175 replies to this topic

[Dakkath]

From my personal experience with my group of friends, the biggest issues are these (for them):
- Low FPS / Performance
- Glitchy physics (hey they like a little more realism...)
- No stock-mode only drops (FOTM mechs turn them off)
- No Meta-game (this is the big one)
- No available communication with the other players in your 'drop' (game lobby, etc)
- Arena combat gets boring fast with no rewards (e.g no meta)

For me personally, I want a stock/trial only mode w/metagame asap

[Stygian Steel]

you forgot to mention that forums often scare new players away with how depressed and bitter a lot of the forum people are

[Shumabot]

Jman5, on 23 March 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Who said anything about lying? I said focus on the positives instead of crying about every gripe you have. Do you think I would have stuck around if the guy who introduced me to this game was constantly complaining in my ear that "it's bad, I'm going to hate it, the game is broken!" It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Especially If he conveniently forgets to tell me why he has stuck around playing this game for months.

You're priming people to hate the game when you complain about all the problems it has at the outset.

If this game was actually friendly to new players I wouldn't have the ammo to complain with. Lying to them might keep them in for a few more rounds, but this games issues are that it's an unbalanced mess that is ALSO hard to learn and complex without that complexity adding depth. If my friend has half a brain he'll recognize that quickly anyway.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

Well an "own Mech" keeps players surely more intereste than "a few games /then quit)" (more like "the whole first day(s)") in a trial can of crap, to earn the money..even with the cadet-bonus.. but an "OWN" first mech gives a great base.. i still have my first cadet-money brought Catapult...

So a great First Experience, and a solid base Mech...

Edited by John McFianna, 23 March 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Ethidium]

I don't have much to add here, its not a secret why an incompete game has trouble holding the attention of potential new players. I've invited a lot of people to come try this, and it only hooks people who are pretty decent at games and who have some previous attachment to the Battletech universe.

People who struggle with the game's controls after 50-100+ matches are just not the sort of players who will stay with this game. I have a few friends who I know would enjoy the mech lab, and theoretically CW, but I just tell them its not a good game for them. Third person view, especially a gimped one with all sorts of restrictions, is not going to help.

[Tezcatli]

I think the grind can kill player's enthusiasm. Part of the fun is using new mechs. But unless you're only buying lights, it's pretty expensive, and some of the better equipment is of course expensive. Then if you want to unlock the Elite set of skills, you have to use 3 variants of the same mech. And I say this from the perspective of a new players, who probably isn't scoring a lot damage, getting destroyed because he doesn't know better. Winning only because the team won it for them. I think that'll kill any enthusiasm a new player has. Unless they genuinely want to play this game.

[ryoma]

Steps that should be taken:

1. A proper tutorial
2. Give the player one free mech of their choice of one of the less used variants for a Chassis. We already know that some variants are never worth piloting, so call those variants "trial mechs" and make sure the new player understands that the first thing they should be saving up for is a replacement mech.

EX of choices: Jenner K, HBK-4G, DRG-5N, Cat-C4, Raven-2X, Com-3A, TRB-7K, AS7-K, Aws-8T, STK-4N are all variants I rarely see on the field. When I do they're trial mechs, people trying wonky builds, bad players, or a very skilled player looking for a challenge.

3. Make that free mech come with either double heat sinks or an XL engine of ALMOST the engine size preferred by that variant
4. Allow that mech to be customized.
5. make that mech sell for a paltry sum, that way people don't just pick the assault or XL engine mech and sell it immediately. Make the paltry sum equal for all these trial mechs.
6. Keep the cadet bonus

This will allow new players to have a much nicer experience when thrust into the game. I actually quit the game back in closed beta because of Trial mechs and only logged back into my account when someone told me about the cadet bonus.

It may cut into short term profits at first, but it should do wonders in retaining new players.

Edited by ryoma, 23 March 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Shumabot]

ryoma, on 23 March 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Steps that should be taken:

1. A proper tutorial
2. Give the player one free mech of their choice of one of the less used variants for a Chassis. We already know that some variants are never worth piloting, so call those variants "trial mechs" and make sure the new player understands that the first thing they should be saving up for is a replacement mech.

EX of choices: Jenner K, HBK-4G, DRG-5N, Cat-C4, Raven-2X, Com-3A, TRB-7K, AS7-K, Aws-8T, STK-4N are all variants I rarely see on the field. When I do they're trial mechs, people trying wonky builds, bad players, or a very skilled player looking for a challenge.

3. Make that free mech come with either double heat sinks or an XL engine of ALMOST the engine size preferred by that variant
4. Allow that mech to be customized.
5. make that mech sell for a paltry sum, that way people don't just pick the assault or XL engine mech and sell it immediately. Make the paltry sum equal for all these trial mechs.
6. Keep the cadet bonus

This will allow new players to have a much nicer experience when thrust into the game. I actually quit the game back in closed beta because of Trial mechs and only logged back into my account when someone told me about the cadet bonus.

What makes this game unfriendly to new players is bad matchmaking, the pointless performance gulf created by ferro/endo/dubs, and the fact that nothing about mechs is explained.

A tutorial only really fixes the last thing and it's the least damaging. The game needs a fundamental overhaul to how mechs are upgraded.

[Budor]

No mechlab chat = no ingame "community" = no bonds = no interest.

[Lanoitakude]

Things that will help new players:

• A fully interactive Tutorial for Combat, MechLab, and Pilot Lab.
  
• In-game/menu Tooltips with helpful reminders and data. Can be disabled.
  
• A stronger sense of community in-game (chatrooms, clans, etc).
  
• Training Grounds where you can activate bots to practice against.
  
• Alter and better explain the Cadet Bonus. Lower the disparity between Cadet Bonus and normal earnings (drop-off is demoralizing for new players).
  
• Include a summary of the basic strategy behind the Trial Mechs.

As it stands, MWO throws a new player into an unforgiving and erudite system. That system is complex, deep, and highly rewarding, but the sizable barriers and lack of in-game information are enough to push the interested, though uninitiated, away.

[ryoma]

Shumabot, on 23 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

What makes this game unfriendly to new players is bad matchmaking, the pointless performance gulf created by ferro/endo/dubs, and the fact that nothing about mechs is explained.

A tutorial only really fixes the last thing and it's the least damaging. The game needs a fundamental overhaul to how mechs are upgraded.

Read my whole post. Did you see how I requested trial mechs to change? Of course we could give them an often used variant if PGI would be so kind. Giving a new player a free mech would definitely help. Especially when cadet bonus makes it easier to mod the mech.

[Korlandril]

meteorol, on 23 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

You know what kills new player interests?
A sh*tty communtiy full of self proclaimed gods in flesh. Inappropriate elitism all over the place.
I can't count how many times i have seen players insult new players instead of telling them what they are doing wrong.
"Stupid f*cking PUGS, can't even walk a straight line" flames in global chat.
Guys offending their whole team for being bad instead of giving them tips.

I played Natural Selection 2 for 10 hours this weekend (free weekend on steam).
Experienced players giving tips to new once every match i played. It took me 2 matches to understand how the whole game is working because some experienced player took the commander role and told everyone what to do.
I didn't see a
single insult because someone was playing bad in those 10 hours.
It would probably take less than 1 hour to see plenty of noobbashing in MWO.

I totally agree. How many times do you see somone doing that? Its like if your just learning and stuff I are having fun, and some douche starts calling you a loser and stuff , that isnt fun to play. Having some way to speak to your other players would be awesome though as well. would be neat of you could make a button for each individual player, and then a group button as well, to stop the whole team from being an unintelligible blurb during the game. In a way that would make training new guys and girls a lot easier, just tell them whats up, without essentially needing to pause your game and type it in. When i first started, i had someone actually add me on there freinds list , drop with me for an hour, and actually like play with me and show me how stuff worked, ( this was in closed beta). That was one of the coolest things. Wonder of they could somehow get volunteers to do that? Like a tag similar to the founders tag, but its a ''training officers'' tag. Who would volunteer to do that once in a while? that is no work or development from PGI...it is community based and really simple to implement. Just ask a member currently running as a training officer I though that was pretty cool and harkens back to older mechwarrior titles, and there training missions.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 March 2013 - 03:09 AM, said:

How would this help?

I don't think the problem with the stock modes is that they are bad against custom designs. It's that they are bad and lead to lots of shutdowns or out of ammo situations that are frustrating.

Edit: The mistake with stock mechs is less (but also) about that you send a guy in race with a volkswagen bug in a race against formula one racers, it's more about giving someone a Porsche 911 with a leaky gas tank and a steering wheel with a broken servo steering against formula one racers. The player would probably understand why his car is slower than those Formula One cars, but he won't understand why he has to refuel so often and why the steering so hard.

Its ok, you don't get! Battlemechs all had flaws in the TT. Part of the game was learning to manage your flaws and making your strengths stand out. It wasn't about stacking 6 PPC's and blasting away while say "L2P NOOB".

Stygian Steel, on 23 March 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

you forgot to mention that forums often scare new players away with how depressed and bitter a lot of the forum people are

I'd agree a lot of us are upset who PGI lied, and scammed us. You get negative feed back when you do that. Just saying.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

Last time I recomended this game to someone, that actually tried it, they where like WTF is this garbage.2

So, I do not recomend this game to friends.. just people I do not care for.

This game is so screwed up it is not going anywhere but a niche market at best.

[Aim-Bot]

Tutorial:

When you first logged in to MWO the screen should lock you in an UI tutorial that explains you how mechlab,pilot lab and all other stuff work in the end of the tutorial an improved testing grounds tutorial shall start automaticly wich explains the mechanics of the different weapon types and mech control also important is to exlain what the different tasks of the mechs classes are also specific tasks like sniper and lrm boats and the funktions of the modules and consumables should be explained there.
Just like a real game tutorial. In the end shouldnt be any more questions.
The last very important feature shall be an independant mech bay where you can build mechs and test them for free.

So far MWO is really user unfriendly and scares away new players that dont know the Battletech universe.As long as it will stay like it is this project will have an horrible end wich would be very sad cause it has the potential to be the best Mech simulation ever created.When i logged in for the first time i was thinking about how a Battletech newcomer would feel like.I guess i would have just quit playing cause here is no chat,no tutorial and no clear answers to all the questions a newcomer would have.I hope youre right and the devs are watching this cause the highest priority should be TUTORIAL,UI 2.0,CLANMECHS,CHAT,COMUNITY WARFARE. This are the keys to make the comunity explode.
The tutorial could look like in my discription or similar.

Thanks for your attention

Edited by KuritaGuard, 23 March 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[Rayah]

The grindyness of the game.

[Lightfoot]

I think it's more a question of what is keeping them from connecting with MWO.

That would be no group chat and no place to form up for a organized 8v8 or what MWO will use for an 8v8.

That and the missing interactive elements of the Community Warfare that will create roleplay options, like being a lonewolf Merc-for-Hire, or a Merc Unit employed by one or more factions.

You also need gametypes that support a tactically organized drop for a specific map setting. You need to know in advance if the map is hot or cold and if it is close range, longe range, or mixed. You don't really need to know the actual map.

Gameplay in MWO is awesome, easy to learn. Easier than ever with the new control options. Joystick works well now too. So that part is solid and why players want to play MWO. The free 2 play model is excellent also compared to any other f2p title I have played. I mean, I play alot of MMO f2p at the moment and MWO is the only one where I am not cut off from half of my old content if I am not at premium status. So these are all very good things MWO does.

[MustrumRidcully]

Zerstorer Stallin, on 23 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Its ok, you don't get! Battlemechs all had flaws in the TT. Part of the game was learning to manage your flaws and making your strengths stand out. It wasn't about stacking 6 PPC's and blasting away while say "L2P NOOB".

I am not Battletech expert, but I get that TT mechs had all flaws and strengths.
But MW:O Battlemechs do have different or additional flaws compared to the TT mech.

The AWS-8Q is a fine Table Top mech. Despite using 3 powerful PPCs, and using a superflous small laser instead of another 0.5 tons of ammo (because the rules didn't allow that when it was created), it could fire for long periods of time without gaining terrible amounts of heat, and it colud also cool off relatively simply be just not shooting one PPC for a turn every 3 turns.
MW:O turned the AWS-8Q in a mech that could overheat within 10 seconds and would take 20 seconds of inactivity to full cool off.

That has nothing to do with regular Battletech flaws. The regular Battletech flaw of the AWS-8Q would be that it had to deal with a minimum range (and only that pathetic small laser in that range bracket). Force the AWS in a brawl, and it would be screwed.
This flaw is something that MW:O retained - but why that other flaw? What is it good for? Why force this on a new player that has to learn so many things while enemies are out to kill him?


It's not about giving new players Formula One Racers with "improved" Trial Mech. Is about giving them a mech that they can handle. Something that doesn't out-perform other mechs, but it's weaknesses are "soft" - they don't directly affect the complexity of handling the mech. A good trial mech would simply be a mech that deals poor damage, not a mech that overheats after 10 seconds because he has too many guns for this game.

---
A thing I want to stress here:
I don't think MW:O is complicated or the controls are complicated. THey are merely complex -that means they can do a lot of things. But they are learnable and understandeable. It's not that you have to press 5 keys together, followed by a 12-step-variable-key-sequence an tilt your head in a special way to make your mech walk and shoot.

The controls are well thought out and I think the indicators aren't even bad. But the player must know what these controls are, and what indicators to look for, otherwise it is very easy to get lost. But you're dropped in the middle of a PvP game - things get tight early on. A player unfamiliar with Battletech will not even have an idea that certain things might be worth looking for - like torso twist indicators, or controls to group your weapons.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 23 March 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Interesting idea about the less used models......

But what's wrong with the Treb7K? It might be my favorite chassis.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

there are so so many good ideas that can be implemented here by PGI(Putta Grande Inc) but sadly, they do not make money and will not be even looked at.

Edited by Crazy Billy Joe Bob, 23 March 2013 - 12:51 PM.