62 replies to this topic

[Dantiger]

Zellbringen is the perfect way to solve the problems with the actual matchmaking
OH YOU ARE OUTNUMBERED 6x8 ! SO I WILL GIVE YOU THE CHANCE TO CALL FOR A HONORABLE FIGHT !!

Edited by Dantiger, 29 March 2013 - 07:08 AM.

[PaintedWolf]

Viper69, on 29 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

I find its the victors who write about how honorably they fought and the losers tend to write about how dishonorably they were tricked.

Quote

Several DropShips landed at the Adder enclave, but rather than unload a ground force, the vessels opened their empty bays. The last remaining Adders on York streamed into the waiting ships as several fighter squadrons held off a weak strike by nearby Spirit forces. Before the Spirits could bring sufficient strength to bear, the Adder DropShips lifted from the planet's surface. The Adders had only come to extract the remains of their forces from York.

The Blood Spirits knew something was wrong when the Adder Warships then spread across the planet. On 6 August, the Sovereign Right fired the first salvo into New Tara, followed quickly by the rest of the Star. For twenty-two days, the Adders bombarded the surface of York, hitting every city and facility and breaking the back of the Clan. Combined with targeted airstrikes, the bombardment destroyed ninety-percent of Blood Spirits' industry and three-quarters of the planetary population. The amount of ash and debris thrown into the atmosphere had a nuclear winter effect on the planet's ecology. York began to slowly die.

Earlier:

Quote

Spirit Chalcas

For many years now, we have run afoul of Clan Blood Spirit's atrocious twisting of the Clan Way through their arming of the lower castes and their aggravating tendency to refuse integration into their new Clan if taken as isorla or bondsmen, Arming the lower castes is chalcas; a grossly unClanlike action that is grounds for Annihilation. This action is simply further proof that the Inner Sphere ***** has spread beyond the Spheroid Clans and seeped into Clan space.

Such chalcas actions puts the needs of their Clan above the needs of all Clans. Those who do not have the strength to hold something lose their right to it; an opponent who takes it from them receives full rights to it and should receive cooperation and full integration into the victorious Clan.

With such gross actions, the Blood Spirits have shown for all time that they are corrupted through and through with dishonor. Any further attempt by our Clan to capture and assimilate lower caste isorla should be deemed a waste of resources; it is obvious they will not honor the Way.

As such, it becomes increasingly obvious that the most efficient solution to handling the Spirits lower castes that are included in our isorla is destruction. Orbital bombardment protocols are the most efficient use of resources in these matters; our WarShip commanders should take care to avoid destroying infrastructure they can in using such methods. Our recommendation is that this should become standard protocol during these times, as it is apparent we are continuing to face opponents who have tossed the Way of the Clans aside as so much surat garbage.

----Clan Star Adder Loremaster Daniel Fletcher, Recommendations, 15013074

It should be noted that the Star Adders won the war, and that those they now fight who are "dishonorable" "through and through" are no longer to be captured as such attempts are now considered to be a "waste of resources".

They are to be destroyed from orbit. Excerpts taken from The Wars of Reaving.

The Home Clans have changed. Now the debate is no longer to protect or conquer the Inner Sphere- it is whether the Spheroids should burn now, or burn later.

According to my knowledge of the fiction, the Adders are now by far the most powerful Clan in Clan space, and the Inner Sphere Clans/Council of Six, cut off communications with the Home Worlds fifty+ years ago according to the Lore at the time of the Dark Age.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[PaintedWolf]

Quote

The Council of the Six Clans

[Khan Martha Pryde] : As such, I motion that members of this body forswear any further contact with our wayward kin in the Homeworlds.

[Loremaster Laurie Tseng] : The motion is on the floor, Second?

[Khan Lynn McKenna] : So seconded.

[Tseng] :All present should now vote whether the Council of Six must avoid communications with those Clans not represented here. Those voting for the measure, raise your hand. [ pause ] Record shows nine for the motion. Those opposed, raise your hand. [ pause ]. Record shows two against. There is one abstention. The motion is thus resolved. No Clan Khan of this Council will initiate communication with a Clan not on this governing body.

Excerpt taken from source already noted above.

Quote

With the recent ruling by the Council, we have closed down all active channels regarding the Pentagon Worlds and the Kerensky Cluster. A prudent move, as you will see none of our former brethren have improved with distance or age.

--Clan Diamond Shark Loremaster Semi Kalasa

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 07:54 AM.

[PaintedWolf]

To give a good general idea of what is going on in the "Wars of Reaving":

Quote

The Return of Orbital Bombardment

A key factor in the growing philosophical belief among the castes of all the Homeworld Clans that contact with the Inner Sphere was capable of corrupting ( or "tain-t-ing" ) individuals away from the Way of the Clans. The belief permeated the sibkos of the Clans following Tukayyid as sibko trainers increasingly blamed such Tain-t for the misfortunes of their Clan in general and their faltering career in particular. (This potential weakness of assigning warriors at a nadir of their career to train the next generation of warriors is examined in detail. )

Ilkhan Brett Andrews' call for a cleansing of this t-aint through Reaving played right to this trend and unleashed the growing frustration among a large percentage of Homeworld Clan warriors, who soon began liberally translating IlKhan's decree into something that suited the need to purge the growing corruption in their midst.

....

They feared their way of life was in mortal peril, and with this fear guiding them, excessive action was then tolerated and encouraged. The disease had to be removed immediately and aggressively. An abstract concept--the barbarians of the Inner Sphere -- suddenly became a tangible target that demanded total and immediate destruction to prevent further contamination.

--Clan Star Adder Scientist (Medical) Monique, Analysis Post-War

Quote

Success!

To the illustrous Khans of Clan Steel Viper:

The crew of the CSV Snake Leader is proud to report that the Wolf enclaves on Tranquil are no longer there.

As ordered, we acheived planetary orbit on 17 December and observed the T-ainted Clan's enclave. Once I was satisifed that there was no other presence of theirs gathered elsewhere on Tranquil, we moved the Snake Leader into geosynchronous orbit.

At 2315 hours, we began full bombardment protocols. A cease-fire was declared at 0435 hours on 19 December.

Nothing remains of the Tain-t-ed Clan's presence on Tranquil, save their miserable atomic dust.

--Star Admiral Jun Tamm, CSV Snake Leader log record 17120371

For some reason the "T" word is censored.

Note, that after the Jihad the Inner Sphere has largely demilitarized and experienced almost half a century of peace. For the most part the Spheroids seem largely ignorant of what has happened in the Clan Homeworlds, and can care even less.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 08:59 AM.

[Jamal Konenakki]

The ilClan Orc Skull cares nothing for silly duels. They should only be used to lure non-orcs to ambushes.

Edited by Jamal Konenakki, 30 March 2013 - 11:16 AM.

[TibsVT]

Jamal Konenakki, on 30 March 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

The ilClan Orc Skull cares nothing for silly duels. They should only be used to lure non-orcs to ambushes.

I know not what to say.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Wow, I must have really been busy with work to have missed this thread. Here is my two cents:

The Honor Levels are simply a representation of the Clan's particular rules of engagement. They do not exist. I have never read a novel or sourebook relating a battle where the person in charge said, "OK warriors, today we fight at Honor Level Two. Attack!"

There is the lore ,then there is the lore translated to TT. We must look at things practically.

Quote

Intentionally moving out of the line of sight of the opponent is prohibited.

Really? I have read accounts of battles where zellbrigen was in effect, where warriors made use of the terrain & moved behind cover while their weapons reloaded & their heat diminshed while also avoiding damage. That rule might be in effect for TT but I do not expect it to work in MWO seeing as it has not BEEN a rule in MW3, MW3:PM, MW4, MW4:BK & MW4:M.

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Failure to fire a weapon when possible is prohibited.

As Coffinail explained, that was for TT. There is no law in the actual game that says you MUST fire a weapon, once it CAN be used. Suppose I have a medium laser & the enemy is within weapons range with nothing obstructing my view or muzzles. I have to shoot it? What if I wanted to wait a bit to alpha strike or group it with another weapon that is currently reloading? What if I decided to move around the enemy to where his armor is weaker? It is at MY discretion.

Quote

A warrior may or may not be able to Fire on a shutdown or fallen 'Mech.

Not applicable either. This is a videogame & I get that people, while playing, may have to take care of things in RL. This is where it gets tricky. When I played MW4, In most servers, if someone had to go afk they would announce it, then shut down. In most cases nobody touched them, until they came back & powered up. Some admins punished people who fired on these defenceless mechs, others did not. In some servers, they made it clear, if you are not playing, SPECTATE. i.e. any mech in the server would be fired on. You go AFK at your own risk. In most cases, this was also adhered to. The only real point of argument regarding shutdown mechs were those engaged in battle who shut down due to overheating. From what I have read, it is NOT dishonorable to fire on a mech that has overheated & has shut down. Why do I say that?

Quote

Peri finished the torso drill and Joanna addressed Aidan. "Cadet Aidan. Check your heat scale. Does it show up normal? Respond."

On the intercom, cadets always had to wait for Joanna's order to respond before they could press and hold down the blue button next to the 'Mech throttle and actually speak to her. He had expected the communication restrictions to be relaxed once in a 'Mech, and it surprised him to learn that he could still
not speak to Joanna or any other officer without permission to respond.

"Heat scale normal," he said and released the button.

"As it should be. I tell you to check only to make sure you realize the most important cockpit rule. Never—not in the heat of battle or the excitement of fixing an enemy 'Mech in your sights, lining it up, and using your most skillful assault plan, your best array of weaponry in the fancy blasts and pulses that
have become your battlefield specialty—never, never forget that you must be continually conscious of the ribbons of information revealed on the heat-scale gauge. A 'Mech is like a living being; it is like the horse of the cavalry, the camel of the desert warrior. You must continually care for it, not push it too much, not allow it to become overheated. Just as those animals speeded up the time, and in many ways, expanded the territory over which wars could be conducted, so the BattleMech—and especially the OmniMech—has quickened and enhanced the possibilities of ground warfare. But even with the improved heat-sink technology of the OmniMechs our scientists have provided us, we can still disable our own 'Mech, making it a sitting duck for others, or even get it blown up and ourselves with it, because we get so caught up in being a hero that we forget the patterns of awareness that a 'Mech pilot must maintain at all times. These patterns include the knowledge of your own 'Mech as well as the situation of the fellow warriors of your Star or Star Cluster. This warning is for all of you. Cadet Peri, you understand this, quiaff? Respond."

Way of the Clans - Book One - The Jade Phoenix Trilogy

Joanna speaks about making the mech "a sitting duck". The question is why would a Clansman at this time in the BT universe be worried about being fired on when shut down, if it was dishonorable? There is no invasion as yet & these are cadets, not solahma who would be fighting bandits & pirates. The only time zell is not used at this particular time is when two Clans have a personal beef with each other. As a warrior, YOU are responsible for managing your own heat.

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A Warrior will never fire on a 'Mech already engaged with another opponent.

That is essentially what Zellbrigen is. 1v1 with no outside help. The better pilot wins.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 31 March 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Jaroth Winson, on 31 March 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

That is essentially what Zellbrigen is. 1v1 with no outside help. The better pilot wins.

Exactly.

This is why I also think that even when 'zell' has been broken, a Warrior is still going to try and fight a duel. They may now be more suspicious of 'dark caste' like behavior. They have grown up trying to take out opponents 1 vs 1. Unless commanded to focus fire on a target by their commander, I still see the Clan Warrior taking targets in a duel like fashion. When they start to witness the dezgra tactics themselves on an individual warrior level, do I see them changing tactics.

[PaintedWolf]

The point is to save resources and avoid having conflicts getting out of hand while simultaneously maintaining the impetus of progress that comes from conflict.

Competition/conflict can lead to progress, as can war, but that is if and only if (for the most part) the conflicts do not get out of hand. Once all standards and morals go out the window, and cheating behavior becomes of the norm or you start losing cities and factories and depopulating entire planets then the conflict is no longer an effective driving force for progress.

This is what the Clans did not understand when they first invaded the Sphere. Yes, the honor codes worked very well within Clan society when everyone played by the rules. This allowed them to build up and maintain military resources at an extremely rapid pace and get hundreds of years even ahead of the Star League.

However conflict within a group and between groups can be completely different things.

Even here however the situation was not Black and White. The Successor States themselves learned that the hard way when they almost lost everything they had, including the ability to wage war via the all-out tactics of the 1st and 2nd Succession Wars and began following the Ares Conventions which they already agreed to and initially ignored.

Word of Blake ignored the Ares Conventions, and found out that this also has negative effects the hard way, because every other faction turned against them at the same time.

If Company A and Company B compete by trying to deliver better quality products at cheaper prices this can be very good to the consumer. If Company A now starts blowing up B's factories, poisoning their products, slandering them in the press with scare stories that are not true, harassing/threatening their customers and killing off their scientists and researchers, and B responds in kind, then the situation is no longer so good for the consumer or economy in general.

Edited by PaintedWolf, 31 March 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Now as far as the not aiming at the head is concerned. I think that was a knee jerk reaction to Nicholas Kerensky getting killed. Of course logically speaking the pilot is the threat. No pilot = no threat. However it prevents the Clan from claiming the enemy pilot as a bondsman who might later become abtakha, robbing them of a valued asset. A warrior who captures isorla for the Clan as a whole or even just for himself gets glory. So why not? Well it is the inevitabe problem we humans are plagued with, feelings.

Trials of Bloodright are fought under zellbrigen. At the end of the day one candidate must win & one must lose unless there is the aberration where both parties kill each other of course, but you get what I mean. HOW this result is arrived at though, is totally up to the people listed as candidates. IIRC, it is noted in the BoK Trilogy that Phelan tried his best to simply beat his opponents & move on to the next round, each step of the way. Vlad on the other hand made it a point to KILL all of his opponents. I do not remember him receiving a single reprimand for this, verbal or written.

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The hatchway slid open to reveal Natasha standing there. She smiled broadly. "I watched on the monitors. I was impressed, though you could have ended it sooner by breaking his neck."

"No need." A shudder rippled through the ship as the Captain applied some thrust. With the return of apparent gravity, Phelan suddenly felt the weakness in his legs and the weariness in his body. "There is no reason to kill when it's not necessary. My job was to defeat him, not kill him."

Phelan pointed to where Dean drifted down toward the deck. "He kept trying to figure what I would do, based on what he would do. He thought I was choking him or trying to break his neck. But I was using the naked-strangle technique Evantha taught me, and I cut off his carotid artery. All I had to do was hang on while his brain shut down from lack of oxygen."

Natasha nodded approvingly. "You do know, don't you, that the other fifteen first-round fights in this Bloodname fight ended with eight fatalities."

Phelan frowned. "Vlad?"

"Won the decision and killed his Elemental opponent in twenty seconds." The Black Widow smiled slyly.

The point is, firing at the cockpit of a mech, is also at the discretion of the enemy pilot. The main goal is victory: defeating the enemy. If you can take out the legs & capture the mech intact & take the pilot as a bondsman cool, if you killed the pilot, then so be it.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 31 March 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[PaintedWolf]

I should also note, despite stereotypes it did not take the Clans that long to begin to adapt. From Blood Legacy, towards the start of the Clan Invasion- Battle for Luthien:

Quote

As he stepped back out of the line-of-sight, the binoculars autofocused out at the advancing Smoke Jaguar 'Mechs. Their paint scheme showed circlets of black dots against a gray background, mimicking the coat of the animal that gave them their name. The dust and smoke they left behind in the bloody light of dawn blotted out everything to the rear of their lines. So heavily did the smoke hang in the still morning air that Shin imagined the Clan commander had arranged it less to obscure his troops that to warn them that they must go on, for no retreat was possible.

Shin saw aerospace fighters twist through martial acrobatics in the sky, then occasionally dive at their ground-bound enemies. More than one aircraft made it through the hail of ground fire to destroy a 'Mech, but shin did not see that the attacks made the least difference.

To the west, facing the dawning sun, rank upon rank of Combine BattleMechs appeared to oppose the invaders. The crimson 'Mechs of the First Sword of Light occupied the Center of the Combine line. The Otomo, their royal blue 'Mechs arrayed in staggered ranks, made up the northern flank. The two Genyosha regiments, had been deployed at the southern flank. The black and silver 'Mechs of their Second Regiment stood at a forty-five degree angle to the main body of the Combine troops, giving the southern edge a hook to drive the Clan in toward the center.

Using their advantage of range, the Clan warriors engaged the Kurita units at long distance. Shin realized immediately that the Clans had abandoned their tactic of one warrior trying to engage another warrior in single combat. They concentrated their fire on individual targets, hitting hardest the 'Mechs equipped for LRM barrages. They kept coming as they fired, ever so slowly closing to a range at which the Combine's 'Mechs could effectively return fire.

This was December 3051. The Clans had adapted in less then a year's time, and that was after a lengthy break to regroup after a kamikaze attack killed IlKhan Leo Showers. Simply put, this was their first battle after their first defeat at Wolcott.

[Wales Grey]

Clan Players said:

Honorable: Winning
Dishonorable: ANYTHING THAT MAKES ME LOSE

That is all.

[Jimskiavic]

PaintedWolf, on 31 March 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

If Company A and Company B compete by trying to deliver better quality products at cheaper prices this can be very good to the consumer. If Company A now starts blowing up B's factories, poisoning their products, slandering them in the press with scare stories that are not true, harassing/threatening their customers and killing off their scientists and researchers, and B responds in kind, then the situation is no longer so good for the consumer or economy in general.

Love this analogy!

[PaintedWolf]

As for the utility of honor, I remember Halo 3 when the Flood lands on Earth and the human infantry are filling the air-waves with cries of fear and panic, statements like "I thought he was dead! And then it opened its eyes! And it started talking!"

Honestly in a situation like that statements such as those are the last thing I need to hear. And then the Covenant Elites land to back you up, and proudly proclaim "We march forward, with Strength and Honor!" Honestly, that rebounded my sense of hope and confidence ten fold. Perhaps, in many respects, the concept of honor is psychological, but there are times, when things seem hopeless, and the psychological/morale boost matters ten times more then ostensible or logistical factors.

[Mr Everything]

Thank you for this thread, And let me tell you what or Where the CLANS came from.

I have been playing BT TT since Battledroids, and played with Only Innersphere Mechs. All the players loved, (P.S. I owned my Own Game store and Sold BT and RAL Partha Pewter Mechs) Battletech, Some more than others, it was not a perfect system. but what game really is?

Then Sales and New Ideas for the Game started to wain. The Game Designers (Freedonian Aero Space Administration) Came up with this IDEA to shake things up and rejuvinate interest in BT.

The Clan Invasion, This allowed Ral Partha to make new molds and FASA to sell more books. Intrest in this new Faction soared.

But you cant just make new Mechs and have everyone want to Buy them. they had to be BETTER, stronger, Faster more Shootier, etc. BUt you cant just let one player have clan and the other IS and expect the innersphere Player to have any FUN at the table, so FASA wrote a Back story to Help Limit the Use of the Clan Mechs.

This Honor system was implimented on the Clans to enable Innersphere Players to be able to match up against then and make the game Fair for Both Players.

Some Players Immersed themselves into the Clan Mentality and Enjoyed Roleplaying the HONOR of being a Warrior, and calling thier opponents across the table Dishonorable Freebirth (all in good fun).

Changing gears here -------------

What I don't Like hearing and I hear this alot. is Players who fancy themselves Clanners saying that they do not have to Abide by the Honor rules because of one thing or another. If you want to play a clanner, and you dont feel you need to play with a strickt code of Honor, Then I Call you a MUNCHKIN, or Min-Maxer. I don't Want to insult or Offend the Guys who want to play Clan and will play by a strict code of Honor, i applaud you because that will be hard to do. But if you are looking for the easy win. Shame on you.

Personally I play the Innershere, because of the Inferiour Equipment, this requires Me and My unit to Play with TACTICS and Coordination just to be competative, and I am up for a good Challenge. Don't Want the easy Win. (Tactics are Ninja) Thay are hard to find on the Battlefield.

Hope i dont see Your Clan / Unit Discarding your zellwiggy just because We are IS. and yes we will all shoot the same target..FYI.

Good Hunting
P.S. If you think you are too close, get closer

[TibsVT]

Mr Everything, on 14 April 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Personally I play the Innershere, because of the Inferiour Equipment, this requires Me and My unit to Play with TACTICS and Coordination just to be competative, and I am up for a good Challenge. Don't Want the easy Win. (Tactics are Ninja) Thay are hard to find on the Battlefield.

Hope i dont see Your Clan / Unit Discarding your zellwiggy just because We are IS. and yes we will all shoot the same target..FYI.

I sir, salute you. I have a great deal of respect for anyone who picks IS over Clan. I'm a Clanner myself and look forward to playing against people like yourself who enjoy the challenge. I hope to see you on the field after we get access to our equipment!

Edited by KelesK, 17 April 2013 - 09:36 PM.

[Zatharus Mathew deTora]

Utilyan, on 23 March 2013 - 08:49 PM, said:

This is a repost sorta..... I often wonder if there still mechwarrior 2 vets out there, I learned clans, BT, mechwarrior from mechwarrior 2. To me mechwarrior2 is the holy bt-bible.

This is my personal opinionated short sighted bias.............

Mechwarrior 2 clans > TT-clans

TT-clans are klingons wanabe's.

Mechwarrior 2 clans......put BT on the map. We wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Mechwarrior 2.

Mechwarrior 2 just outshined everything about BT, I think to the point some bt ego's got bruised.

Since that massive butt kicking from Mechwarrior 2 alot of IS biased folks started dictating what it means for clan folks to be a clanner. According to them clanners are klingons.

You can watch gameplay vids of mechwarrior 2 on youtube........they are not klingons.

In mechwarrior 2 everyone was a freebirth, scrub, toad.....you earn your way out.....and everyone knew the sibko was a huge victory orgy thats why they all want to be in it.

In TT folks are grown out of test tubes, sibko was some genetic bank......and your a fk klingon.

LOL


In mechwarrior 2 you had a mission the priority is the mission...with objectives.....you blow the enemy up and leave....

In BT you have a batchall/ zellwiggy, qua' pla where you challenge the enemy to duel in simba's circle of life....and your a fk klingon.



Im curious whats the take MWO going to go with. I'd prefer they wrote something up themselves.

Maybe I need to be directed to clan novels or something to understand the klingon mechs.

I don't mind playing the part of mech klingon........

I'm curious what clan is going to show up. I hope PGI introduces thier own take.

I just stamp'em all with the moniker of "Totalitarian Space Furries" and am done with it.

[Vhetra]

"After their defeat at the Battle of Tukayyid, many of the Clans began to rethink their use of these honor rules, and a number of political, military and cultural changes took place. "


This is my favorite part of Battletech lore. Aside from everything before clans, this is the part where the meat tubers are stopped and ground to a halt. Right on the lands of the first people they invaded.

Edited by Vhetra, 18 April 2013 - 02:38 AM.

[Asheron Storm]

Mr Everything, on 14 April 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

This Honor system was implimented on the Clans to enable Innersphere Players to be able to match up against then and make the game Fair for Both Players.

Some Players Immersed themselves into the Clan Mentality and Enjoyed Roleplaying the HONOR of being a Warrior, and calling thier opponents across the table Dishonorable Freebirth (all in good fun).

Changing gears here -------------

What I don't Like hearing and I hear this alot. is Players who fancy themselves Clanners saying that they do not have to Abide by the Honor rules because of one thing or another. If you want to play a clanner, and you dont feel you need to play with a strickt code of Honor, Then I Call you a MUNCHKIN, or Min-Maxer. I don't Want to insult or Offend the Guys who want to play Clan and will play by a strict code of Honor, i applaud you because that will be hard to do. But if you are looking for the easy win. Shame on you.

Personally I play the Innershere, because of the Inferiour Equipment, this requires Me and My unit to Play with TACTICS and Coordination just to be competative, and I am up for a good Challenge. Don't Want the easy Win. (Tactics are Ninja) Thay are hard to find on the Battlefield.

Hope i dont see Your Clan / Unit Discarding your zellwiggy just because We are IS. and yes we will all shoot the same target..FYI.

Good Hunting
P.S. If you think you are too close, get closer

There's a difference though, between not wanting to use honor codes at all, and not wanting to use The Wrong honor code. As a fellow role-player, I'm sure you understand that a person wanting to play a Chivalrous French Knight, shouldn't be using that Japanese Samurai concept of honor. That would be poor role-playing. This isn't to say that either the Knight or the Samurai isn't honorable, or that either is less honorable than the other. They simply have different codes.. and both are different also from the Scottish Highland version of honor.

In universe, we shouldn't forget that the houses have their own versions of honor as well. House Mechwarriors generally don't aim for the head and generally don't shoot disabled mechs (and in fact occasionally give time for orientation when the 'mech comes back online). Pirates don't follow even these simple rules (after all, you make the most money from a 'mech killed by headshot), which is what differentiates them from House Regulars. Still.. people in this game never seem to complain about breeches of inner sphere honor codes. Why do they complain so much about clan honor?

The point made about Clan honor being a balancing factor is an interesting one. It seems to me as if the Clans which are most renowned for their honor were those Clans which began the invasion. Clan Wolf already knew about the Inner Sphere honor rules and would originally fight honorably so long as their opponents were using a version of honor. Clan Jade Falcon, iirc, saw the IS mechwarriors as being dishonorable scum, but were too proud to stray away from Clan honor rules too far. Clan Ghost Bear would have been more likely to stray from Clan honor rules, but were still generally proud and honorable. Although the theoretically had the easiest path, their enemy was vicious and didn't give a second thought to sending overwhelming forces to deal with Ghost Bears, meaning that their "balancing factor" was a numbers game, as much as Clan Honor.

It's as time marches on that we really get introduced to the "anything to win" Clans.. and those Clans that most follow this philosophy (whether they admit it or not), are mostly seen fighting other clans. Even as an invading Clan, it doesn't really matter that Steel Viper is a bunch of dishonorable Backstabbers, because they're fighting other clans as much as they fight the IS. Also as the timeline goes on, IS technology begins to catch up to the clan technology, so their simply isn't as much need of honor as a balancing factor. These are the clans and the eras that many people are talking about when they think of the Clans throwing honor aside.

That's not the situation we're in in this game though. We're still talking about the first wave, in which the Inner Sphere would get ROFLstomped without some seriously honorable Clan mechwarriors. That's why we should really be sticking to trying to role-play the more honorable Clans (Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear).. unless of course MWO finds a different way to balance the clans.

[Taemien]

Signal27, on 23 March 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

As a dirty Inner Sphere freebirth, I can already tell you what the comm chatter with the Clans is going to be like:

Did I kill someone by shooting them in the back? "Dishonorable!"

Did I run away from a fight because I was outnumbered? "Dishonorable!"

Did I return to the fight with friends and now we outnumber the clan mechs? "Dishonorable!"

Do I have an ECM equipped mech? "Dishonorable!"

Did I call for an air or artillery strike? "Dishonorable!"

Am I behind a hill lobbing LRMs at a clan mech so they can't return fire at me? "Dishonorable!"

Did I win the match by capturing the objective instead of fighting? "Dishonorable!"

Did I do anything else besides charge straight at the clan mech to engage in a brawl? "You better believe that's DISHONORABLE!!!"

I don't know of any clans that fought like that in any previous MechWarrior title. The closest they got was engaging in 1v1 duels. So I don't think we'll have to worry about them crying about dishonorablt tactics...

...Well that is until you leg them. Then we'll see a 30+ page explosion of forum complaints. I'm actually very very surprised this hasn't happened yet. This isn't limited to just clan, but the reason I bring it up here is because of how ironic it is. Sometimes you'll hear how dishonorable some claim it to be even in Lore, yet there is several references in the fiction about clanners legging their opponents in honorable combat, including two short stories in Tactical Warfare.