39 replies to this topic

[Grim Omens]

Also for anyone that does not get the pun. Here is the definition. http://www.merriam-w...ictionary/break

So one last time on the number crunch. 240 points of damage in 1 minute. 400 points of damage in 54 seconds. This is when you are playing with friends and have both arti consumables. Now I ask PGI, how does that seem remotely fair over such a concentrated area?

[BLUPRNT]

Every one seems to be more concerned about damage over time assuming you can even make contact.

How often does one actually impact a target with dumb fired LRM's that travel to target location in a fraction of 6.5 secs. (the time that it would take an Arty Strike to even begin) plus the time duration of completed impact.

Do they sound powerful? Yes.

Are you actually going to be able to make the powerful impact you hope? Not likely?

I wonder what the stats are for damage done to the amount of dumb fired missles?

Even an Atlas can move 50m in less than 6.5secs. Unless he's standing still and of course we all know how damaging that can be from any weapon. And remember there will be a smoke cloud indicating the incoming.

Where there is smoke there is fire. GET OUT!

Edited by BLUPRNT, 22 March 2013 - 01:38 PM.

[Grim Omens]

BLUPRNT, on 22 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Every one seems to be more concerned about damage over time assuming you can even make contact.

How often does one actually impact a target with dumb fired LRM's that travel to target location in a fraction of 6.5 secs. (the time that it would take an Arty Strike to even begin) plus the time duration of completed impact.

Do they sound powerful? Yes.

Are you actually going to be able to make the powerful impact you hope? Not likely?

I wonder what the stats are for damage done to the amount of dumb fired missles?

Even an Atlas can move 50m in less than 6.5secs. Unless he's standing still and of course we all know how damaging that can be from any weapon. And remember there will be a smoke cloud indicating the incoming.

Where there is smoke there is fire. GET OUT!

Damage done by missles are here http://mwomercs.com/...erver-downtime/

Atlas moving that far? You're assuming he has no other targets around. Again I bring the up scenario of the kamikazee person who spots the whole enemy team and runs in by himself to just die and get his strike off.

And again, there is splash for Arti so...

[Jonathan Paine]

48 kp/h (48000/3600) equals 13.33 meters per second. Reckon a worst case scenario of 1 second reaction time. Figure that the Atlas needs at least 0.5 seconds to accelerate to "speed". This leaves 5 seconds to get out of Dodge. 5 times 13.33 is 66.5 meters. Our intrepid Atlas is safe... unless he is facing the smoke, roughly 20 meters away and needs to turn before running. In this case, he will take damage. Anyone moving at somewhat less than 48 kp/h is "#¤"#¤¤ out of luck.

As for the damage example, we simply don't know what 10 splash damage will do to a 'mech. Is it max 10 for a direct hit? Is it 10 damage to every component within splash (remember that SSRM used to do 2.5 points of splash damage...)?

Figure in an assault lance of maybe 4 mechs? Figure in a couple of mediums? Figure in collision detection, knockdowns. Figure in overheating.

I think we will be living in "interesting" times when this is implemented.

[Satan n stuff]

BLUPRNT, on 22 March 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Every one seems to be more concerned about damage over time assuming you can even make contact.

How often does one actually impact a target with dumb fired LRM's that travel to target location in a fraction of 6.5 secs. (the time that it would take an Arty Strike to even begin) plus the time duration of completed impact.

Do they sound powerful? Yes.

Are you actually going to be able to make the powerful impact you hope? Not likely?

I wonder what the stats are for damage done to the amount of dumb fired missles?

Even an Atlas can move 50m in less than 6.5secs. Unless he's standing still and of course we all know how damaging that can be from any weapon. And remember there will be a smoke cloud indicating the incoming.

Where there is smoke there is fire. GET OUT!

The big problem is gonna be airstrikes which will hit along a 200M line starting at the target location in whatever direction the player who called the airstrike was looking when he called it, so it will be hard to tell whether you're in the line of fire or not. Assaults won't be able to move nearly fast enough to get out of the area in time and with splash damage the damage on them will be outrageous, even if it's likely only one hit per target. Think 50 or so for a direct hit, now call a position right in the middle or right behind the enemy assaults and see what happens. Hell calling a position right behind an atlas or stalker will make it impossible to escape an artillery strike unless the team is on voice comms or they can type really fast.

[BLUPRNT]

Grim Omens, on 22 March 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

Damage done by missles are here http://mwomercs.com/...erver-downtime/

Atlas moving that far? You're assuming he has no other targets around. Again I bring the up scenario of the kamikazee person who spots the whole enemy team and runs in by himself to just die and get his strike off.

And again, there is splash for Arti so...

How often have you seen a player with a LRM platform with TAG run to a swarm of enemy's and unload al hell until he dies. I haven't seen one do this volunteeraly. Maybe by accident as they did not think the plan ahead. In fact a sacrificed player in this game happens as I have done so myself. But to suicide to get off a one shot (that may or may not work plus the cost of rearm) is probably not going to happen often enough that I would be worring about it. The suicidal Splatcat scares me more. Any player who runs into a swarm to unload his fire power can do a lot more damage with it in the time it takes him down. As I said, this does not happen often enough for me to be worried though.

Edited by BLUPRNT, 22 March 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

they already said only 1 arty strike can be active at a time.
probably for the air strikes too

[xGilliedupx]

***** n stuff, on 22 March 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

The big problem is gonna be airstrikes which will hit along a 200M line starting at the target location in whatever direction the player who called the airstrike was looking when he called it, so it will be hard to tell whether you're in the line of fire or not. Assaults won't be able to move nearly fast enough to get out of the area in time and with splash damage the damage on them will be outrageous, even if it's likely only one hit per target. Think 50 or so for a direct hit, now call a position right in the middle or right behind the enemy assaults and see what happens. Hell calling a position right behind an atlas or stalker will make it impossible to escape an artillery strike unless the team is on voice comms or they can type really fast.

Just loop around the enemy team then call in a air strike down the path they are walking. Now its really hard to see that a strike was call because the smoke is behind them and the enemy are more or less walking right into the fire.

[BLUPRNT]

***** n stuff, on 22 March 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

The big problem is gonna be airstrikes which will hit along a 200M line starting at the target location in whatever direction the player who called the airstrike was looking when he called it, so it will be hard to tell whether you're in the line of fire or not. Assaults won't be able to move nearly fast enough to get out of the area in time and with splash damage the damage on them will be outrageous, even if it's likely only one hit per target. Think 50 or so for a direct hit, now call a position right in the middle or right behind the enemy assaults and see what happens. Hell calling a position right behind an atlas or stalker will make it impossible to escape an artillery strike unless the team is on voice comms or they can type really fast.

Yes 200 meters in a straight line is a large distance to travel in a short time. Worst case scenario in this is that you do not know in which direction this 180 degree line is. As long as you know its coming start moving and at this point you have a 1 in 180 chance that you chose the wrong diredtion. If you take it account the options a variuos degress from this line than that would include math that I am not qualified to give.
As far as other stituations you have mentioned how many times has a plan in coordinated strike worked? Not every, I'm sure.

[Byk]

A damaging weapon we can equip on our mechs that doesn't cost any weight or critical space? That sounds fantastic. Not. I hate the idea of artillery strikes in the game modes we have now. Team death match should just be mech vs mech fighting, with whatever they load in. Having artillery strikes mixed in just feels so cheap. It would be much better suited to different game modes than the ones we have currently.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PANZERBUNNY, on 22 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Arty and strikes has its place to break up death blobs and bunker blobs.

It's probably going to attack a grid coordinate and is VERY innacurate. It'll act as interesting suppressing fire.

There should never be an MC cost for arty or air strikes. Strictly C-Bills. (Though we know MC cost for the "better" ones are coming.)

cant wait to see the MC cost on 3rd person

[xRaeder]

PANZERBUNNY, on 22 March 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Arty and strikes has its place to break up death blobs and bunker blobs.

It's probably going to attack a grid coordinate and is VERY innacurate. It'll act as interesting suppressing fire.

There should never be an MC cost for arty or air strikes. Strictly C-Bills. (Though we know MC cost for the "better" ones are coming.)

But stupid to even put in a game that has small maps and 8 Mechs per side. We were promised at least 12v12... where is that at?

[Grim Omens]

xRaeder, on 22 March 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

But stupid to even put in a game that has small maps and 8 Mechs per side. We were promised at least 12v12... where is that at?

Meh that brings up a different issue

[Culler]

I'm just saying that even with the best possible with 10 shells and no overlap, you have 7850 square meters of area to hit and only 3140 square meters actually hit by any kind of damage, so over half of the area hit by the strike will take no damage at all. So you're at around a 40% chance of taking any damage at all from an artillery strike.

Then you look at how much damage a hit mech is taking and see that only 78.5 square meters of each hit will take 5 or more damage compared to the 235.5 square meters in which the shell is doing 5 or less damage. So you only have a 33% chance when you take damage of taking more than 5. So overall you have a 13% chance to take more than 5 damage from the strongest artillery strike available. Hardly game breaking. Even if there is overlap that won't really change the average, just increase the high end and probability of the low end.

So here's you average artillery strike: You call it in on 5 mechs because you have a really great cluster of enemies to hit (you don't often see 5 mechs in 50m) and you hit 2 of them for less than 5 damage each at significant c-bill or MC cost to you. Wheeee.

It really is more of a psychological weapon than anything else once you crunch the numbers.

[Jay Kerensky]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 22 March 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

If a train is traveling west at 70 kph towards Boston...

Holy Crap - No one told me PGI were implementing trains to Boston - That's SO OP!

[S3dition]

All it's going to do is make range spamming more difficult. There is going to be a lot of blue on blue as pugs launch into brawls.

[Nidhoggr]

Culler, on 22 March 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

I'm just saying that even with the best possible with 10 shells and no overlap, you have 7850 square meters of area to hit and only 3140 square meters actually hit by any kind of damage, so over half of the area hit by the strike will take no damage at all. So you're at around a 40% chance of taking any damage at all from an artillery strike.

Then you look at how much damage a hit mech is taking and see that only 78.5 square meters of each hit will take 5 or more damage compared to the 235.5 square meters in which the shell is doing 5 or less damage. So you only have a 33% chance when you take damage of taking more than 5. So overall you have a 13% chance to take more than 5 damage from the strongest artillery strike available. Hardly game breaking. Even if there is overlap that won't really change the average, just increase the high end and probability of the low end.

So here's you average artillery strike: You call it in on 5 mechs because you have a really great cluster of enemies to hit (you don't often see 5 mechs in 50m) and you hit 2 of them for less than 5 damage each at significant c-bill or MC cost to you. Wheeee.

It really is more of a psychological weapon than anything else once you crunch the numbers.

This. The problem with the OP's calculus is that it's extremely unlikely that any mech would ever be hit by every single shell, so the amount of damage being listed is a drastic overstatement.

Edited by Nidhoggr, 22 March 2013 - 08:54 PM.

[S3dition]

Nidhoggr, on 22 March 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

This. The problem with the OP's calculus is that it's extremely unlikely that any mech would ever be hit by every single shell, so the amount of damage being listed is a drastic overstatement.

Greatly overestimated. It assumes every shell will land on top of the same mech, and it won't move.

[Grim Omens]

Nidhoggr, on 22 March 2013 - 08:53 PM, said:

This. The problem with the OP's calculus is that it's extremely unlikely that any mech would ever be hit by every single shell, so the amount of damage being listed is a drastic overstatement.

Even if not all shells hit you. Lets just say two shells hit you at the very least and you're in a light, that amount of damage could potentially destoy your legs. Just imagine what happens for all those poeple who put ammo in their legs in lights or mediums!

Edited by Grim Omens, 23 March 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Culler]

Grim Omens, on 23 March 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

Even if not all shells hit you. Lets just say two shells hit you at the very least and you're in a light, that amount of damage could potentially destoy your legs. Just imagine what happens for all those poeple who put ammo in their legs in lights or mediums!

The likelihood of a single shell hitting you directly is (generously assuming a large circle-shaped mech) only about 0.13% That's about 1 in every 800 artillery strikes that hit you. The likelihood of being hit twice (assuming it's even possible to overlap) is going to be roughly 0.016%, or roughly 1 in every 6,250 artillery strikes. It's possible, sure, but ridiculously unlikely. As in, you could play MWO with artillery flying all over the place a few hours every day for a year and have this double-hit scenario come up maybe once.

Your concerns are completely unfounded.