34 replies to this topic

[Biggieboy]

Hi guys,

I'm getting quite tired of my HBK-4P and my heavies, so i was thinking about experimenting with lights. The thread about mechs in run hot or die (http://mwomercs.com/...e-mech-designs/) recommends the 3L. On the other hand, I see and hear a lot of people complaining about them, some even calling them "cheat mechs" (guess they mean it's extremely unbalanced or something).

So, what's up with that? Are people just raging about a legit build? Does it suffer from great imbalance which people exploit? I'm not trying to start a rage war, I just want to know what's going on, and I wouldn't want a mech based on exploits or imbalance.

[StygianSon]

Cheat mech, nah. Cheap mech, maybe but the recent missile change has fixed it to some extent and they are continuing to work out the hit boxes. They got a lot of hate because of lag shield, mixed with the ecm and streaks. It was ( and still is) a very potent mech. Completely blows the other lights out of the water even with the balancing they are doing.

[Solomon Ward]

The hate is mainly a relict from the past.

Raven are really easy to leg nowadays.

I still hate them when i run my Spider

[Ridir Semii]

honestly, you can generate as much hate from any light that can carry ECM, not just rvns...

A commando, at 130kph that you thought you and your mech's systems thought you saw... ECM

A spider approaching at mach 5 slips behind a hill and never gets seen again... ECM

the already mentioned rvn 3L (love the mech,) had one chase my TDK down and outran me at 116kph... lil $%&@head... lolz

then you have their big bro... the cicada... again, running at 110+ and vanishing from sight... wait, my base is being capped???? ECM

that being said, I have no problem with ECM, when you see one, kill it, if not, kill everyone else first, eventually it wont matter that you have ECM if you are the only one alive

[NRP]

I love 3Ls when they are on my team, and I hate them when they're on the enemy team. That should explain the psychosis about this mech.

[Outfoxed]

Haters are always gonna hate. Though as mentioned above the hate is more directed at the ECM than the mech itself. Just remember if you are going to master it, you are going to need to play two more veriants that will not be as good for that very reason.

End of the day play what you enjoy playing. Personaly I like the Commando over the Raven due to the aesthetics.

[Biggieboy]

I have nothing against light mechs except that they're friggin annoying, but that's their whole point: scouting and harassing. I do find it lame that some people go immediately after the cap and insta-win, that's no fun for anyone, and it doesn't give that much cbills either. I think the conquest mode should be changed (somehow), but that's just my opinion.

Anyways, since most hate seems to come from ecm then, what's the problem with it?

[Ryebear]

The reason Run Hot or Die suggested them is they are easily one of the most effective mechs out of any weight class.

This is becoming increasingly less so all across the board but it is a combination of:

• It is generally quite hard to hit
  
• It has reliable damage against lights via Streaks and can block their's with ECM
  
• It is very fast
  
• It has ECM
  
• It has a decent loadout for its size

All of these add up to a pretty insane skill vs reward, you can do great without being great. At the very least, if you cant kill anything, merely surviving behind enemy lines for long enough will most likely net a win for your team.

[Training Instructor]

Because every nerf they've implemented to slow down the Raven 3L from being a killing machine has actually affected every other light mech as well, with the exception of the recent readjustment of the 3L hitboxes. When it comes to fighting other lights though, the 3L still has a leg up on all of them. The Jenner can compete with it, and sometimes win, especially if the pilot can sweep those 6 medium lasers with a few solid passes.

Overall though, in response to the Raven 3L, PGI made every light much easier to kill. That's where a lot of the hate comes from. In order to bring a single mech variant into line, they tried literally everything except addressing that single variant first.

[FrostCollar]

Don't forget that the 3L is also by far the best Raven variant and therefore looks better by comparison. The RVN-2X isn't capable of anything a Jenner can't do better, and the RVN-4X is capable of a variety of unique builds that are for the most part uniquely bad.

Really, the 3L's edge comes from it having more space than the ECM Commando and better hardpoints than the ECM Cicada. It is capable of exacerbating the flaws in SSRM and ECM implementation the most, but isn't to blame for the underlying issues. I admit, it had some small leg hitboxes, but those have been adjusted.

Before ECM, the 3L was fun but nothing to write home about. You'd have to be quite good or lucky to stand up to a Jenner D in it.

[MoeX]

My hate towards the 3L, as well as the splatcat and other cheesy builds, is not so much about the mechs itself, it's more about the people piloting them. I actually love the Raven, these were my first mechs and also the first ones I mastered. But a lot of people just seem to always use the most effective and easiest builds. Just compare how many 3L were on the battlefield before and after ECM was added to the gameplay. I always enjoy killing them. Newest flavor of the month seems to be the dual ac20 jager...

[ZeusAlbatros]

Get one you won't regret it.

[Tarmac]

When you drop into a game, and the opposition has SEVEN of them, something is wrong.

[Tahribator]

A Raven 3L's main weapon is it's SSRMs. Due to the how easy to use it is and overpowered that weapon was before LRM/SRM/SSRM damage nerf and with the ECM the invulnerability from the same most effective anti-light weapon, 3L's were devastating. Compared to how much aim/consistent hitting lasers require, they had the lowest skill ceiling as well.

Right now though, 3L's are where they should be after the missile damage nerf. At least I have a chance of legging them or just getting away in my Spider and not get blown up after 3 SSRM salvos followed by "cry moar".

Edited by Tahribator, 24 March 2013 - 02:35 PM.

[JediPanther]

My main mechs were the c1 and k2. With lrm spam and tking on the rise the past week I grinded out the 2x and got the 3l. I've also elited the jenners. The 3l is like the other lights in that it is ment to run fast,scout and hit-and-run on the enemy. They are hard to fight in other non ecm or ssrm carring lights.

The hate is mostly due to the ssrms. The 3l can use and fire them at almost any other mech while blocking other mechs ability to use ssrms/lrms to shoot back. I had a hk try and complain in all chat that ssrms are skillless weapons. I simply told him his moving made getting a lock on harder. They take damage same as any other mech. Since i'm use to the cats and not lights I often overheat while fighting only to get grouped up on.

Fighting other lights takes a lot of knowing how to use terrain to your advantage,kiting back to your team,luck etc. There are better light pilots than me who can probabily give more experienced advice. Speed wise I think ravens are a bit slow compared to jenner. My jen D has the xl300 and runs 150 while my 3l goes 120 with its xl 255. I have 3med lasers, one ssrm and one lrm5 on my bird.

[Buckminster]

The hate is because they are potent. They've fixed some of the issues (lag shield, bad hit boxes), but they still have the combination of speed, ECM and SSRMs which can make them nasty.

I run mine with two MPLs, two SSRMs, and with a 295XL engine and speed tweak it runs at 150 kph - fast enough to catch anything else out there. I love finding lone heavies and assaults - I can run faster than they can turn, and it's very easy to just peck them to death.

It's really the ECM/SSRM combo that people hate though. SSRMs are the best anti-light weapon out there, and the only counter is ECM. The only counter to ECM is more ECM, so having both means that you are immune to the best anti-light weapon, yet can also negate someone else's immunity for your own anti-light weapon.

[DTheSleepless]

I still hate the 3L, but not quite as much.

The problem with the 3L is that it's such a ridiculous light hunter, and so stupidly easy to build and use, that you get frustrated with pilots who think they're amazing at MWO because they're killing everything, and you get frustrated because any other light you might want to run will fold like a cheap suit the instant the 3L pilot gets a whiff of it.

The variant itself is also hilariously unbalanced compared to the others. It has pretty much the best hardpoints of the three, PLUS it can carry ECM, PLUS it has a much higher engine ceiling.
If you like piloting lights that don't end in 3L, that mech probably ruined MWO for you for a few months and still remains a serious pest. It used to be virtually every broken mechanic in the game in one mech, now it's just been reduced to "unbalanced." If you want respect from your fellow players, avoid it.

[BigJim]

Ran a league match last night, and Ravens where not the only Light mech of choice, for both teams, and neither was ECM/Streaks the deciding factor in the light-game.
First time I've seen that since Open beta.

Was an amazing set of games, most fun I've had as a scout pilot in months.
Make of that what you will.

Edited by BigJim, 25 March 2013 - 12:33 AM.

[Ridir Semii]

I started the enhancement teir on the rvn first, with the 4x, I wanted to 'poptart' so to speak, I like the hardpoints on it, I went to a 2x and 3l as well to get all 3 and then all hell broke loose with them; into the mechbays, strip down 3 ravens and sell the chassis' off... I now am the proud owner of 3 Commandos:
The Death's Knell "Mini Me"
2d "InsectusXIII"
1b "Splat"

I'm enjoying the new twist

[Magicbullet141]

most people dont like the 3L since it's overpowered. It can max out speed, streak, and ecm, beating out all other lights.