327 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

No they weren't we avoided TDM and played missions in MW4. Literally everyone I knew avoided it and played missions where you had tactics come into play.


If stock mech matches were added into the game people wouldn't have to play that, but if theynever had any intention of playing that mode and understood it will prevent something else from coming into the game they would probably argue against that as well and be well within their rights to do so.
You have no data to prove your made up statistic. Your biased poll with limited sample doesn't count.


There are no results from the poll, at least not any you can use unless it was written on toilet paper.



A = TDM
B = Kill all mechs
C = Capture base
D= Assault

A = B
D = B + C
Ergo
D = A + C

A still doesnt = B, C, or D
A by itself > B+C+D

Your still wrong.

[General Taskeen]

Well I voted yes, but I'd also like to see Terrain Control, from MW:LL, transitioned over into MWO. That is a much better 'capture' mode.

[Teralitha]

Noobzorz, on 27 March 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

[/size]

I have played lots of games. I see someone suggesting that TDM is the top end of competitive play, and then telling me about all their experience, and it really is the dumbest thing I've read on these boards. There aren't words for how incredibly stupid this is. And I wouldn't have said anything, but you had the ******* gall to go and make sure that your post carried the heavy implication that "capping is the noob way to play, let me and my pros play TDM."

There are reasons to argue against TDM, but I'm not. I voted yes for it in the poll. What I take exception to is how insanely insulting and obnoxious your attitude is.

So yes. Give you and your fellows a TDM mode so you can go scrub it up. I'm cool with that. It's fun. I'll scrub it up too if it's fun to play! But "ranked play?"

**** off.

Sorry if I mistook you for one of the trolls. But you were saying things that seemed pretty trollish.

[Mister Blastman]

Noobzorz, on 27 March 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

If MWO takes off and gets a real competitive seen going, you and I and Teralitha will get ******* devoured by the LoL-kiddies and SC2 player equivalents.

Funny that you say that considering I hold titles at the platinum level in Team Fortress 2 and have also held the #1 spot in StarCraft leagues back in the day in addition to all the Mechwarrior titles. I know how modern competitive gaming works all too well.

I don't think this will be the case.

Being an old fart yourself I know you feel that inner energy deep inside and urge to kick those lolkiddies backsides, right?

TDM is essential for proper planetary warfare--that is, unless PGI refuses to allow 3rd Party Leagues to operate their own system. I think this would be a mistake, but we'll see.

Battletech isn't just a game like TF 2 or Quake, it is a Roleplaying Game. Some of these kids might not see it like that but a lot of us older guys do. I also understand completely the odds of MechWarrior becoming an eSport are pretty low. Yeah, MWO is wayyyyyyyy better than Hawken will ever be, but the odds are still low. We're a niche market and have always been.

I'll admit though I would love to have a wider audience in this genre and it take off. I don't want to dumb it down in the process, however.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 27 March 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Mercules]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

A still doesnt = B, C, or D
A by itself > B+C+D

Your still wrong.

What is the objective of TDM?

[Fut]

Jackson Jax Teller, on 24 March 2013 - 08:14 PM, said:

then again hiding already happens. What, noone's seen a guy running of into the corner and shutting down? an the rest of the ppl in the game not wanting to cap cause you get less money?

Actually I've never seen this.
I've seen people run out of combat, usually to try and come back from a different angle - or to cap a base... but I've not once seen a person power down in a hidden corner.

Something tells me this is an old wives' tale of MWO.

[Teralitha]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Poll has left out a choice: "No"

I DO NOT want a game-type that lets a single player prevent the game from ending just by powering down and hiding in some crevasse or running away for 15 minutes. At least in Assault mode, you can cap and end the game if someone is hiding or becomes disconnected and you can't find them.

Granted, I have seen this kind of grievery play out in Assault Games before, where the only living participants are a Lone Assault and a Lone Light, where the Assault just base-camps and the Light refuses to attack... but a DeathMatch Mode WILL NOT END (for a long time) unless you kill everyone on the other team, so if you're a team of 3 Heavy Mechs and the enemy is a single Light, you can't force the game to end by sending 2 to cap and 1 to defend,... your ONLY option is to chase-down the sole Light Mech with your Heavies.

I think the Assault Gametype has it's merits, which is this: Real War is more than killing the enemy; real war has objectives. You can lose wars by killing your enemy's forward combat units at the expense of your Nation's power-grid. Assault makes you remember that there's more going on than just killing those things in front of you, and DeathMatch encourages little more than just "CHARGE!"

PP what you dont seem to understand is that there is a group of players that want that. They crave it. They demand it.

In your scenario, so you have 3 heavies vs a fast light. I can talk about this because Ive been in that situation quite bit...
What happens next is the 3 heavies fan out and box in the light mech, forcing combat. Light gets legged, game over.

Everyone who wants TDM knows this, and we still want it. We like the chase. Of course there will be some griefers, but that is why MWO has anti griefing rules. Griefers exist now, adding in TDM wont change that. All this argueing is pointless.

[Mercules]

Mister Blastman, on 27 March 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

TDM is essential for proper planetary warfare--that is,

Most Battletech campaigns/modules have secondary and primary objectives. In many of them, "Kill all Enemy Mechs" grants only a small reward or isn't listed. In many scanning an objective by being in a certain set of hexes is the primary objective and accomplishing that alone will earn you more points.


Even games like Warhammer and Warhammer 40k have moved away from the "Kill all Enemies" as a primary objective. It might work for many battles but they also allow for winning without killing a single enemy because they understand that battle is not about killing enemies, but accomplishing objectives. Objectives can be killing enemies or controlling a territory or resource, evading an enemy to disrupt his supply chains, and more.

In Battletech lore many battles have been fought with the objective of doing things like damaging or destroying the other sides resources or production ability. In fact some planets trade hands back and forth simply because they have nothing on them of worth so they are not worth posting many troops to. For the most part warfare takes place where you want to capture and hold something or prevent someone else from doing the same. This means the objective is rarely as simple as, "Kill all enemy."

[Joseph Mallan]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Poll results so far reveal that a majority of players would choose to play TDM over other current game modes. Just like we keep telling you devs... alot of players want it. 62%. it just might be worth implementing after all.



Opinion. Not fact, sorry...

Then we have the same answer to your desire of TDM. Its your opinion not fact. I am here to play meaningful scenarios Defeat an enemy, claim salvage, and save the inner sphere from the clans. TDM is for folk just wanting to blow stuff up. have it, if you must but keep it out of the main game. Put it on Solaris where the gladiators rule.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 March 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

In your scenario, so you have 3 heavies vs a fast light. I can talk about this because Ive been in that situation quite bit...
What happens next is the 3 heavies fan out and box in the light mech, forcing combat. Light gets legged, game over.

Good Luck boxing a Light Mech in while you're in the Tourmaline Desert or Alpine Peaks... that's the problem, right there. In order to do that, you have to fan-out very far, and then you risk being solo'd by a Light Mech or lacking the local firepower to stop it from escaping your thin trap.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 27 March 2013 - 10:35 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

Poll has left out a choice: "No"

I DO NOT want a game-type that lets a single player prevent the game from ending just by powering down and hiding in some crevasse or running away for 15 minutes. At least in Assault mode, you can cap and end the game if someone is hiding or becomes disconnected and you can't find them.

Granted, I have seen this kind of grievery play out in Assault Games before, where the only living participants are a Lone Assault and a Lone Light, where the Assault just base-camps and the Light refuses to attack... but a DeathMatch Mode WILL NOT END (for a long time) unless you kill everyone on the other team, so if you're a team of 3 Heavy Mechs and the enemy is a single Light, you can't force the game to end by sending 2 to cap and 1 to defend,... your ONLY option is to chase-down the sole Light Mech with your Heavies.

I think the Assault Gametype has it's merits, which is this: Real War is more than killing the enemy; real war has objectives. You can lose wars by killing your enemy's forward combat units at the expense of your Nation's power-grid. Assault makes you remember that there's more going on than just killing those things in front of you, and DeathMatch encourages little more than just "CHARGE!"

Well ya know, there is a way around this... Have the capture option only become available say after either...

a. x number of minutes into the game

or

b. After x number of mechs have been killed or even only once one team has just a single mech left standing

Rather than having the capture option available from the start. Make it sort of an "Overtime equalizer" option or something.

[Deathlike]

Fut, on 27 March 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Actually I've never seen this.
I've seen people run out of combat, usually to try and come back from a different angle - or to cap a base... but I've not once seen a person power down in a hidden corner.

Something tells me this is an old wives' tale of MWO.

Running away happens. It ends up just being a cap loss to the solo runner. The match gets decided eventually.

Edited by Deathlike, 27 March 2013 - 10:37 AM.

[Mercules]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

Good Luck boxing a Light Mech in while you're in the Tourmaline Desert or Alpine Peaks... that's the problem, right there.

Especially when said players can't seem to keep them off their base in the first place.

[Teralitha]

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

What is the objective of TDM?

That is an ambiguous question. Every game in existence has the same objective. To win.

[Mercules]

Teralitha, on 27 March 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

That is an ambiguous question. Every game in existence has the same objective. To win.

.and how do you accomplish the win?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mister Blastman, on 27 March 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:

Well ya know, there is a way around this... Have the capture option only become available say after either...

a. x number of minutes into the game

or

b. After x number of mechs have been killed or even only once one team has just a single mech left standing

Rather than having the capture option available from the start. Make it sort of an "Overtime equalizer" option or something.

But why do you need a cap-timer if the only way for a match to end early is if an enemy Light force blows straight through the map to your base...? You should still be close enough to defend your base that early into the game, knock-out their Lights, and then win by force... I guess I'm just the kind of guy that doesn't immediately send all my slow forces halfway up the map without knowing where the enemy is.

[Teralitha]

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Most Battletech campaigns/modules have secondary and primary objectives. In many of them, "Kill all Enemy Mechs" grants only a small reward or isn't listed. In many scanning an objective by being in a certain set of hexes is the primary objective and accomplishing that alone will earn you more points.


Even games like Warhammer and Warhammer 40k have moved away from the "Kill all Enemies" as a primary objective. It might work for many battles but they also allow for winning without killing a single enemy because they understand that battle is not about killing enemies, but accomplishing objectives. Objectives can be killing enemies or controlling a territory or resource, evading an enemy to disrupt his supply chains, and more.

In Battletech lore many battles have been fought with the objective of doing things like damaging or destroying the other sides resources or production ability. In fact some planets trade hands back and forth simply because they have nothing on them of worth so they are not worth posting many troops to. For the most part warfare takes place where you want to capture and hold something or prevent someone else from doing the same. This means the objective is rarely as simple as, "Kill all enemy."

Completing secondary objectives for more profit is fine.(they dont end the game) Completing primary objectives without combat is for *******!!!

Assult mode does not have any secondary objectives. It just has 2 primary objectives. One is to destroy all enemies, the other is for *******!!!!!

Mercules, on 27 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

.and how do you accomplish the win?

As defined by the game type.

[M4NTiC0R3X]

- No, I don't want TDM, and you'll just have to wait and see why that is.

[Mister Blastman]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

But why do you need a cap-timer if the only way for a match to end early is if an enemy Light force blows straight through the map to your base...? You should still be close enough to defend your base that early into the game, knock-out their Lights, and then win by force... I guess I'm just the kind of guy that doesn't immediately send all my slow forces halfway up the map without knowing where the enemy is.

Well typically you'd find a base well defended with turrets and other built-in assets, right?

We don't have this yet. In planetary league play it would give the other team a way to grief. Granted, they would be banned from the league in short order--it still would be frustrating.

Having weapons on a base like they do in MW:LL would be a huge benefit. In MW:LL the base defenses won't kill the lights (if they are smart) but they'll at least soften them up a good bit.

Oh, and yes, good teams don't just rush in without scouting first.

[Teralitha]

Prosperity Park, on 27 March 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

But why do you need a cap-timer if the only way for a match to end early is if an enemy Light force blows straight through the map to your base...? You should still be close enough to defend your base that early into the game, knock-out their Lights, and then win by force... I guess I'm just the kind of guy that doesn't immediately send all my slow forces halfway up the map without knowing where the enemy is.

Yea but assault games are the same thing every time. There is no variation. There is the bases and how to get them or defend them. Nothing else. No freedom to do anything else. It gets old. We need more choices.