88 replies to this topic

[Ironbound]

I'm making this thread under the assumption that you agree that 6 srm A1s are dumb, cheesy builds. If you don't agree that's fine, but in my personal experience from playing against them/piloting one I would say that they very much are. Whether or not it's overpowered is a whole different conversation.

I'm sure this argument has been done to death, so I'm not here to list reasons it is or counter reasons it isn't, I'm here to suggest a solution to the problem of mechs that are clearly meant to lrm boats/fire support mechs turning into srm sporting brawlers.

The weapon bay doors was a great idea, putting lag behind srms firing makes them just a bit slower and harder to use, effectively eliminating them. However, since the doors can be kept open indefinitely, this problem is ignorable.

Now I've heard rumors there is a damage bonus on open bay doors, but I feel, again from anecdotal experience from a few hundred games playing as one/ fighting them, that it is far and away not enough. I've heard 5%, if anyone has more information I'd love to hear it.

To the suggestion:

Make a shot against an open weapon bay door have a small chance to crit internals/ destroy a weapon used there.

This would make it so that potshotting them right as they open on lrm mechs wouldn't be incredibly powerful, but keeping them open indefinitely and letting someone land multiple hits is a very bad idea. It also sticks to reality: If I leave my missile tubes open, missile tubes that have weapon bay doors and are therefore unarmored themselves, I deserve to get borked if I get hit in them.

You could keep them open during short fights in which you really need that responsiveness, but keeping them open all the time would no longer be the obvious choice, and the A1 Skillcat would be a much less common sight on the battlefield.

This would also just generally help PGI distinguish LRM mechs from SRM mechs, as right now the two are very much interchangeable.

Thoughts?

[Vassago Rain]

No.

[yashmack]

it already does, I cant tell you how many times ive destroyed SRMs on cats and had my own destroyed on my SRM cat because i left my doors open
you get little to no protection of your weapons with the doors open, you basically have whatever armor/health the launcher has and that's it
Ive had almost full armor on my ears and stil had multiple destroyed SRM launchers
I don't see a problem with the SRM cat build, they're pretty hard hitting but they're inaccurate as the damage they deal gets very spread out and they're easy to kill, just aim for the cockpit or the ears...

[Ironbound]

That armor thing has literally never happened to me haha, I've only lost srms when my armor was gone. And I've played quite a few games in it.

I'm not saying it's OP, I'm saying it's against the feel the chassis is supposed to have, by a long shot.

[yashmack]

I disagree, its a missile boat
doesnt matter if theyre long or short theyre still missiles...

[Jakob Knight]

Your assumptions are wrong, and your choice of which forum to post in is incorrect.

I don't think the build is 'cheesy', since it is very much what the mech is supposed to be (missile carrier). I also don't see how any player can hold this opinion since they were the ones who so cried against the CPLT carrying anything else (LRMs, SSRMs) that to now say regular SRMs make it cheesy is only proving how invalid the original complaints were. If you didnt' want them to mount 6xSRMs, then -maybe- you should have thought about that before pushing the Devs to insert a system that didn't remove all other options from effective use.

And, there is a Suggestions forum. Maybe you should try posting there for a -suggestion-?

Edit: And to make this even remotely not another 'Kill the Cat' thread from a bunch of haters, you would have to apply the same rule to any weapon on any mech, regardless of if it had doors or not. If it lacked doors, chance to crit would be unavoidable at all times. If you have trouble understanding why this would be needed for fairness, remember that mechs with weapon doors have to hold their aim longer to account for the doors opening prior to firing, so making it so having weapon doors only opens you to risk mechs without doors don't share is simple bais.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 13 February 2013 - 08:04 AM.

[Ngamok]

If you think the A1 is terrible, you should look for somebodys post further down claiming his Stalker is better than the Skillcat !

[Monkey Bone]

Indirect nerf to centurions.

[Cache]

Solution = headshot on that enormous cockpit hitbox.

[Adridos]

Just make those dumb-fire rockets real, i.e. make them shoot straight and not onto one specific pin-point place, which is a really dumb idea considreing the missiles would just hit themeslves, anyway.

There, you don't nerf anything other than the serious SRM boat abusing the pinpoint accurracy of a weapon that was designed with massive spread in mind.

Edited by Adridos, 13 February 2013 - 08:03 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Why is the innovation of taking a Mech "intended for LRM play" and turning it into a brawler something people insists requires a punishment?

Half of these Mechs weren't thoroughly playtested to any degree, they were introduced to canon by writers to fit story lines and to tell cool anecdotes in TRO's. You can look through plenty of TRO descriptions or on SARNA and see that the builds often clearly contradict their supposedly intended role (as others have noted in several cases on these forums already) simply by TT rules, let alone in an online game.

Let the roles be developed over time by the players and stop sweating it. You can kill A1's very easily as it is, you just can't afford to make the mistake of getting too close (either through rushing, losing situational awareness or just being a blind fool). Outside of blundering into them or letting them use their teamwork better than you do yours (in which case, you should be on the receiving end) to gain better position, they aren't terribly difficult to deal with.

[Cache]

Adridos, on 13 February 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Just make those dumb-fire rockets real, i.e. make them shoot straight and not onto one specific pin-point place,

http://mwomercs.com/...78#entry1824378

Already in the works.

[Ryokens leap]

Cache, on 13 February 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

Solution = headshot on that enormous cockpit hitbox.

Or shoot out the ammo filled legs, they can't face hug if they are gimped.

[Cache]

Ryokens leap, on 13 February 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

Or shoot out the ammo filled legs, they can't face hug if they are gimped.

That works, but headshots and CT coring are much faster. Faster kill = less damage to you/your team.

[Kousagi]

The bay door thing is, if they are closed that section gets a 10% damage reduction. This applys to Stalker arms, Cent's side torso, and Cat's with missile arms.

Also, Another " this build is OP nerf it!" thread.... Copy and paste for, duel AC20's, Duel Guass, 2-3 UAC's, PPC boats, LRM boats, SRM boats ( wait thats what the cat is, but stalkers can too!), Laser boats, and so on and so on....SRM6 cat is just FOTM and everyone is crying about it... just like the guass cat got no end to the grief, but its still around in its full glory but ya don't see it around much anymore.

[TostitoBandito]

The SRM A1 is only a good mech in PUG games. It is not really viable in 8 mans against good teams (rarely see them in successful tournament/RHOD drops). It is extremely easy to remove the ears if your team can aim and focus fire, and if you position properly and scout you should be able to keep them at range while you do this.

This is a team-based game. Complaining about this mech being too strong when you are standing in the open right in front of it means you have failed at playing as a team.

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Step one is convincing the entire community that the splatcat is a build that needs to be done-away with. Good luck with that, people who are thoroughly in love with the build are extremely vocal and solidly entrenched in their point of view. Someone tried to make a post collecting videos of the splatcat being imbalanced, and it degenerated into a flame war so quickly that the post was modded off to the ether less than two hours after going up.

Step two is convincing the devs that their beloved hardpoint system has some exploitable flaws and needs to be re-examined. This would be just as difficult as step one. Anytime they've been faced with a balance issue that could have been fixed by adjusting hardpoints, or the rules governing hardpoints, they've ignored it and then eventually nerfed it in some weird round-about way (Gauss fragility, ECM vs. streaks, and soon PPCs vs. ECM).

I'm not even choosing a side, just pointing out that debating game balance around here is an exercise in frustration for everyone involved. It's due in no small part to the fact that we can't even agree on what "balance" even is.

[Inviticus]

If you take away the SRM build from the A1, what do you have? A Mech no one will ever play again. I generally have few issues with these guys. I have taken to blowing their ears off or avoiding them until they can be focused. Most PuGs I have been in lately are smart enough to know that A1s should be focused first.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Cache, on 13 February 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

That works, but headshots and CT coring are much faster. Faster kill = less damage to you/your team.

That depends on how you approach the Cat. If you come in from behind, or are more maneuverable than the Cat then you might be better off shooting for the legs, since the legs take damage from any direction. And if they have ammo in the legs an ammo explosion can really cripple them.

It all depends on what is the best avenue of attack for a particular pilot in a particular mech, in a given situation. The best pilots choose the optimal engagement strategy more often than not.

[TostitoBandito]

Yeah I sold my A1 a while back. The SRM build is too easy to counter by good players, and with the removal of screen shake from LRM's there isn't much reason to boat LRM5's anymore. The only Catapult I still own is a C4 for LRM's. When I play a heavy, it is usually a sniper Muromets, which is much more effective and deadly than any of the AC20 or SRM Cat builds people whine about.

Tickdoff Tank, on 13 February 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

That depends on how you approach the Cat. If you come in from behind, or are more maneuverable than the Cat then you might be better off shooting for the legs, since the legs take damage from any direction. And if they have ammo in the legs an ammo explosion can really cripple them.

It all depends on what is the best avenue of attack for a particular pilot in a particular mech, in a given situation. The best pilots choose the optimal engagement strategy more often than not.

I still think you are always better off shooting the ears off on these. Always. They have comparable armor to the legs, are bigger and easier to hit, and you reduce their firepower as you destroy them. We routinely "ear" cats like this in under 10 seconds when focusing them. Then we let them run around with no weapons for a while.