67 replies to this topic

[Captain Stiffy]

What is up with these things? They seem almost completely useless. I once put like 9 of them on a hunchback just to see if it could do anything... almost nada.

Has anyone actually used them effectively?

[Signal27]

Nope!

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Yep, they're broken and useless, much like the Machine Gun


inb4 "omg flaemrs r gr8 u just need to learn how to use them nub"

Edited by mwhighlander, 24 March 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[TempestWolf1]

once did the same thing for the lulz... all i did is blind myself and my target for my allies to shoot him )

[Captain Stiffy]

It would be cool if there was smoke/fire/heat penalties from terrain on trees in the game.

[Tennex]

cheap light ballistic slots need to be good because the next closest thing is 6 tons?

are you out of your mind?

[Gralzeim]

Well, they are at least good at irritating players. It's distracting as heck to have a flamer shot at the front of your mech. I've seen light mechs use them as a sort of 'taunt' skill against enemies. Friend in a trial Commando actually got an enemy to change targets to him rather than me in my Raven 3L (which people normally target first because ECM).

Basically it was like "ECM? NOT IN MY HOUS- ohgod my face is on fire KILL THE METAL BABY"

But they do basically nothing to an enemy's heat while generating a ton of heat for the firing mech. Unfortunately.

Edited by Gralzeim, 24 March 2013 - 05:01 PM.

[Vrekgar]

Captain Stiffy, on 24 March 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

What is up with these things? They seem almost completely useless. I once put like 9 of them on a hunchback just to see if it could do anything... almost nada.

Has anyone actually used them effectively?

[stjobe]

Fun Fact: The flamers were buffed in this last patch

[Davers]

Flamers look cool, just like machine huns sound cool. But that is it. They do laughable amount of damage, the flamer can't handle the amount of heat sinks mechs carry to do much of anything. And the crit bonus just doesn't compare to doing actual damage. If we had 3x structure instead of 2x armor, maybe it would mean more, but you can destroy unarmored sections too fast for the crit bonus to mean anything.

[Deamhan]

There are a couple things with flamers..

1. Despite the visual representation, they are as accurate as a laser. Check it out for yourself. You can hit the cockpit of an atlas with one and leave the rest of the mech untouched.

2. According to mwo wiki, it has a recycle of .1 and damage of .4. So 4 dps. However, since it is as accurate as a laser, it took ~35 sec to take the head off of a commando on testing grounds. Just ten seconds equals 40 damage so there is something wrong somewhere. In game the flamer has a cool down of 0 (rate of fire is N/A) and damage of .4 and I believe that the .4 is the dps for the weapon. .4 x 35 = 14 dmg. This is definitely closer. Any further error was simply because I was counting and not using the ingame timer or some other watch.

3. It also generates a lot of heat. If the .4 dmg is per second then I believe the heat generated and heat damage is as well. Well the heat generated is .6 heat per second while the heat done to the enemy is only .2 heat per second. All this on a weapon that has the same tonnage as a medium laser.

So....

medium laser vs Flamer

One ton / One tone
One slot / One slot
270m / 64m (optimal)
540m / 64m (max range)
1.25dps* / .4 dps
1 hps** / .6 hps (generated) [more to follow on this one]
0 hps/ .2 hps (dealt to the enemy)

* The cool down for the weapon doesn't start until the weapon finishes firing. The beam duration of a medium laser is 1 second and the cool down is 3 secons for a total time between shots of 4 seconds. 5 dmg / 4 seconds = 1.25dps.

** Same idea as the damage. 4 seconds between shots and it generates 4 heat per shot for 1 hps.

Now I believe there is an issue with the heat generated as well. While it says that it is .6 and the medium laser is 4. We know the medium laser generates 4 per shot and generates just 1 heat per second due to the time between shots. The flamer has no time between shots. it is a constant stream weapon. The issue is that I was able to fire my medium and my heat would return to 0% in the 3 second CD. So I could hold down the button and continue to fire the medium laser indefinitely. I could not do the same with a single flamer. First it would generate an instant amount of heat (around 15% instantly) then it sits at that % for a little while before it finally begins to climb again and will do so until I overheat. So obviously, the truth of the matter is that the flamer generates more heat per second than the medium laser and not the other way around.

This means the .6 shown is not .6 per second. It is either wrong or that .6 is applied at incraments that are less than a second in duration. In fact, the .6 heat would have to be applied every .6 seconds just to equal the medium laser. So it is applied more frequently that every .6 seconds.

Oh, and the flamer is not a crit seeker. Again, testing this, I had better luck critting with the medium laser than I did with the flamer where too often I would simply destroy the body part with the flamer without having destroyed any of the weapons before hand.

So if you are gonna choose. Go with the medium laser, for the same tonnage and weight you will get better range, better damage, and less heat generated.

That .2 heat damage to the enemy is not worth giving up the range, damage, and increased heat generated.

What do they need to do?

They need to up the damage to be on par with a medium and reduce the heat per second to that of a medium. Keep the range the same but increase the heat damage.

[Rayah]

The HBK-4P Flamer-Boat was a closed-beta exploit believe it or not....

That thing was deadly, but that's because the Flamers were really screwy back then.

[stoicfaux]

Flaming someone's cockpit blocks their view, does it not?

[Kaspirikay]

stoicfaux, on 24 March 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Flaming someone's cockpit blocks their view, does it not?

Only works vs inexperienced players, though. Most good people will just fall back on electronic targeting and sensors.

[Writer]

Davers, on 24 March 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Flamers look cool, just like machine huns sound cool. But that is it. They do laughable amount of damage, the flamer can't handle the amount of heat sinks mechs carry to do much of anything. And the crit bonus just doesn't compare to doing actual damage. If we had 3x structure instead of 2x armor, maybe it would mean more, but you can destroy unarmored sections too fast for the crit bonus to mean anything.

I agree. Mechs are still too squishy. It's much easier to rip a Left or Right Torso off instead of giving players time to wreck **** with crit-seeking weapons.

[stjobe]

Deamhan, on 24 March 2013 - 05:23 PM, said:

2. According to mwo wiki, it has a recycle of .1 and damage of .4. So 4 dps.

The flamer doesn't have a recycle. Check smurfy for accurate stats (parsed from the game files each patch). DPS is 0.4.

[Deamhan]

stjobe, on 24 March 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

The flamer doesn't have a recycle. Check smurfy for accurate stats (parsed from the game files each patch). DPS is 0.4.

Or you can just check the ingame specs for it. You never did read my entire post did you. Here let me help...


2. According to mwo wiki, it has a recycle of .1 and damage of .4. So 4 dps. However, since it is as accurate as a laser, it took ~35 sec to take the head off of a commando on testing grounds. Just ten seconds equals 40 damage so there is something wrong somewhere. In game the flamer has a cool down of 0 (rate of fire is N/A) and damage of .4 and I believe that the .4 is the dps for the weapon. .4 x 35 = 14 dmg. This is definitely closer. Any further error was simply because I was counting and not using the ingame timer or some other watch.

Edited by Deamhan, 24 March 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[Davers]

Rayzor, on 24 March 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

The HBK-4P Flamer-Boat was a closed-beta exploit believe it or not....

That thing was deadly, but that's because the Flamers were really screwy back then.

Yeah, I remember being 'locked' by 6 flamer Jenners in CB. Not really fun. Flamers are one of those weapons that if one works well, a bunch is OP. But they are pretty useless now. I had a match where I was in a zombie Hunchback with only a small head laser vs a zombie Centurion with 2 torso mounted flamers. We stood toe to toe and just held down our fire buttons. I cored him without him doing anything to me.

[Major Derps]

PGI have capped the amount they can heat a mech (this is their primary purpose, so don't expect good damage numbers). This is to prevent people boating them as you have done, and being able to permanantly shut an enemy mech down, instead limiting the enemies damage potential. I find they can be fun fitted on my ECM commando, with 3 ssrms and 1 flamer, but I wouldnt use them on anything else.

[XphR]

stoicfaux, on 24 March 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

Flaming someone's cockpit blocks their view, does it not?

I have found this to be the case, and used it as an effective watch my Commando turn into an Atlas in a flash of sparks and fire! I have also used it as an aerial alert in PUG matches when typing locations would be to time consuming.