175 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Player retention is an important topic for PGI. They observe that some of their target audience drop out early, or so Bryan Eckman said in the 3rd person perspective.

So, what are the reasons for this

Mechwarrior Online is certainly a complex game:
o Multiple weapon groupings to control
o Heat Management
o Torso can twist independently from leg movement direction
o Separate Torso and Arm Movement
o Weapons with differences ranges, including minimum ranges.

All this is combined with
o No ingame Tutorial at all to systematically teach controls to the player
o Beginner Mechs are designed for the table top Battletech game, and highly unsuited to the Mechwarrior Online adaptation of the mechanics. THis means they often have low armour values, almost always have low ammo values,and they are equipped with loadouts of standard heat sinks that where suited for the table top game heat output of the mech's weapons, but not for the MW:O heat output of the mech's weapons.
o PVP from the start, meaning you get thrown in with the wolves,so to speak.
o One of the most exciting game features - mech lab customization of the mech - is available only very late in the game.

All of this is complex and it can even be complex for people that "know" first person shooters, flight simulators or the table top game.

What else do you think is hard on players?
What would you do to address things?

---
I mean, one thing seems obvious. We really need a real tutorial. If you have any idea how to design this tutorial, make sure to mention it.

There are two avenues for me to deal with the trial mech thingy:
1) Rebalance the game so that stock loadouts at least work heat-wise and have sufficient ammo for their weaponry.
2) Make all Trial Mechs custom designed builds (see Build Heavy Mech Trial challenge) suited for the MW:O game mechanics.

[W i l d c a t]

Include a stock-only game mode.

[Rabid Imp]

custom trial mechs would be nice, the normal trial mechs really do blow.

[MustrumRidcully]

Wildcat2013, on 23 March 2013 - 03:00 AM, said:

Include a stock-only game mode.

How would this help?

I don't think the problem with the stock modes is that they are bad against custom designs. It's that they are bad and lead to lots of shutdowns or out of ammo situations that are frustrating.

Edit: The mistake with stock mechs is less (but also) about that you send a guy in race with a volkswagen bug in a race against formula one racers, it's more about giving someone a Porsche 911 with a leaky gas tank and a steering wheel with a broken servo steering against formula one racers. The player would probably understand why his car is slower than those Formula One cars, but he won't understand why he has to refuel so often and why the steering so hard.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 23 March 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Victor Morson]

Trial 'mechs are a flawed and stupid system.

We said this over and over and what would happen - killing if not obliterating interest - by forcing people into a flat out inferior 'mech and making them die over and over.

I would be really curious to know how many people drop MC immediately to get out of trial 'mechs (their whole point) versus how many people that just leave the game because of this.

If they had just given people a starting 'mech of their own to hook them into the customization aspects - rather than forcing them to spend time in hideous unfairly designed 'mechs - they would have avoided tons of this.

Quite frankly, the whole greedy trial 'mech system was the wrong way to go about making money and a good way to go about damaging your new player's interest. It should be dropped in favor of starter 'mechs. Perhaps starters could offer a -25% cbill reward for finishing matches, encouraging pilots to upgrade to a new 'mech ASAP. At least then they would be in a 'mech that isn't a huge newbie-punishment device.

EDIT: Seriously not only do they stick newbies in stocks, but they stick them in the WORST stocks. They were giving out a Raven that would explode in two shots at one point! If these people know nothing of MW:O they'll probably assume everyone else bought power. It's a terrible design decision, and has been one of the most flawed things added to them game in it's entire run.

EDIT 2: I really hope stuff like "arm lock" wasn't their attempt to counter why newbie interest falls off. It falls off because, like everyone said it would, you force people into inferior death traps for their first few hours of the game. Nobody is going to get involved in a game where they have to spend hours with the odds stacked against them. It's mind boggling why they thought this would make them money.

Edited by Victor Morson, 23 March 2013 - 03:17 AM.

[Irvine]

My friends wont play because of two reasons:

One(and this is the big one) it is laggy/low fps even on higher end machines. Secondly it is a game with a steep learning curve.

[slide]

The first mistake people will make is assuming that this is like some other FPS. All of the OP's points pretty much confirm this.

A video or even an instruction manual explaining where Battlemechs come from, why they exist, why tech seems backwards at times. Explaining factions and politics in the Inner Sphere, why every one is at each others throats all the time. Make use of the back story to give people some feel for the universe. Some thing along the lines to the opening sequence in Homeworld or even MW4 or even like the intro to the Star Wars movies would be great. Any thing to set the scene.

Back that up by a descent tutorial in the training grounds and the chance to play in mechlab in the triaining ground, this would give people a goal to work to as they grind out their first mech.

It's fair to say that anyone who is a Founder has a pretty good idea of what BT is about, anyone else who has never been involved won't have a clue as to why this game exists and what it's purpose is. Give new people something to explore and invest their time in, other than blowing stuff up. I expect by the time anyone has leveled up 2 or 3 mechs is probably getting bored of the same old thing, hence why they leave.

[Elizander]

As long as we have 1 custom trial each cycle we will be fine. Put a flashing gold border around it so newbies click it right away instead of the others!

Edited by Elizander, 23 March 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[buttmonkey]

i strongly beleieve its the lack of any in game communication

seriously there is NOTHING!!!

no guilds for people to join,
no general chat for people to find friends
no in game communication

ok theres voip but who the hell uses it.
theres ts3 but thats no help for people who dont have it.

the game DESPERATELY needs to have the same systems as every single other online multiplayer game.

lets use wow as an example just because everybody knows it ok.
a total noob can download, login and see people talking on general or trade and join in,
they can ask in these channels for a guild and find one relatively quickly, or even use the guild finder.
more importantly they feel like they are not playing on their own!

compare this to mwo, you login and what? there is no way to find a group other than clicking launch, and lets be honest people rarely talk during matches on account of all the pew pew

i can totally understand why people join then leave quickly because there is no human interaction at all outside of matches and barely any inside of matches!

we desperately need a lobby before dropping and in game chat systems that function the same as wows, star trek online, swoto... need the list go on?

[Cascal]

Well speaking from experience, a friend asked me recently about mechwarrior online and if it was fun. Now here comes the funny part, you guys have to guess which of these answers was my real one and which is an alternative reality bizarro land answer:

Alternative no1

"Man you should check it out! The gameplay is really solid, it is coming along great in the beta, they are adding new stuff regularly, and community warfare is just around the corner! The developers have a lot of respect for the fans and founders and they actually listen to what they have to say, so people agree with most of the changes in the game. It is really fun, we should play together tonight!"

Alternative no2

"The gameplay is fun, but man has the last months been dissapointing. The devs have gone back on alot of promises they made, making changes nobody wants, and basically saying the betatesters who helped finance the game isn't their main focus anymore. They have no integrity, no trust and it seems to be going downhill from here. I guess you could try it out, but don't expect too much, there is a lot that isn't in the game yet."

Which answer do you think new players interested in MWO hears the most? Take a wild guess!

[Thirdstar]

Irvine, on 23 March 2013 - 03:14 AM, said:

My friends wont play because of two reasons:

One(and this is the big one) it is laggy/low fps even on higher end machines. Secondly it is a game with a steep learning curve.

Seconded. Before the Testing Grounds were implemented I had a few friends try out the game. All three up and quit after dropping into a few matches. They didn't rage or whine, they just pointed out that they'd perhaps be back when the game has a proper tutorial so that they could have SOME idea of what to do.

As to the stock mech issue, I really think giving new players a customizable light right at the start would go a long way towards keeping people interested.

[Sephlock]

Trial mechs, lack of familiarity with game mechanics.

Thats about it, in a nutshell.

[W i l d c a t]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

How would this help?

New Players would have better chances with trial mechs if they are playing versus other stock variants.
I bet a lot of players, at least me , would jump at the chance to play a 'proper' BT with the canon variants only.
Heck, maybe this would also be advantageous for PGI, as some people would collect two mechs of the same variant. One heavily customized for 'normal' play, one for the stock-only mode. I would...

[Signal27]

I have two friends who gave MWO a try, then stopped playing. I asked them why they didn't like the game, and they both had the same answer: "I don't like the controls." These are two people who've played previous Mechwarrior games.

With the most recent changes to the control options and including more joystick support, I need to ask them to give MWO a try and see what they think.

Edited by Signal27, 23 March 2013 - 06:39 AM.

[Demos]

Wildcat2013, on 23 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

New Players would have better chances with trial mechs if they are playing versus other stock variants.
I bet a lot of players, at least me , would jump at the chance to play a 'proper' BT with the canon variants only.
Heck, maybe this would also be advantageous for PGI, as some people would collect two mechs of the same variant. One heavily customized for 'normal' play, one for the stock-only mode. I would...

Me too!

[Thirdstar]

Wildcat2013, on 23 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

New Players would have better chances with trial mechs if they are playing versus other stock variants.

You mean everyone would overheat and run out of ammo equally? I dunno. Doesn't sound like a lot of fun for new players. Stock Only mode of play is fine by itself, it is not however a solution to improving the New Player Experience.

[RG Notch]

The continuing narrative of why new players quit is, based on what PGI has said and what most people who say their friends quit, is these people are morons. Torso twisting is to much for them to grasp. The learning curve is too high. Oh well lets basically dumb the game down so these folks can play. We've already had arm lock and throttle decay and 3rd person is coming. I say just get rid of heat management and weapon groups, just let every one alpha strike and make all weapons lock on and we'll have a huge hit on our hands.

[MuonNeutrino]

RG Notch, on 23 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

The continuing narrative of why new players quit is, based on what PGI has said and what most people who say their friends quit, is these people are morons. Torso twisting is to much for them to grasp. The learning curve is too high. Oh well lets basically dumb the game down so these folks can play. We've already had arm lock and throttle decay and 3rd person is coming. I say just get rid of heat management and weapon groups, just let every one alpha strike and make all weapons lock on and we'll have a huge hit on our hands.

Riiiight. You want to know why they leave? It's not because they're idiots who are incapable of grasping such elementary and simple gameplay elements - it's because they're given almost no instruction on what those gameplay elements mean (or even that they exist), and are then dropped straight into cutthroat PvP matches and have to try and figure out all of these things while getting ripped apart by people who a: already know all that, and b: have mechs 3 times better than theirs. Believe it or not, not everyone is some sort of intuitive genius who can instantly absorb the totality of a relatively complex gameplay system, especially one with so little documentation and such a hostile learning environment.

The vast majority of people who try this game are more than capable of learning these things. Not *all* humans are complete blithering idiots, despite what it may seem. The problem is that the game almost seems like it's *going out of its way* to make that leaning process as difficult as possible. It's not that people leave because they can't figure out the game. People leave because they have so little fun during that figuring out stage.

[Wolfyop]

a global chat per region outside of matches would help a lot, this way new players can ask question and dont feel like they dont have options to know how to play. There are good players that help others.

And yes make trial mech better.

Edited by Wolfyop, 23 March 2013 - 07:28 AM.

[meteorol]

You know what kills new player interests?
A sh*tty communtiy full of self proclaimed gods in flesh. Inappropriate elitism all over the place.
I can't count how many times i have seen players insult new players instead of telling them what they are doing wrong.
"Stupid f*cking PUGS, can't even walk a straight line" flames in global chat.
Guys offending their whole team for being bad instead of giving them tips.

I played Natural Selection 2 for 10 hours this weekend (free weekend on steam).
Experienced players giving tips to new once every match i played. It took me 2 matches to understand how the whole game is working because some experienced player took the commander role and told everyone what to do.
I didn't see a single insult because someone was playing bad in those 10 hours.
It would probably take less than 1 hour to see plenty of noobbashing in MWO.

Edited by meteorol, 23 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.