12 replies to this topic

[Terradoss]

Ladies and gentlemen of the MWO community. I come before you today to express my extreme disappointment. Not just my disappointment, but also my outrage and disgust.

I've been playing MWO for a number of months now and have been enjoying experiencing the different mechs and "role based warfare" that PGI is trying to hard to implement. I am a huge fan of the concept and I give great credit to PGI for their efforts in attempting to both distinguish weight class roles and attempting to maintain a distinct flavour for each chassis type. Kudos guys, this is great work!

Where I am thoroughly, unequivocally and completely unimpressed is in the method used to calculate game scores and as a result, how experience/CBill gains are rewarded.

As I stated, I've been trying out numerous different mechs across all weight classes, but I'm quite partial to piloting light mechs. I find them to have a very high skillcap and the on-the-fly mindset required to successfully pilot them appeals to me greatly. Light mechs, as the current scoring system stands, suffer from an absurd and apparently arbitrary handicap when it comes to producing both experience and CBills.

From what I have been able to gather through careful observation of each of my matches is that the "Match Score" statistic seems to be generated largely as a result of damage inflicted. Or at the very least I am supremely confident in stating that damage inflicted provides the single most significant contribution to ones match score. Far beyond that of anything else.

As a light mech pilot, I personally am capable of inflicting enough damage to produce a reasonable amount of CBill income and experience. Where I DO have a problem is when considering that damage is not typically the expected role of a light mech, nor is it usually the best use of their abilities. We have three other weight classes who are all as capable as, if not more capable than lights in dealing damage. My team does not expect me to fight (usually), they expect me to scout, cap, intercept, detect, flank, protect, distract, harrass......the list goes on. i applaud this expectation on their part because I believe strongly it is what a light mech SHOULD be doing in most circumstances. Unfortunately the vast majority of these activities are only minimally combat based and thus will most tmies produce a very small amount of damage inflicted for the player.

This wouldnt be a problem if acitivities not related to direct combat and damage dealing were weighted with any reasonable significance relative to combat damage. They're not. At all. Sure there are some rewards for things like spotting and cap assists (although this bonus seems random as to when its awarded) and things like saviour kills/assists are also rewarded. These are great things to reward but the scoring weight applied to them is completely insignificant.

In short, to perform the roles I am most suited for as a light mech pilot, I am penalised when it comes to XP/cash rewards. I can make far more money on my light by joining the big boys in a slugfest, than I can ever make in scouting/capping/skimming/doing light mech stuff. The only time this is not true, is when I die in the first minutes of the game, and even then sometimes the damage i have dealt is sufficient to be scored higher than an ENTIRE GAME OF NON-COMBAT ORIENTED ACITIVITIES. This bothers me enormously. It makes me angry. It needs to be fixed. Non-combat activities needs a MASSIVE increase to their scoring weights. Nothing else will suffice. The longer this is left in its current state, the more people are discouraged from playing lighter mech weight classes because of categorically absurd scoring and reward imbalances.

The straw that broke the camel's back for me was a match I played today. It was a conquest tourmaline desert match in which our team was dispatched excepting myself (the only light on our team) who spent the match securing cap points at the request of my team. i was quite effective at this and had secured a consistent four cap points by the time our team was destroyed and was several hundred points in front of the enemy team. Subsequently with five enemy mechs remaining, I spent the remainder of the match evading, hiding, recapping points and being a downright badass in surviving to secure my team a victory. A very close victory. It was god damned hard work and we ended up winning the match by 8 points.

I won that match for my team. I did. They made it possible for me to do so by trimming down the number of enemies left to hunt me down when I was on my own, but I won it. I made the single largest contribution to the victory of our team during that match. This was done without firing a single shot all game. In the time I spent securing cap points, evading the enemy and ultimately winning the game for our team, I inflicted zero damage. I also received zero match score and only the minimum base reward for having participated in a match and lost.

As if I had contributed nothing whatsoever to my team beyond my presence. I object to this. It offends me and upsets me. My extensive efforts, beyond garnering me an immense sense of personal satisfaction at having outplayed my foes, were a complete waste. I could have obtained the exact same reward by joining a match and AFKing. The above example is a statistical outlier as I have only ever had this experience once, but the general trend remains the same. Unless I engage in combat and deal significant damage, I am rewarded with negligable cash/XP.

PGI, I thoroughly enjoy playing MWO, but this is entirely unacceptable. It is not OK in any circumstance to penalise a playstyle that in one game mode, is one of the two stated aims of the match and I quote "Gather 750 resources". This needs addressing and it needs addressing rapidly.

TL;DR - Light mechs are being unfairly disadvantaged by the scoring system and being forced into direct combat roles to produce the equivalent cash/XP rewards of heavier weight classes. Non-damage based activities need HUGE boosts to scoring weight.

[Empedocles]

Understand where you are coming from completely. Had exactly the same situation on Tourmaline desert myself.

[Terradoss]

Empedocles, on 25 March 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Understand where you are coming from completely. Had exactly the same situation on Tourmaline desert myself.

Glad to see I'm not the only one!

[Colby Boucher]

^This.

[Spar]

I personally do not pilot light Mechs, though many that I play with do. What you have outlined is a topic of conversation that often comes up. I see the role of the Light Mech in the same way you do however the vast majority of light pilots will never pilot it in that manner purely due to what you have outlined above.

No reward for doing your job

Conquest matches are designed around capturing points to gain resources to win the match, this rarely happens and the match just degenerates into a brawl followed by chase the last mech.

A game designed around capturing points but then does not reward for capturing said points feels like a lesson in madness to me. Adding an individual capture reward for points captured or assisted in capturing to the conquest match would, in my opinion, assist greatly in returning it to the initial concept of the match type. With that in mind though it could then be open for abuse with conquest matches being filled with swarms of pesky little (cant see me) light mechs.

I feel your pain and would like to see some kind of reward system however its a fine line to tread and difficult to put in without being open to abuse.

[Terradoss]

Spar, on 25 March 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

I personally do not pilot light Mechs, though many that I play with do. What you have outlined is a topic of conversation that often comes up. I see the role of the Light Mech in the same way you do however the vast majority of light pilots will never pilot it in that manner purely due to what you have outlined above.

No reward for doing your job

Conquest matches are designed around capturing points to gain resources to win the match, this rarely happens and the match just degenerates into a brawl followed by chase the last mech.

A game designed around capturing points but then does not reward for capturing said points feels like a lesson in madness to me. Adding an individual capture reward for points captured or assisted in capturing to the conquest match would, in my opinion, assist greatly in returning it to the initial concept of the match type. With that in mind though it could then be open for abuse with conquest matches being filled with swarms of pesky little (cant see me) light mechs.

I feel your pain and would like to see some kind of reward system however its a fine line to tread and difficult to put in without being open to abuse.

I agree with you that balancing rewards for non-combat might be tricky ni some cirucmstances. For example adding points for every cap in a match would be open to cap trading abuse. You could just sit there and move in and out of the cap point in synch with the enemy and rake in rewards endlessly.

There need to be personalised objectives (like spotting/TAG assists, these are a good concept but we need more and they need to be worth more) that directly reflect your contribution that isnt damage. Jamming enemy ECM or forcing an enemy to break target to try and shoot you (difficult to track/designate I grant you) are potential candidates. I'm going to devote some time to coming up with a list of objectives for non-combat related activities that could (should?) be rewarded and the relative weights that each should entail. Perhaps if it catches the eye of someone in a position of clout we might even see some changes. Who knows!

[Gravity Won]

Well put Terradoss!
This is a massive shortcoming in the current points structure. We have no shortage of people who wish to pilot light mechs but the vast majority of those end up in the 3L, not because its inherently more fun but because the game only gives a sizable reward to those who spend their time in the pursuit of dealing damage which as we all know comes far easier to the bird beaked light-mech on steroids than it generally does to the other mechs in its class. I imagine that if the game were to reward the light mechs for performing the roll they are clearly intended to perform that we would see a far more aggressive push on capture points in conquest mode instead of the current tactic of a team rushing towards center field for a brawl (best exemplified by the typical Caustic conquest match) and focusing on capturing points if and when it becomes clear that the match isn't likely to be won by besting the enemy in combat.

Capturing a point should give a reward roughly equal to that of killing a mech and providing a capture assist ought to be worth at least the points one would earn for a kill assist. Under this type of scoring system there would be an even larger incentive to push for the capture of a point than there would be to try for a kill as the point capture would offer an equal reward with a sizable decrease in risk in comparison to slugging it out with the first mech you can put in your crosshairs.

This will in no way cause the combat to be avoided in the long run. The two teams WILL encounter one another as they push to gain control of the majority of capture points, that much is certain. If we want to reward combat accordingly on our conquest maps, how about giving a larger bonus to kills and assists when you have control of more capture points? A kill would net you (Just an example to illustrate the idea) 50 points while that same kill would give two, three or four times the points if your team is in control of an increased number of capture points. Then we have a massive incentive to capture our collective ***** off and a huge pot of gold at the end of the rainbow if your team manages to engage and eliminate enemy mechs while in control of the majority of capture points. Maybe we could even reward the mech who captured a location by giving him 25-50 points for every kill that takes place while his team controls the point he captured? This would give light mechs, and all mechs for that matter a real reason to pursue the capture points as intended.

What other ways can you guys think of that would mix up the light mech scoring mechanic and add some depth to our current match types? I know there must be some fantastic ideas floating around here.

Edited by Gravity Won, 25 March 2013 - 03:44 AM.

[PurpleNinja]

It's a death match.
What do you expect, PTFO, Community Warfare?
Wrong game.

[Lupin]

Yes know the problem of being the only light mech on my team to find me doing most of the capturing, or match maker puts in 2 lights on our team and 4 on the other.
The role of the light mech seems to be getting lost.
Even worse we do not get rewarded for help win a battle when all the Rambo's go off on a conquest match and wonder why they lose.

Larger maps means lights are important along with communication with your scouts, but this is tactics and you will not find that often in random drop game. But maybe some increases in game rewards for scouts doing there job.

[LegoPirate]

being a light mech doesnt excuse you from direct combat.

you cap enough points so youre either even with or ahead of the other team and then you go help fight. why? because your team is fighting 7v8 without you. light mechs in the midst of the enemy team can be a huge advantage for your main brawler force. not to mention you can core just about any mech with 2-4 alphas straight to the back.

i absolutely despise people who pilot lights and then dont engage in combat with heavier mechs. a light vs just about any heavier mech is most of the time an even fight at worst. the only mechs i actually avoid in my JR7-F is splatcats. everything else i do my best to play as distruptive as possible, and if the enemy ignores me that leaves me free to do damage as i please.

the fact that light mechs dont hit as hard simply means that you have to be more precise with your shots.

tldr - stop using your lack of skill as an excuse to avoid combat.

[Windsaw]

You realize that the OP doesn't complain that lights should do no combat, but that the reward system tells you to do ONLY combat and nothing else.

I gave this some thoughts about suggestions:

- First lockon on each enemy mech should be rewarded. (so eight rewards for your team in total)
- First loadout identification on each enemy mech should be rewareded. (so BAP and the module are worth something)
- Spotting assist not just for LRMs that actually hit AND no other has a lock on the target. That is a too big hurdle.
Better reward for holding a target for a certain amount of seconds after a friendly mech shoots a salvo of LRMS.
- Always reward applying a NARC regardless of outcome.
- Reward capping by total percentage capped. Fully on conquest, only in case of success success on assault.

[Terradoss]

LegoPirate, on 25 March 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:

being a light mech doesnt excuse you from direct combat.

you cap enough points so youre either even with or ahead of the other team and then you go help fight. why? because your team is fighting 7v8 without you. light mechs in the midst of the enemy team can be a huge advantage for your main brawler force. not to mention you can core just about any mech with 2-4 alphas straight to the back.

i absolutely despise people who pilot lights and then dont engage in combat with heavier mechs. a light vs just about any heavier mech is most of the time an even fight at worst. the only mechs i actually avoid in my JR7-F is splatcats. everything else i do my best to play as distruptive as possible, and if the enemy ignores me that leaves me free to do damage as i please.

the fact that light mechs dont hit as hard simply means that you have to be more precise with your shots.

tldr - stop using your lack of skill as an excuse to avoid combat.

Your error is in making the assumption that I (we) don't fight at all. This is woefully incorrect. With the system set up as it currently is, I do exactly what you've described here during the majority of matches. I do it very well. This doesn't change the fact that lights being responsible for capping and other activities requires them to be absent for a significant portion of any given fight. This necessary absence dictates that damage output is going to be lower through lack of opportunity.

The above aside, you do nothing to address the point that role based warfare dictates light mechs perform a different role to other weight classes. a dynamic role. Nobody is suggesting that they make a habit out of avoiding combat entirely, only that the aspects of their role that require them to turn their attention elsewhere be rewarded fairly.

Additionally, most lights who avoid combat aren't doing so because they feel incapable or afraid of taking on heavier mechs. This is another flawed assertion. They're doing it because there are other activities the weight class excels at as well.


TL;DR - You've no basis for asserting I or any other light pilot uses "lack of skill" as a reason to avoid combat. Light mechs have a far more dynamic role than you suggest and should be rewarded accordingly.

Edited by Terradoss, 25 March 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Terradoss]

Windsaw, on 25 March 2013 - 05:44 AM, said:

You realize that the OP doesn't complain that lights should do no combat, but that the reward system tells you to do ONLY combat and nothing else.

I gave this some thoughts about suggestions:

- First lockon on each enemy mech should be rewarded. (so eight rewards for your team in total)
- First loadout identification on each enemy mech should be rewareded. (so BAP and the module are worth something)
- Spotting assist not just for LRMs that actually hit AND no other has a lock on the target. That is a too big hurdle.
Better reward for holding a target for a certain amount of seconds after a friendly mech shoots a salvo of LRMS.
- Always reward applying a NARC regardless of outcome.
- Reward capping by total percentage capped. Fully on conquest, only in case of success success on assault.

These are solid suggestions. I particularly like the suggested reward for loadout identifications. Is a good way to make use of an aspect of the game which thus far see's fairly minimal utilisation.


Keep up the good work! Input is appreciated.