

I run the Gauss from time to time. It's pretty slow moving, I always thought from the TT games it was a projectile that traveled lightning fast.

Right now, in most scenarios I would suggest AC20 > Gauss.

At least increase the range a little on it. Hell, lower the ammo stack to compensate. It's just not the feared weapon it used to be.

Edited by RoboPatton, 28 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.