175 replies to this topic

[Psychokreep]

Possible solution:
Create new warrior server separate from mainstream servers with set targets and mobile targets on set runs to allow them time to get accustomed to weapon configurations, mech movements, etc.. This will be difficult because of creating said server but the benefits could be player retention.
Create limited battles of new players only or with experienced 'teachers' for feedback to get accustomed to team combat.

I'm no expert and I have no clue as to the coding required for such an undertaking but the possibility of retaining new players and for them to spread the word for potential gamers may be worth it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tutorial/documentation > stupid 3rd person view that splits the playerbase

[Tetatae Squawkins]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

I don't know, i have much more positive experiences.

And I'm sure 1000 people would be willing to tell me how horrible the STO community is. I agree that MWO needs a lobby system. But these things are only tangentially related.

[Chrithu]

Third person view is missing.

To fix that add a third person view so lot's of players come and play MWO.

It's an EASY formula so it MUST work.






I am deeply sorry for writing that. Really.

[Khell DarkWolf]

The game has no draw in.

There is no depth to hold newer players. We only have an arena battle sandbox mode. It gets old fast.

Top it off with limited content coming in a slow pace, no VOIP, its the reason we don't hold a newer player base.

Edited by Khell DarkWolf, 23 March 2013 - 09:38 AM.

[Byk]

Really the only thing I can think of is mechbays. A new player would only have to choose from 4 mechbays to max out his/her efficiencies and collect mechs they like. The idea of having to spend MC on more space as opposed to cool cammo, colors, cockpit items, mechs, hero mechs, is not very appealing.

[Shumabot]

The free mechs are unplayably bad, even the best of them is an unoptimized pile of trash. This causes players to get killed after having done nothing.

The game is full of bugs and disconnects. This causes players to have a bad experience.

The game doesn't show you how to do weapon grouping on your mechs and the stock loadouts are ludicrously armed needing upwards of 5 weapon control groups. Most players will just ignore the small guns in this case (and are right to, given heat management on stocks).

The games objectives aren't well explained and both scenarios are horribly implemented, this can and will drive players away quickly since the games own objectives are unfun.

The social system interface in this game is horrid, with constantly pointless confirmation buttons and a general lack of fluidity. It's hard for new players to even figure out how to make a group with friends.

Finally! The gulf of performance between optimized 12 million dollar mechs and the total trash players are given at the outset makes this game incredibly unfair to new players. There is no debating this. Veteran players may play better, but they also have mechs that are mechanically superior in almost every fashion. Ferro, Endo, and especially double heat sinks need a thorough redesign, they're pure performance boosts and are a terrible system of upgrades that the game doesn't even explain correctly (it lies about dubs, and half the golds on this forum don't even understand how they work).

Byk, on 23 March 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Really the only thing I can think of is mechbays. A new player would only have to choose from 4 mechbays to max out his/her efficiencies and collect mechs they like. The idea of having to spend MC on more space as opposed to cool cammo, colors, cockpit items, mechs, hero mechs, is not very appealing.

No new player has four full mechbays. That takes many, many games to pull off.

Edited by Shumabot, 23 March 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

crabcakes66, on 23 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

And I'm sure 1000 people would be willing to tell me how horrible the STO community is. I agree that MWO needs a lobby system. But these things are only tangentially related.

Id be more willing to tell you how horrible the STO devs were.
I liked it when tey told us that we should be grateful for the C-Store because oherwise they wouldnt waste the dev cycles on new ships and stuff. That was when the game still had a monthly sub

[Jman5]

I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding when they introduce their friend/s to the game and they stop playing after a few games. They think the game must be really bad or something is terribly wrong with the new player experience.

The truth is that all games have really high fail rate among players. A huge number of players will pick up a game, play it briefly, and then never touch it again. This happens in AAA games and indie games. I would say only 1 in 10 stick around for more than a week with even the most highly praised games. They may not dislike it, but the game just didn't stick for them like it did for you.

High fail rate for games is completely normal and you shouldn't be depressed when 9/10 friends you show this to walk away.

I would say the biggest thing that kills the new player experience is when the guy introducing them to the game tells them how imbalanced, buggy, and crappy it is right now. Our veteran is priming his friend to hate the game. Conversely, if you focus on the positive and find easy to use builds that allow him to contribute, he's more likely to enjoy it.

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 23 March 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding when they introduce their friend/s to the game and they stop playing after a few games. They think the game must be really bad or something is terribly wrong with the new player experience.

The truth is that all games have really high fail rate among players. A huge number of players will pick up a game, play it briefly, and then never touch it again. This happens in AAA games and indie games. I would say only 1 in 10 stick around for more than a week with even the most highly praised games. They may not dislike it, but the game just didn't stick for them like it did for you.

High fail rate for games is completely normal and you shouldn't be depressed when 9/10 friends you show this to walk away.

I would say the biggest thing that kills the new player experience is when the guy introducing them to the game tells them how imbalanced, buggy, and crappy it is right now. Our veteran is priming his friend to hate the game. Conversely, if you focus on the positive and find easy to use builds that allow him to contribute, he's more likely to enjoy it.

So you want people to lie to eachother?

[Rift Hawk]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

Player retention is an important topic for PGI. They observe that some of their target audience drop out early, or so Bryan Eckman said in the 3rd person perspective.

So, what are the reasons for this

Mechwarrior Online is certainly a complex game:
o Multiple weapon groupings to control
o Heat Management
o Torso can twist independently from leg movement direction
o Separate Torso and Arm Movement
o Weapons with differences ranges, including minimum ranges.

All this is combined with
o No ingame Tutorial at all to systematically teach controls to the player
o Beginner Mechs are designed for the table top Battletech game, and highly unsuited to the Mechwarrior Online adaptation of the mechanics. THis means they often have low armour values, almost always have low ammo values,and they are equipped with loadouts of standard heat sinks that where suited for the table top game heat output of the mech's weapons, but not for the MW:O heat output of the mech's weapons.
o PVP from the start, meaning you get thrown in with the wolves,so to speak.
o One of the most exciting game features - mech lab customization of the mech - is available only very late in the game.

All of this is complex and it can even be complex for people that "know" first person shooters, flight simulators or the table top game.

What else do you think is hard on players?
What would you do to address things?

---
I mean, one thing seems obvious. We really need a real tutorial. If you have any idea how to design this tutorial, make sure to mention it.

There are two avenues for me to deal with the trial mech thingy:
1) Rebalance the game so that stock loadouts at least work heat-wise and have sufficient ammo  for their weaponry.
2) Make all Trial Mechs custom designed builds (see Build Heavy Mech Trial challenge) suited for the MW:O game mechanics.

I don't find mechwarrior to be complex at all really. There are far more complex games out there. Given I used to play EVE online for a number of years and I recognize that not everyone coming to this game has played something as complex as EVE. I also found the controls fairly easy as I've played World of Tanks as well.

I think the training grounds was a good first step toward helping out new players. It allows them the time to get used to piloting a mech and used to grouping weapons. I'm not really sure the game needs an ingame tutorial though. Sure it would be helpful to new players but I don't think the lack of one is driving anyone out of the game. At least not many.

A more serious problem from what I have heard from new players, is based on the combat experience. Getting hit with 6PPCs or crushed under a splat cat. Streaked to death by a 3L that half the weapons on your stock mech can't hit. Boating is a real and serious problem for a lot of people. New players don't have that option and right now, most boating builds tend to be the biggest damage producers. Even if they aren't the top killers. This is a detractor for the new players as they are left wondering why they just died in two shots.

I stock builds on most trial mechs are lacking. However, some of them are decent. The problem is, there aren't enough of them. I have seen a few posts from new players on the forums asking what mech they should buy as their first mech. The only get an option of four different mechs to play until they buy one of their own. Then realize that there are dozens to choose from. I think we at least should be giving them one of every variant to test out before they buy their first mech. You wouldn't buy a car without test driving it first would you ? I also think that each variant should have 3 different builds to choose from. Brawler (Close range), Support (Long range), and Balanced ( The current stock builds). This would not only give them the option to figure out their play style but it would also give them the opportunity to test out more than one build on a trial mech. Just a mech sucks with one build doesn't mean the mech sucks.

Just my opinion.

Edited by Imperial X, 23 March 2013 - 09:55 AM.

[Thirdstar]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Id be more willing to tell you how horrible the STO devs were.
I liked it when tey told us that we should be grateful for the C-Store because oherwise they wouldnt waste the dev cycles on new ships and stuff. That was when the game still had a monthly sub

I was there for that. Had a good laugh. So much promise, so little delivery. Much like MWO.

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

A game like Startrek Online has a General Chat where everyone can talk and ask his "stupid" beginner question. Sure, there are asshats around that might insult you for asking a question or whatever, but hell, there is always someone that will try to help you.

I've been asking for an STO style chat system here for ages. Player created channels would be so awesome. Doffjobs chat from STO was a cool place to hangout. Even DS9 general wasn't too bad.

[MustrumRidcully]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 March 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Id be more willing to tell you how horrible the STO devs were.
I liked it when tey told us that we should be grateful for the C-Store because oherwise they wouldnt waste the dev cycles on new ships and stuff. That was when the game still had a monthly sub

True. I still think the STO community was/is mostly decent, however. Some have become quite jaded, like me, because of all what happened...

STO has done a terrible number of things wrong, but some things Cryptic did do well, and I think the entire Chat System (and the account system with charactername@playername model) is pretty decent. There are features I'd still wish for (default shortcuts for team play commands would be great.). But I think pretty much any other online game chat system I played had a better chat than MW:O. But then, I don't play that many online games...

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 23 March 2013 - 10:00 AM.

[Thirdstar]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

True. I still think the STO community was/is mostly decent, however. Some have become quite jaded, like me, because of all what happened...

Lets not go there Mustrum. I'll get all depressed and ****.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thirdstar, on 23 March 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Lets not go there Mustrum. I'll get all depressed and ****.

Then I shouldn't tell you that I fear it's just all happening over again in MW:O?

--

Let's get back to more "constructive" things. How could we improve the new player experience.

I think the Tutorial is the obvious move. Do we need to go into detail here?

Trial Mechs are another step..
What I might try to do is create 4 Trial Mechs that each get increasingly complex.

Let's start,s ay, with a 4 Medium LAser Jenner. Just 4 simple weapons, you don't need to worry about the difference between the arm and the torso reticule. Challenge may be that this mech is frigging fast, anyone have a better suggestion?

Next mech might be a Hunchback 4SP with 4 medium lasers and 2 SRMs. (Let's leave the head gun out of it for now). Now the player has to learn about torso and arm movement ranges. But he has a handy marker what is what - the SRMs are torso-mounted, the lasers are arm-mounted. (That'S why I dont# want the Head lAser. Complicates things.)

Next mech might be a Catapult with LRMS, Streaks and Medium Lasers and Jump Jets. This time we get to learn about locking mechanics, as well as jump jets. Things get a bit "eased up" because we don't need to keep track of arm and torso movement as much.

Next mech could be an Atlas. This is the big deal, the only thing it doesn't have is jump jets. But you got lasers, ballistics (a first for the player if he only used trials so far), and missiles (and different ones). (Maybe if we think we need to keep the JJs, we need the Highlander for this.)

[evensen007]

It's so simple. Game/community objectives. I've dropped off of the game for weeks/months at a time because I'm tired of team deathmatch. There is nothing that makes you feel like you made a difference, joined a cause, or made progress. I'm getting really impatient waiting for CW.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

True. I still think the STO community was/is mostly decent, however. Some have become quite jaded, like me, because of all what happened...

STO has done a terrible number of things wrong, but some things Cryptic did do well, and I think the entire Chat System (and the account system with charactername@playername model) is pretty decent. There are features I'd still wish for (default shortcuts for team play commands would be great.). But I think pretty much any other online game chat system I played had a better chat than MW:O. But then, I don't play that many online games...

I was jaded from the STO community but again, because of the mods/devs. I made a sig there:

and guess that was the last straw as they stuck me with a never expiring permaban from their forums lol

[Jman5]

Shumabot, on 23 March 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

So you want people to lie to eachother?

Who said anything about lying? I said focus on the positives instead of crying about every gripe you have. Do you think I would have stuck around if the guy who introduced me to this game was constantly complaining in my ear that "it's bad, I'm going to hate it, the game is broken!" It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially If he conveniently forgets to tell me why he has stuck around playing this game for months.

You're priming people to hate the game when you complain about all the problems it has at the outset.

[Protection]

Forcing new players to play 25+ games in a single heatsink, unoptimized, heat-death-trap known as a 'trial mech,' ensuring that their mech is vastly inferior to anything else on the field that isn't being run by someone equally new.

[Nidhoggr]

They should create a tutorial that is an overlay of the training grounds. Training grounds should also be set as your default launch mode. What I'm thinking of here in terms of an overlay would be along the lines of -- you approach one of the dummy mechs on the map and as soon as they show up on radar an overlay says "Mech in range. Press 'R' to target." Then as you move within 540m of the mech it'll say things like "Medium lasers: Max Range 540m. Mech within range." depending on whether or not you have medium lasers equipped. Likewise if you have missiles that lock it would tell you when you were within range to lock, etc., etc. (Oh and in that regards, I think there should be a default dummy mech in the training grounds with ECM equipped, so new users can see how it effects play, and what strategies can be used to counter it.) I understand that currently the weapons "light up" when in range, but that's not a very educational method and is no doubt confusing to new players I'm sure. All this would have to be is like a text overlay on top of the screen. Betty's voice not required, but probably would be appreciated.