44 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

MadPanda, on 24 March 2013 - 06:37 AM, said:

Every single team game that I've played has had voip default On. That's the only way to do it. There is no reason to argue about it as no sane developer will put it Off by default. As for the fears of someone blasting some crap through their mic, there is always a mute button that is just one click away next to the person. Where exactly the mute button is, well that's up to the UI designes of PGI but there is one and it's easy to use to mute those who are distrubtive.

What are these multiplayer PC games that have the mic on by default?

[Wolf Ender]

I appreciate the spirit of the suggestion to implement VOIP in the game, but I really think that if you've EVER played a team based game of any sort whatsoever, you should already know what voice comms are as well as the value of using them. It is great that PGI wanted to put it into the game, but even if they concentrated on getting C3 working, i seriously doubt it would have any meaningful impact on the meta.

Dev resources would probably be better spent elsewhere to improve stability, improve customer service, or make sure content gets out on time.

if you honestly don't know that TS or Vent will enhance your ability to coordinate with teammates you might as well just shoot yourself because you must have an intelligence level comparable to the gum stuck to the bottom of my shoe. the VAST majority of people are NOT that stupid.

The reason why people don't use comms is because they don't want to or they're too lazy
The reason why people don't join a unit is because they don't want to or they're too lazy

[Vahnn]

Have you ever played Red Orchestra or Red Orchestra 2? WWII shooter, almost a sim, very dedicated to hardcore, realistic, team-oriented play.

VOIP is enabled BY DEFAULT. Or at least it is in RO2, I can't remember for RO1.

And you know what? It's wonderful. It's a beautiful thing. There is generally very little chit-chat. Tons of players use it. And even players who don't talk will often be listening, as evidenced by their text chat responses.

This would help the game tremendously, and anyone who thinks otherwise is a gosh damned fool, plain and simple.

[Nonsense]

ciller, on 24 March 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

This game is NOT meant for the casual gamer. PGI/IGP's efforts to make it so will only hurt them.

Any serious gamer already has and uses vent/teamspeak and is already in a guild making in game VOIP less important then OP claims.

But yeah, in-game VOIP with mute options would be great.

You're talking about "serious gamers" as people who play the game with established sets of online friends. What happens when a random person who is "serious" but doesn't have friends who play MWO picks up the game and wants to play?

They have no good avenues for meeting fellow players...there's no lobby, there's no general chat, there's only the forums and a brief window for typing before and after matches (and the after-match lobby ends automatically before you can "make friends").

Sure, you can drop in on the TS server, but how would a brand new player know about that? The OP is correct, IMO, and you're sort of being blind to the other types of situations outside your own.

[MadPanda]

Belorion, on 24 March 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

What are these multiplayer PC games that have the mic on by default?

Are you trying to be cute here by jumping on the meaning of "default On"? They are push to talk, and if you want an example: HoN.

[StandingInFire]

MadPanda, on 24 March 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

People like you amaze me, or more so that I can't understand how you are thinking. Why are you using some bad case as an argument not to have a system that could help a lot of people? Let's take an example from real life and use your logic against it. Public transportation; some people have their own car so they won't use it, other's don't have money to buy a ticket and some don't live nearby a bus stop, so let's scrap this stupid idea of public transport because some people can't/won't use it. Right? Makes sense to you? I really don't understand your kind....

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed, because the people using the bus or car can still communicate using signals etc, and is a much simpler system.

Using your car analogy, you are saying to better communicate we should put loudspeakers on every car and bus so people can communicative easier, if you don't see the problem caused by this I don't understand how your mind works. Signals are the equivalent of voice commands, simplifying the message and omitting all the noise.

And you say people can just turn it off, then how will it help at all, how is that different from having say a 4 man premade if only 1/2 the team is using it, you don't solve the communication gap.

[Noobzorz]

ciller, on 24 March 2013 - 04:33 AM, said:

This game is NOT meant for the casual gamer. PGI/IGP's efforts to make it so will only hurt them.

Any serious gamer already has and uses vent/teamspeak and is already in a guild making in game VOIP less important then OP claims.

But yeah, in-game VOIP with mute options would be great.

******** on all counts except the last paragraph.

[MadPanda]

StandingInFire, on 24 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed, because the people using the bus or car can still communicate using signals etc, and is a much simpler system.

Using your car analogy, you are saying to better communicate we should put loudspeakers on every car and bus so people can communicative easier, if you don't see the problem caused by this I don't understand how your mind works. Signals are the equivalent of voice commands, simplifying the message and omitting all the noise.

And you say people can just turn it off, then how will it help at all, how is that different from having say a 4 man premade if only 1/2 the team is using it, you don't solve the communication gap.

M8, you went full r-tard. Never go full r-tard. One system is about communication, other is about transportation. Why are you trying to cross them to make some abomination? You don't seem to know how comparisons work.

As for the "doesn't solve everything", no system ever does. If only thing you want is a perfect system then you will always be disappointed, such thing doesn't exist. Doesn't mean we shouldn't use the so called "imperfect" systems. Once again you aren't really using your brain.

[Noobzorz]

It just. . . I just don't. . .

There are not words for how stupid this "KEP DA CASHOOALS OUT A HERRR" attitude is (you will noticed I typed it in broken English to imply anyone who thinks that way is a bonafide *****; and if you're reading this, you are).

What is casual about StarCraft? What is casual about LoL? What is casual about StarCraft 2? I'd argue (and actually insist, in the case of the latter) that the level of technical sophistication to be a competitive player vastly outstrips the level in MWO. If you imported those SC2 competitive players over to MWO and said "learn this" and gave them a month, you'd empty the RHOD leaderboards of their current occupants.

And yet every effort is made to extend the game to casual players and get people into the mix. StarCraft 2 lets you earn ranks and levels and achievements while comp stomping. LoL and DotA both have bots. DotA has in game VOIP that a ton of people use.

It makes no sense. Having a big base of casual players is good for your game. It says that it is fun, for one, and it gives the devs a ton of resources to fine tune important things. Many softcore types may whine on the forums, but if your implication is that casuals will come and the consequence of this is always that they demand the game be noobified and have their wishes granted, you are dead wrong.

Hell, Blizzard has ignored the cries of the casual so hard that it's difficult to imagine how SC2 could be more hardcore.

[Marj]

MWO desperately needs a tutorial. It's far too complex to expect new players to just pick up. Expecting new players to get all the info they need via comms in game is a bit unrealistic, existing players will get sick of answering the same questions over and over again.

I don't get why PGI went into open beta without a tutorial. To still not have one now is crazy. Most people aren't going to search the forums or website for answers.

[StalaggtIKE]

StandingInFire, on 24 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed, because the people using the bus or car can still communicate using signals etc, and is a much simpler system.

Using your car analogy, you are saying to better communicate we should put loudspeakers on every car and bus so people can communicative easier, if you don't see the problem caused by this I don't understand how your mind works. Signals are the equivalent of voice commands, simplifying the message and omitting all the noise.

And you say people can just turn it off, then how will it help at all, how is that different from having say a 4 man premade if only 1/2 the team is using it, you don't solve the communication gap.

...., Wah?



*snicker*

*LOL* HAAAHAHAAHA!
The point has completely eluded you. Game over.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 24 March 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Vahnn]

StandingInFire, on 24 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed, because the people using the bus or car can still communicate using signals etc, and is a much simpler system.

Using your car analogy, you are saying to better communicate we should put loudspeakers on every car and bus so people can communicative easier, if you don't see the problem caused by this I don't understand how your mind works. Signals are the equivalent of voice commands, simplifying the message and omitting all the noise.

And you say people can just turn it off, then how will it help at all, how is that different from having say a 4 man premade if only 1/2 the team is using it, you don't solve the communication gap.

His analogy was perfect, stop being a fool.

The ability to mute individual players will be vital, because there will always be people who talk too much, and turning all the chat off will hamper.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think a better chat system (with a general chat available in mech lab and with custom channels) would be more important. Not everyone wants to use voice chat. Personally, I find it to intrusive most of the time. But you can't even chat in the mech lab, and you certainly don't have much time to chat during a fight. Some text-macroing with shortcuts would be good.

[Zolaz]

What you need community tools to build a community? Wow ... who would have thought that?

[Gaan Cathal]

Barbaric Soul, on 24 March 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

While I'm all for keeping the new blood playing, I can't say I'm in favour of a integrated VOIP. I've played plenty of games with VOIP, and always ended up turning it off for various reasons.

I don't think the suggestion was that you wouldn't be able to disable it.

[megoblocks]

Belorion, on 24 March 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

What are these multiplayer PC games that have the mic on by default?

Left 4 Dead 1 & 2, TF2 are just three off the top of my head that have it integrated and enabled on. Maybe you heard of one of them. I hear they have/had a lot of players.

[D0GMA]

Just a crazy thought. Make in game voip mandatory, and ban third party voip from in game. Oh I know what some of you are thinking of me right now. But think of some of the interesting gaming dynamics and features you could add. Like intercepting enemy transmissions, using radio silence, or using visual signals like flashing your headlight or smoke flares. Your communications could be something you need to protect. Maybe your antenna gets shot off and your team doesn't even know your alive! And who knows what else! I know this is a bit far fetched but as I said, it just a crazy thought.

[StalaggtIKE]

D0GMA, on 24 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Just a crazy thought. Make in game voip mandatory, and ban third party voip from in game. Oh I know what some of you are thinking of me right now. But think of some of the interesting gaming dynamics and features you could add. Like intercepting enemy transmissions, using radio silence, or using visual signals like flashing your headlight or smoke flares. Your communications could be something you need to protect. Maybe your antenna gets shot off and your team doesn't even know your alive! And who knows what else! I know this is a bit far fetched but as I said, it just a crazy thought.

This would be awesome! The issue being there is no way to ensure 3rd party software is not used. OK, truthfully there is, however its a bit out there. We use it in the educational sector. But there wouldn't be a way to confine the player to one computer or device; it could be circumvented by a second computer, cell phone, tablet or ect.

[l33tworks]

StandingInFire, on 24 March 2013 - 07:57 AM, said:

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed, because the people using the bus or car can still communicate using signals etc, and is a much simpler system.

Using your car analogy, you are saying to better communicate we should put loudspeakers on every car and bus so people can communicative easier, if you don't see the problem caused by this I don't understand how your mind works. Signals are the equivalent of voice commands, simplifying the message and omitting all the noise.

And you say people can just turn it off, then how will it help at all, how is that different from having say a 4 man premade if only 1/2 the team is using it, you don't solve the communication gap.

lol??? That's hilarious this guys is for real. His initial argument agaisnt voip along the lines of the blind cant see so TVs shouldn't exist, was funny enough but this is even better.

Belorion, on 24 March 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

It would almost certainly have to be disabled by default. You would have to set it up, enable it, and have it currently turned on to be able to use it. Many computers don't have mics so it isn't even an option to a large portion of the potential player base.

In addition there are players like me who don't want to hear what 90% of the player base want to say.

ETA: Presumably the preset up voice was for X-Box with counter strike. Something like this is a lot more feasible with a console game than it is with a PC game. The benefit of developing for the console is that you only have to develop for a limited set of hardware and configurations. This isn't true for the PC world.

Nope, It was for the PC and enabled by default for the PC. They just introduced via a patch one day around ver 1.3 I think and it worked flawlessly, on a free half life mod mind you.

Counter strike on Xbox? People played that?

[MustrumRidcully]

D0GMA, on 24 March 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Just a crazy thought. Make in game voip mandatory, and ban third party voip from in game. Oh I know what some of you are thinking of me right now. But think of some of the interesting gaming dynamics and features you could add. Like intercepting enemy transmissions, using radio silence, or using visual signals like flashing your headlight or smoke flares. Your communications could be something you need to protect. Maybe your antenna gets shot off and your team doesn't even know your alive! And who knows what else! I know this is a bit far fetched but as I said, it just a crazy thought.

Do you really want a computer game to have the ability to control what software you have running next to it? Because that's what you need if you want if you want to ban 3rd party voip.

While it could theoretically be an interesting element, it's technically not really feasible.