125 replies to this topic

[JohnoBurr]

Lord Perversor, on 24 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

Also alway remember the Dragon it's 5Kp/h Slower than Tabletop, so if PGI sets the number right we should be faster...

Anyway i fell in love with my 1C

lbx-10, Srm 6, 4x Med lasers
300 xl, endo and DHS (still enough place for ams and Bap)

Yep, that's a great build. I run the same thing except with a regular AC10.

[SVK Puskin]

I knew one player who loved the Dragon with triple AC/2 and he was a big badass with this loadout. Unfortunatelly he lost interest for this game.

[Major Derps]

Dragons were highly effective when collisions were still in, after all, that's what they were designed for. They are more of a 'dirty' pilots 'mech. When we still had collisions, you would see packs of dragons doing nothing but knocking 'mechs over so they were easy kills. No doubt they were the catalyst for collisions being removed outright, instead of being fixed.

[Lege]

Dragon has no punch and a big nose.
I tried to miss your nose by shooting at the mountain, but I hit the Dragons nose anyway.
So easy to core, it isn't funny.
Most people don't even bother to change the armor, so the rear armor is usually really thin too.
60 ton has always been one I didn't like. Nothing was really that good or worked very well.
35, 55 and 75 have so much more potential.
under 35 is not a good idea, just too easy to die.
35-40 you can make some fast mechs with decent fire power.
45-50 not bad, can make some very nice mechs at this tonnage
55 is just better and the heaviest mech for .5 ton jump jets
60-65 never worked for me
70 does ok, but 75 is a sweet spot
80 is ok
85 is nice, heaviest mech for 1 ton jump jets
90 is good
95-100, just too big and slow

I'd really like to see a fast 55 ton mech with 6 hard points in a energy/missile mix and one variant with ecm.
Something with a base engine of a 275, so the max engine would be 355.

[ElLocoMarko]

Yes. It is a medium... with a HUGE center torso.

6 hardpoints in weird layouts that often prevent multiples of larger guns that are the standard in the other heavies (dual UAC5 - NO! Dual SRM6 - NO!)
Jenners have 6 hardpoints. Hunchbacks have 6 to 9. Dragon has 6. So it had better mount bigger guns in the hard points that it has.

The wicked upturn in tonnage of energy weapons pretty much means you are going to mount medium lasers and like it. If there was a 2-3 ton, 2 crit double-barrel medium laser... then we would have something to work with.

Also keep in mind with class matching and the dragon being mis-labelled as Heavy, dropping as a Dragon could very well bring a cataphract or catapult onto the opposing team... if you are lucky it will be another dragon. I'm not saying that a Dragon can't defeat one of its larger heavy brethren. I've done it plenty of times. But it takes the right terrain and maneuvering and way too much time.

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 24 January 2013 - 02:20 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

The Dragon does indeed have a huge Center Torso. Chances are if you pilot one having your CT cored is what's going to kill you. That said, this liability can be turned into an advantage of sorts as the fact that your side torsos are likely to be hit less than your CT means the Dragon is a good candidate for an XL engine without risking dying to side toso loss as badly as many other mechs would.

Personally I'd like to see the Grand Dragon released, but at least you can turn a Flame into something close to a GD.

[ArcDemon]

The Dragon, Cicada and Awesome are all essentially hybrid mechs, being a heavier armored version of their respective previous tier. How well a hybrid design works depends on the loadout and the player. If you try playing a Dragon exclusively like a heavy it will lose, but it play it like a juiced up medium it is very powerful. Same goes with the Cicada, it is essentially a light mech but with a little more armor, a few more hard points and an extra 5 tons to let it mount bigger weapons then a light would normally carry. The Awesome is probably the weakest of the hybrids - except for the 9M it doesn't have the speed to really run with heavies and it has that barn sized chest for enemies to shoot at.

[Curtsy]

I have a Dragon DRG-SN(C) It started out with a Gauss and 2 large lasers, It still has the weapons, but more armour and a smaller engine, (55kmh). I do alright in a fight. The issue is I am having is he gets killed faster then a medium. why is that?

[Scout80913]

Curtsy, on 11 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

I have a Dragon DRG-SN© It started out with a Gauss and 2 large lasers, It still has the weapons, but more armour and a smaller engine, (55kmh). I do alright in a fight. The issue is I am having is he gets killed faster then a medium. why is that?

As others above have noted, your CT is huge. Even torso twisted perfectly, your can still be shot in the CT because of the 'nose' of the Dragon. Hence, unless you are being very mobile, it's very easy for an opponent to concentrate their shots into the Dragon's CT and kill it.

[Mahws]

Curtsy, on 11 June 2013 - 08:31 PM, said:

I have a Dragon DRG-SN© It started out with a Gauss and 2 large lasers, It still has the weapons, but more armour and a smaller engine, (55kmh). I do alright in a fight. The issue is I am having is he gets killed faster then a medium. why is that?

The Dragon has a large center torso, making it an extremely hard mech to use for new players. You take more damage to your center torso and less to your side torsos, meaning in a straight up fight you tend to crumple pretty quickly.

First thing you need to do is go back to using a real engine. No mech should be going at 55km/h unless it's an Atlas. Especially not a Dragon. Put that XL300 back in, I guarantee you whatever mech you put it into won't benefit from it as much as your Dragon.

Second thing, revert your changes to the armor. The Dragon 5N© already has a perfectly fine armor layout by default. The only things that aren't already at max are the head and legs, neither of which needs more armor. You could honestly do with less armor on your arms and legs (especially the legs) if you want to free up an extra tonne.

Third thing, learn to move and shoot. If you're standing still in a Dragon you're doing it wrong. The other Dragons have the advantage of high mounted side torso energy weapons, allowing them to be effective ridge shooters as they only have to ppp the cockpit and side torsos over a hill to fire. The 5N can't do that, so you need to learn how to use your speed, run out of, or between cover, fire off your weapons as you move and stick to cover till you're ready to shoot again.

Keep moving and when your weapons aren't ready to fire twist your torso. A Dragon can be a very effective mech in the hands of an experienced player, but it's one of the least forgiving for new players, so you'll have to learn to swim at the deep end.

Here's a custom build you might find a little easier/more effective.
DRG-5N©

Run out of cover, fire all of your weapons on the move and duck back out of sight before you can be hit. Feel free to sub out the ERPPC for regular PPC if you feel like you're running too hot. Fire off your ERPPCs whenever you have a shot and save the Gauss for when you're running too hot to fire the PPC or have a clear shot.

You can brawl in a Dragon, but it's one of the hardest mechs to do so. Keep your speed up, stick behind your brawlers and use your speed to get into positions to hit wounded mechs to finish them off or take off arms/legs/torsos and you'll find yourself doing a lot better.

Edited by Mahws, 11 June 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Killashnikov]

I currently love my Flame - 2LLas 2MLas SSRM2. 300XL (90kph after speed tweak) lovely light killer, and can skirmish with the best of them, but NEVER NEVER NEVER try to go toe to toe with anyone. Run all the time, shoot from the flanks. Wolfpack tactics with this mech is the rule of the day.

This is not the mech for anyone obsessed with KDR. It is much more likely to assist than kill due to poor penetration of laser weapons. Alternately you can replace the lasers with PPC/ERPPC. Poorer heat profile better penetration. Same tactics and sniping.

[Motroid]

Adridos, on 01 June 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

It's an oversized medium. 5th fastest of all the mechs we have, but with lots of armor.

Have to correct here: Jenner, Commando, Raven, Spider, Cicada, Centurion and Trebuchets can be faster than Dragons 106,9 km/h. Making him the 8th fastest so far. Waiting for Quickdraw. Expecting it being similar to the Dragon in terms of speed...

[Killashnikov]

Try not to solo. A dragon works best with other targets around. People underestimate them and will choose to shoot at the greater perceived threat. This is where a Dragon can often turn the game by putting accurate fire into a brawl.

If caught in a brawl with no cover around - run AT the enemy - get behind it.

Especially if there are others in a position to capitalise on a turned mech.

Then find cover fast

Edited by Killashnikov, 11 June 2013 - 09:21 PM.

[Mahws]

Motroid, on 11 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Have to correct here: Jenner, Commando, Raven, Spider, Cicada, Centurion and Trebuchets can be faster than Dragons 106,9 km/h. Making him the 8th fastest so far. Waiting for Quickdraw. Expecting it being similar to the Dragon in terms of speed...

Quickdraw has a 300 stock, same as the Dragon, so it'll have the same max engine size and speed. It'll likely replace the Dragon for most players. Same speed, but likely much better hitboxes. Trades ballistics for viable missiles and more lasers. And optional Jump Jets to boot.

I love my Dragons, but it'll be hard to justify them as being a real alternative.

[Baddicus Wolf]

Motroid, on 11 June 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

Have to correct here: Jenner, Commando, Raven, Spider, Cicada, Centurion and Trebuchets can be faster than Dragons 106,9 km/h. Making him the 8th fastest so far. Waiting for Quickdraw. Expecting it being similar to the Dragon in terms of speed...

The comment that you corrected was made over a year ago ... so it's more of an update than a correction (as his was correct at the time it was made).

Edited by Baddicus Wolf, 13 June 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[Cubivorre]

If you opt for the maximum engine, you should be handicapped on firepower.

I, on the other hand, opt for the XL 300 engine and can manage 2LL, 2ML, and an AC/10 with 30 rounds of ammunition traveling at 89 kph. It's pretty fearsome when people hear my dragon roar.

So nay - I do not think it is underpowered. I think the vast majority of people trying to use dragons get the wrong idea about how they are supposed to use them so they only seem less effective. I can consistently put upwards of around 400-800 damage in mine. Usually with a handful of kills too.

Getting those big numbers isn't always the mark of a good dragon pilot, however. They need to be able to flank well and know when to engage the enemy. They require lots of situational awareness.

I know the thread is about the DRG's firepower, but even with it's 'limited' carrying capacity it can still breathe some pretty hot fire(and I'm not talking flamers here!) as long as the pilot is skilled with the chassis.

EDIT: Wait a minute - Why the hell did this thread get necrotized?

Edited by Cubivorre, 13 June 2013 - 02:58 AM.

[Trufast]

Some of them are ok, and the flame is really good. Gauss, 4 medium lasers and an XL 350.



In general you need to have a 350 XL in it, since your job is big flanking and you don't have enough firepower or armor to justify going any less than 100 kph. Especially if you have a loadout that needs cooling down from time to time. The quickdraw will be really interesting, but SRMs need a buff before it can make the dragons "obsolete".

[Sasha Volkova]

Rodney28021, on 04 June 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

My thoughts exactly, if i have a Dragon, will drop speed to 4 / 6 and add more heatsinks and armor, PPC, keep LRMs but increase to LRM15 or 20, remove AC/5 and add more medium lasers and ammo. Try the Dragon first as a speedy long range weak fighter, just keep running away and use your long range weapons till you run out of ammo. Then convert Dragon to Grand Dragon by dropping AC/5 and adding PPC, 1 medium laser and 2 heatsinks, then try fighting again.

Its not that I dont like the idea... but no dragon can boost an LRM above 10 since they are placed in the torso and therefore limited to 2 slots only.

[Cubivorre]

Trufast, on 13 June 2013 - 03:36 AM, said:

In general you need to have a 350 XL in it

I don't disagree with you, but I definitely prefer my XL300 with added firepower. I can assure you - I can still maneuver where I need to be and lay down more than enough fire.

[Trufast]

Cubivorre, on 13 June 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

I don't disagree with you, but I definitely prefer my XL300 with added firepower. I can assure you - I can still maneuver where I need to be and lay down more than enough fire.

What's your loadout then? I tried XL 300 in a couple of builds, but I never really got it to work.

Edit: nvm, 2 ml, 2 LL and ac10 right? I'll try it out

Edited by Trufast, 13 June 2013 - 05:30 AM.