31 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

ballistics seem too strong with the jagermech out and the new maps; all i see are ballistic - it's quickly becoming the new FOTM

gauss shooting my assault mech twice results in my death (twice!)

ppc is too slow to respond to ballistic jagermechs on most of these maps and the damage from ppc is just too low to become effective against them.

ppc is supposed to be a very good long range weapon, right now it's not.
it's pretty bad compared to ballistics

oh and don't go mentioning ammo, because that's what the heat difference is for!

i shouldn't say ppc needs a buff, more like ballistics need a slight nerf

their damage to rate of fire is ridiculous

a slight decrease to fire rate would do wonders, jagermech is a bit too potent now that players have realized how to outfit it with armor

Edited by Mazzyplz, 23 March 2013 - 06:11 PM.

[Dephylr]

you could try a different weapon or just get good with er ppc's. I agree that the whole rof and damage is a little more than it should be but if you play smart with er ppc's that negates a lot of the damage. In regards to gauss, they explode quite easily so that's a nerf in it's own aspect. I would say my point is: working as intended and just practice.

[focuspark]

Awesome... there's a NERF PPC! thead right next to this BUFF PPC! thread.

Guess that means PPC is just about right.

[BallSabre]

The reason why ballistics a so common now AND the only real long range weapons is because they nerfed the hfill out of missiles, espesially LRMs. Nobody will use missiles anymore and boating lasers is lame so everyone is boating ballistics and running out of ammo half way through the match.

And I'm going to mention ammo anyway, the heat doesn't balance infinite ammo and it never will, that is why ballistics and missiles do more damage perburst.

Deal with it.

[Ralgas]

ultra's are a little insane atm, but it'll die down when the "ooh, shiny" of the jaggers wear off

[Mazzyplz]

focuspark, on 23 March 2013 - 11:42 PM, said:

Awesome... there's a NERF PPC! thead right next to this BUFF PPC! thread.

Guess that means PPC is just about right.

i said:

Quote

i shouldn't say ppc needs a buff, more like ballistics need a slight nerf

how many times were you dropped as a kid?

Quote

or just get good with er ppc's

thanks mr 9 post noob.
i'm quite good with ER PPC; but my skill does not factor in here; multiple ac2 will be better at 1000+ meters regardless.



2 shots from anything is not supposed to critical an assault mech, its broken as it is.

fact of the matter is simple; er ppc cannot compete with ballistics long range, or with ballistics short range, even without the minimum range limitation.
jagermech with dual ac20 will obliterate an awesome in 5-6 shots, where it takes at least double that ammount with er ppcs

Edited by Mazzyplz, 24 March 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Falconic]

ERPPC is an unlimited weapon... It does good peak damage and weighs like half of its ballistic equivalent. Some of the ballistics probably need a buff.

Things ERPPCs have going for it: decent "projectile" speed, unlimited ammo, defeats ecm, low weight per damage. Things a AC10 has going for it... ... ... ... ... I'll get back to you. O wait, it has less heat... ... ... ... higher dps?... ... ...

Are you trolling?

[focuspark]

Ah I see... Mazzylz = troll. /ignore

[Mazzyplz]

Falconic, on 24 March 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

ERPPC is an unlimited weapon... It does good peak damage and weighs like half of its ballistic equivalent. Some of the ballistics probably need a buff.

Things ERPPCs have going for it: decent "projectile" speed, unlimited ammo, defeats ecm, low weight per damage. Things a AC10 has going for it... ... ... ... ... I'll get back to you. O wait, it has less heat... ... ... ... higher dps?... ... ...

Are you trolling?

nope not trolling, ac10 might need a buff to be up to par but ac20 and gauss definitely outdo the ppc. at long ranges 1000+ and at short ranges 250- it's way better

the otherguy whatshisname; is already on ignore from this side since 4 posts ago

Edited by Mazzyplz, 24 March 2013 - 05:43 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Lol and to think they havent properly fixed the hit detection on ballistics yet.. ..they are only going to get more potent.

I for this point disagree with the OP. I am running Jager-AA and have found that with the builds i used that the ballistics are not really working as intended. I tried out a dual guass - at optimum range this should be enough to strip the armor of most mechs in one shot (note i said strip not kill), and if your lucky to get a headshot it should kill in one shot.

Now, i have had plenty of games where i have shot targets and seen the shot hit - it has registered. I know the shot has not missed - yet the damage is not as high as expected. 2 gauss = 30 damage - if a torso is still yellow after two gauss shots hit it then something is up imo, would expect to at least see some orange/red.

On the other hand, with AC5's and UAC5 - the jager is dakka, dakka, dakka!!! I have found this to be more effective. Although pretty easy to avoid if you keep distance and keep moving.

[Falconic]

Mazzyplz, on 24 March 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

nope not trolling, ac10 might need a buff to be up to par but ac20 and gauss definitely outdo the ppc. at long ranges 1000+ and at short ranges 250- it's way better

the otherguy whatshisname; is already on ignore from this side since 4 posts ago

I see your point. You are comparing one to one. In that argument 1 to 1, I agree with you. Standing facing a mech with the Gauss I would feel inadequate with an ERPPC in my hands. However, I rarely see any mech with just one ERPPC mounted (lights excluded... I don't think lights can carry 1 Gauss either... I'll have to test this.) The most any mech can carry of Gauss is 2 with the abundance of Gauss carry mechs only having 1. With that argument meaning most of the time damage is 20 to 15 at range and probably both only peeking to shoot (i.e. heat not included because you hide to cool.) I give advantage to the ERPPC.

With AC20: There is a abundance of AC20 mechs at the moment. The merits of a dual AC20 machine are manifesting itself. Convergence on these monsters of close range destruction is beast. However, the range of these weapons tappers off into ineffectiveness quickly. 270-800 range meaning at 500-600 it is doing 10 dmg. I don't see this really effecting the ERPPC heavily and honestly comparing the two seems like comparing a MG to a Small Laser. (Which I do religiously.)

So by all means continue to promote the ERPPC, but I don't think you argument is developed enough at the moment to convince me.

[0X2A]

You're porbably engaging enemies at a close range. On maps like Alpine, Caustic, and The new desert one, most of my ERPPC engagements start at a comfortable 1,000M. Landing shots at this distance lands you a solid 7+ damage/hit for each PPC.

Think of it this way:
PPC/ERPPCs are the kings of sniping with a 2,000m/s projectile speed

Ballistics with the same power lack both the range and speed to snipe.

My 2 cents....

[Gaan Cathal]

White Bear 84, on 24 March 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

I for this point disagree with the OP. I am running Jager-AA and have found that with the builds i used that the ballistics are not really working as intended. I tried out a dual guass - at optimum range this should be enough to strip the armor of most mechs in one shot (note i said strip not kill), and if your lucky to get a headshot it should kill in one shot.

Now, i have had plenty of games where i have shot targets and seen the shot hit - it has registered. I know the shot has not missed - yet the damage is not as high as expected. 2 gauss = 30 damage - if a torso is still yellow after two gauss shots hit it then something is up imo, would expect to at least see some orange/red.

The issue is with your expectations. Firstly, it takes 34 damage to score a cockpit kill, dual-Gauss only gives you 30. Secondly, for heavy+ mechs, 60+ armour on the CT is decidedly achievable, so two gauss hits will only take them to half armour, which I believe is still yellow state.

[UberFubarius]

0X2A, on 24 March 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:

You're porbably engaging enemies at a close range. On maps like Alpine, Caustic, and The new desert one, most of my ERPPC engagements start at a comfortable 1,000M. Landing shots at this distance lands you a solid 7+ damage/hit for each PPC.

Think of it this way:
PPC/ERPPCs are the kings of sniping with a 2,000m/s projectile speed

Ballistics with the same power lack both the range and speed to snipe.

My 2 cents....

Except PPC generates a lot of heat. And ERPPC even more.
Let's look at damage/heat generated (and let's compare ballistic weapon similar to PPC/ERPPC in term of DPS and range, so Gauss, AC/2, AC/5, UAC/5, and AC/10).
PPC: 1.25 dmg/heat
ERPPC: 0.9 dmg/heat
Gauss: 15 dmg/heat
AC/2: 2 dmg/heat
AC/5: 5 dmg/heat
UAC/5: 5 dmg/heat
AC/10: 3.33 dmg/heat

Also, note that excluding AC/5, all other ballistic weapons have higher DPS than PPC/ERPPC. Arguably, AC/2 beats PPC/ERPCC on the followings.
1. Weight (arguably): 1 PPC = 1 AC/2 + 1 Ton ammo.
2. DPS: PPC has 3.33/s, AC/2 has 4/s. AC/2 also has less heat/dmg, therefore also need less heatsink (although those tonnage/space saving probably translates to ammos).
3. Range: AC/2 has no minimum range, better effective range, and better max range.
The only thing AC/2 doesn't beat PPC on is in it's Alpha damage.

[Tombstoner]

Working as intended.... otherwise we would see more frequent changes.

[sC4r]

ERPPC is one of the best weapons u can find ingame...
insane range, very good punch, does some heat dmg to enemy mech, shuts down ecm for a while, and the projectile moves fast as hell too also tonnage is fair... at the cost of hmmm lots of heat build up

and if you dare to say that ac2 is better weapon than either PPC/ERPPC ill just laugh at you... yes nice constant dps... but i doubt you can pull that off on anything more than target standing still or facehugging atlas... as for ppc you just take one good aim pull the trigger and take cover

ac5 loses lots of dps compared to ac2 in addition to projectile speed and range... but doesnt overheat as much

uac5 unreliable as hell... but with a bit of luck or boating them it can be effective

ac10 is only better than ppcs in short range but takes a lot more space/tons on your mech... though it has less heat build up

gauss... okay weights twice the ppc, has slower projectile but it has no heat buildup and has more damage... i think a fair trade and very comparable weapon

ac20 shouldnt be compared to this as it serves totaly different purpose but w/e... twice dmg for twice tonage and a lot more crits but has shorter range for a lot less heat build up

machine gun... no comment

ppcs are fine as they are now
there is just this hype now since balisitic boat was released and may seem to be overperforming
same was with the stalker... suddenly LRMS EVERYWHERE

[Mothykins]

I have both a Jager DD(Two AC2, Two AC5) and a Catapult K2 (Two ERPPC, Two MedLas)

Both average about the same for kills and assists, the Jager does however have a higher damage output. It also dies faster because I need an XL engine to fit ammo in the thing. The Jager also tends to spread damage across the target much more then the K2 does. Heat-wise, they're about equal. That said, ammo shortages happen often for the Jager, especially on the larger maps.

You're trading overall damage for limited hits when you take ballistic over energy. Plus explosive ammo (Or Gun, in the Gauss' case), slot size limitations and the ever present aiming issues because of the bullets speed.

[Mazzyplz]

Cavale, on 25 March 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I have both a Jager DD(Two AC2, Two AC5) and a Catapult K2 (Two ERPPC, Two MedLas)

Both average about the same for kills and assists, the Jager does however have a higher damage output. It also dies faster because I need an XL engine to fit ammo in the thing. The Jager also tends to spread damage across the target much more then the K2 does. Heat-wise, they're about equal. That said, ammo shortages happen often for the Jager, especially on the larger maps.

You're trading overall damage for limited hits when you take ballistic over energy. Plus explosive ammo (Or Gun, in the Gauss' case), slot size limitations and the ever present aiming issues because of the bullets speed.

so the solution for a ppc boat is to hide behind a rock for 3 minutes, or maybe absorb 90% of the ammo in different body sections? that's just stupid.
it needs to be more even between the 2

[ShadowDrake05]

AC/2 is better than PPCs? LOL

There's a big issue which no one has directly brought up: Front-loading damage.

Go ahead and duel someone who has 2 ERPPCs while you have 4 AC/2s. I'll tell you who is going to win every time - the guy with ERPPCs. Pop over the hill, do full damage, go back down and wait.

Yes AC/2 may have more DPS but you need to be aiming and hitting the target constantly to make that happen. In a game where you can pop up and hide at will this is a no-contest issue. And gauss takes more slots and has limited ammo. Try an extended brawl. PPCs don't quit - your gauss will run out very rapidly.

You really sound like you've just used PPCs and not gauss all that much.

[focuspark]

ShadowDrake05, on 25 March 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

AC/2 is better than PPCs? LOL

There's a big issue which no one has directly brought up: Front-loading damage.

Go ahead and duel someone who has 2 ERPPCs while you have 4 AC/2s. I'll tell you who is going to win every time - the guy with ERPPCs. Pop over the hill, do full damage, go back down and wait.

Yes AC/2 may have more DPS but you need to be aiming and hitting the target constantly to make that happen. In a game where you can pop up and hide at will this is a no-contest issue. And gauss takes more slots and has limited ammo. Try an extended brawl. PPCs don't quit - your gauss will run out very rapidly.

You really sound like you've just used PPCs and not gauss all that much.

quoted for truth