62 replies to this topic

[Gammanoob]

Honor is a nice theoretical word that never really exists in any form of combat.

Edited by Gammanoob, 24 March 2013 - 02:57 PM.

[Joanna Conners]

Gammanoob, on 24 March 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Honor is a nice theoretical word that never really exists in any form of combat.

It's perception. Like all things.

[Signal27]

Demona, on 24 March 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's perception. Like all things.

And more often than not the way people perceive things is that if they lost, then the other guy was dishonorable. If they won, then the other guy fought honorably.

[Gaius Mattlov]

As a dedicated Clan MechWarrior since MW2, my thoughts on this are probably heresy, but they are what I'll stick to:

The strict rules of Zellbrigen are silly beyond redemption. You could say I like the spirit of the law, but have no use for the letter of the law. Strict dueling rules are okay for an isolated one-on-one duel, but I don't think they belong anywhere near the actual battlefield.

Rather, what constitutes an "honorable" warrior versus a "dishonorable" combatant, at least in my mind, are the following:

Do you effectively help your team complete its mission and objectives, without reservation, hesitation, or undue incompetence?
Do you engage the enemy without reservation or hestitation?
Do you fearlessly fling yourself into battle against enemy 'Mechs, including those of far heavier weight and armament, if doing so helps your team, no matter the odds?
Do you fearlessly go down with your 'Mech with all guns blazing, if the situation is truly hopeless or your team now faces certain defeat? In other words, do you die with your boots on?

A true Clan warrior, in my opinion, answers 'yes' to all of the above: You complete the mission at all costs, you don't shy away from enemy contact, and you don't give up or run away (or shut down in the corner of the map while the enemy team caps your base).

Silly rules which artificially hamstring the ability of your team to complete its mission strikes me as the very antithesis of Clan philosophy toward waste and efficient use of resources. A Clan warrior should strive to complete the mission intelligently, as that is a far more useful indicator of a warrior's cunning and skill than how proudly you can stand in an open field like an ***** and get shot. And I think a fair amount of the lore actually supports that (from what I remember of reading Legend of the Jade Phoenix), as opposed to this bullet-point list of how to "honorably" fight a 1-on-1 duel in the middle of a battlefield.

[TibsVT]

Gaius Aurelius, on 25 March 2013 - 08:55 PM, said:

A true Clan warrior, in my opinion, answers 'yes' to all of the above: You complete the mission at all costs, you don't shy away from enemy contact, and you don't give up or run away (or shut down in the corner of the map while the enemy team caps your base).

Silly rules which artificially hamstring the ability of your team to complete its mission strikes me as the very antithesis of Clan philosophy toward waste and efficient use of resources. A Clan warrior should strive to complete the mission intelligently, as that is a far more useful indicator of a warrior's cunning and skill than how proudly you can stand in an open field like an ***** and get shot. And I think a fair amount of the lore actually supports that (from what I remember of reading Legend of the Jade Phoenix), as opposed to this bullet-point list of how to "honorably" fight a 1-on-1 duel in the middle of a battlefield.

I suppose a lot of it is circumstantial. I would be inclined to agree that if an objective is put before you it would be in anyones, be it Clan or IS to place that objective above all else unless directly challenged by another.

[Mordynak]

Am i playing this game to enjoy it in anyway i can? "Dishonorable!"

[Skylarr]

The Clans are suppose to fight according to Zellbringing. This is what is suppose to be their limitation. But, it looks like most player that want to be Clanners only are doing it for the Tech. They like the idea of having a mech bristling with weapons. This is the reason why Clan MechWarriors should only be fighting other Clan MechWarriors.

They Have already said that House Units will be fighting other House Units and Mercs will only be fighting other Merc Units:

Quote

Dev Blog 1 - Community Warfare

• Core Worlds – Are managed by the dev team. These are worlds that necessary for future planning and part of major historical events.
  
• Faction Worlds – Are fought over by Faction players. These planets buffer core and border worlds, and do not play a significant role in major historical events. Rewards for controlling these planets are directly linked to global bonuses and abilities associated with a player’s Faction.
  
• Border Worlds – Are fought over via a contract bidding system by player run Mercenary Corporations. These planets change hands on a regular basis, and have no impact on historical events. Rewards for controlling a boarder world are significant and go directly to the occupying Merc Corp.
  
  

Since Clans are a Faction they will be fighting each other. I am sure they will allow Pre-Organized 8-Man Drops against other randon 8-Mans.

Edited by Skylarr, 27 March 2013 - 09:37 AM.

[Joanna Conners]

I simply hope they allow mercs to fight anyone, and all factions of the IS and Clans to fight one another instead of being restricted to certain targets or types of opponents. If all mercs could fight is mercs, then what's the point? It would be a game of futility.

[TibsVT]

Demona, on 27 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

I simply hope they allow mercs to fight anyone, and all factions of the IS and Clans to fight one another instead of being restricted to certain targets or types of opponents. If all mercs could fight is mercs, then what's the point? It would be a game of futility.

Agreed. It would all seem rather pointless to play as a merc if that were to be the case. Even if its only minor I think the mercs should play a part in this, perhaps in form of a contract system for more than just the border worlds?

[Joanna Conners]

KelesK, on 27 March 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

Agreed. It would all seem rather pointless to play as a merc if that were to be the case. Even if its only minor I think the mercs should play a part in this, perhaps in form of a contract system for more than just the border worlds?

Precisely. Even if I wasn't joining Wolf, I'd have no incentive to stay merc if I couldn't fight any faction players based on my contracts. Merc vs. merc only defeats the entire point of being a merc in the first place.

[Skylarr]

Demona, on 27 March 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

Precisely. Even if I wasn't joining Wolf, I'd have no incentive to stay merc if I couldn't fight any faction players based on my contracts. Merc vs. merc only defeats the entire point of being a merc in the first place.

Your Merc Unit will be employed by a House to attack a planet being held by a Merc Unit who is working for another House. This is how you will build Loyalty Points.

I would like to see contarcts against the Clans right away.

In the IS Unit wins it would gain CP, Clan Points, that it could use to buy Clan equipment. If the Devs are able to incorporate Zellbringing succesfully and the IS Unit follows it they will gain Honor Point, HP, that can also be used to buy Clan equipment.

Edited by Skylarr, 27 March 2013 - 06:28 PM.

[Viper69]

E-honor is a funny thing.

[Joanna Conners]

Skylarr, on 27 March 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

Your Merc Unit will be employed by a House to attack a planet being held by a Merc Unit who is working for another House. This is how you will build Loyalty Points.

I would like to see contarcts against the Clans right away.

I don't care. I can just as easily take contracts from one House to fight another faction, not just another faction's own mercs. It's insulting to hardcore mercenary fans to do it that way. It needs to be vs. everyone or forget about it.

[Skye Storm]

Even though I am dedicated merc, I will answer any zellbrigen and will certainly decree a challenge from time to time.

Edited by Skye Storm, 27 March 2013 - 06:40 PM.

[StonedDead]

I'm going to need me a clanner for a bondsman so i can maintain all of the fancy tech I pick up from wasting clanners. This is going to be fun. I hope they give you your clans soon.

So here's a question for ya: how is the bondsman thing going to work? Are you going to just join another clan if you're captured(defeated) or what?

[Phatel]

The dead have no honor. Anyone shot in the back should not have been foolish enough to ignore me.

[Joanna Conners]

Zekester81, on 27 March 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I'm going to need me a clanner for a bondsman so i can maintain all of the fancy tech I pick up from wasting clanners. This is going to be fun. I hope they give you your clans soon.

So here's a question for ya: how is the bondsman thing going to work? Are you going to just join another clan if you're captured(defeated) or what?

That would be up to the player and how far they want to take it.

[PaintedWolf]

The rules of zellbrigen might seem ridiculous to us but adherence for such rules is the primary reason the Clans were able to develop a 200 year technological advantage while the Successor States beat each other to pulps. It is also the reason Clans maintain a clear naval superiority, which is a key factor in considering the Clans and whether or not Inner Sphere forces wish to be protected by zel or not.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 06:30 AM.

[Viper69]

I find its the victors who write about how honorably they fought and the losers tend to write about how dishonorably they were tricked.

[PaintedWolf]

Phatel, on 27 March 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

The dead have no honor. Anyone shot in the back should not have been foolish enough to ignore me.

Oh the Clans are quite capable of engaging in brutal behaviors once they consider their opponents dezgra:

Quote

In less than 36 hours, the Vipers made their move.

Ironhold was the first to suffer under the Steel Viper assault. Alpha Galaxy declared the Falcon forces dezgra and not worthy of bidding or honorable combat. The elite Galaxy blitzkrieged the world with a combination of orbital assault and hot landings. The Falcons' Emerald Talon Assault Star intercepted the incoming Viper DropShips and managed to blunt the initial spearhead before the arrival of the Dark Asp and Zalman's Endeavor arrived to provide support. The Steel Python, Snake Pit, and Snake-in-the-Grass escorted the remainder of Alpha Galaxy; the arrival of nearly ten Stars of aerofighters pushed the Faclon Warships away and cleared the orbital lines for a full assault drop. Despite the overwhelming force facing them, the Twelfth Talon and Zeta Solahma Clusters managed to evade the Vipers for nearly a month before succumbing. The Vipers made it very clear they would not take Falcon bondsmen unless the warrior proved themself exemplary in battle. This was a sentiment that stretched across the entire Viper touman as they carried out their vengeance.

The Vipers rolled out en masse, hitting every Falcon enclave save Lum. By the end of January 3070, the Seventy-fourth Battle Cluster was all that remained of Clan Jade Falcon within the Homeworlds, spared only because the Vipers needed time to regroup. The Falcons knew they lived on borrowed time and determined to die with what honor remained.

The Falcons did not wait long.

Excerpt taken from The Wars of Reaving.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 06:47 AM.