188 replies to this topic

[Warlune]

Related to PAX:
Panel Video here
http://mwomercs.com/...13-panel-video/

[Adridos]

Tice Daurus, on 25 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Lyteros has a great idea on this. We could create a forum where player art could be submitted with screen snapshots of the areas. Take it to where people vote on it, and say, I dunno, the more popular the thread is or giving UP/LIKE votes would give it more chance for consideration by the art department to look at perhaps? Just a suggestion, but I'm just trying to help here give the DEV's an idea on how to possibly run this to help out.

I wasn't actually talking about those details.

I was talking about the thread as a whole and if you have a plan to make sure they will have to respond to it no matter what.

[JohnoBurr]

Tice Daurus, on 25 March 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

Lyteros has a great idea on this. We could create a forum where player art could be submitted with screen snapshots of the areas. Take it to where people vote on it, and say, I dunno, the more popular the thread is or giving UP/LIKE votes would give it more chance for consideration by the art department to look at perhaps? Just a suggestion, but I'm just trying to help here give the DEV's an idea on how to possibly run this to help out.

Oh, you mean kind of like this?

http://www.robertssp...ries.com/forum/

There's a section for fan art as well as modding.

Keep in mind though, they're a capable developer and they're accepting community made assets.

Edited by JohnoBurr, 25 March 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

JokerVictor, on 25 March 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

This would be entirely too embarrassing for the prideful lot that is PGI. A couple dudes in their spare time, for free, would create maps that drastically out class these crap offerings we've gotten so far. And by their math, these have cost $1.5 mil so far. Pathetic.

Regardless if this would be embarrassing or not for them, and if this might be a highly bitter pill for them to swallow, it's BETTER that the swallow the pill now than 2-3 years down the road and millions of dollars spent creating a 10-20 maps when they can pull on the fan-user base to help them create 100 maps 2-3 years from now.
Again, I am NOT trying to turn this into a let's bash PGI for bad mistakes thread. I want to use this to get the fans/users here to step up and say "If PGI is willing to do this, I'd volunteer my knowledge and time to help them create a map that could be featured," and to get PGI to answer this and say what they think, what their concerns are, where they see are problems with this, and what we as a fan base can do to help alleviate their fears and help them with ideas and suggestions to get this off the ground and moving forward, IF POSSIBLE.

And with JohnnoBurr's post, if another developer can do this and ask for fan-based help, PGI can do this too. I want to hear what they have to say and see what they think.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 25 March 2013 - 12:50 PM.

[BlueSanta]

This is not a new thought. Counter-Strike players have made probably hundreds of maps for the different versions of the game. Steam even promotes them now, rather than a third-party site having to become involved (FPS Banana). The admin just has to add them to the rotation and the user either has to download them himself/herself or the server auto downloads it to the appropriate folder.

So far PGI has only exploited us for our raw money. Lack of foresight and again, awareness of what other games are doing successfully.

[DaZur]

Tice Daurus, on 25 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

>snip<

Like the idea and I can concur that a lot of community base assets exceed that of the developers work. (I have a lot of experience in this myself with various flightsims)

The problem is when community content get used in a commercial release AND the the author get compensated for the assets (even if it's in magic space bucks) it opens up a whole smelly can'o worms legally as well as creates yet another communal rift when one persons asset is accepted and another's not.

That said... one of the reasons community-created assets are often of higher quality is because of author(s) are driven by different motivators and they also do not have timetables to placate.

Edited by DaZur, 25 March 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[The Cheese]

CE maps are a lot more complex than MW4 maps. They are very easy (if not quick) to create, but they take a lot more time, attention and knowledge to get working efficiently and without any bugs.

I'm not arguing against user generated content (I think it's a great idea), but I don't think it's quite as easy as many people seem to think it is.

Edited by The Cheese, 25 March 2013 - 12:56 PM.

[Warlune]

I think this is a great idea.

[Adridos]

The Cheese, on 25 March 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

I'm not arguing against user generated content (I think it's a great idea), but I don't think it's quite as easy as many people seem to think it is.

Thankfully, there are guys who do and can do it anyway. Like Allfex, altough his map wasn't put to any tests yet.

[Mister Blastman]

I see no reason why PGI shouldn't allow user-made content be put into the game. It will help us thrive and the game can only grow because of it.

[Mazzyplz]

yes but how would you get stuck in a rock then?

it's paving the way for the almighty unstuck module

[Tice Daurus]

Adridos, on 25 March 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Thankfully, there are guys who do and can do it anyway. Like Allfex, altough his map wasn't put to any tests yet.

Well here's the thing. Allfex said that he's a novice at this and there are others out there that have even MORE knowledge than him in creating maps using the CE map software. If that is the case, then wouldn't it be a good idea to have them help create these maps and see if we can get them to help PGI's art department?

And yes, I do understand that there are legal things to consider in taking a map from a fan and such. Heck if it would make it more easier, PGI could say "Hey we can't compensate you guys on the maps, but we can at least give you say a USER Name credit, saying you created the initial map, but once you submit it to us, it's then legally ours and then we can do whatever the heck we want with it afterwards because you are submitting it to us. As long as they can work some type of special legal contractuable setup for submission, then this could get made earier for PGI to pull this off and make this work.

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

yes but how would you get stuck in a rock then?

it's paving the way for the almighty unstuck module

Again, PGI would take over the rights to the map, and then their developers could go over the map with a fine-tooth comb to clear away any bugs from the map art. They, meaning PGI, focus on clearing the bugs, the fans focus on dreaming up the art and submitting the work.

Edited by Tice Daurus, 25 March 2013 - 01:08 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

"We cannot compete with our own customers for the production of content in this environment."

100% True, because normally what actual developers make is super high quality compared to what the community would make and what you guys are making is NOT. SO SO SO MANY - SO MANY THAT IT IS BEYOND COUNTING - games have community mapmaking. It's not a problem with the environment you operate in, it's a problem with THE QUALITY OF WHAT YOU ARE MAKING.

If that's actually the case and they believe that then they need to START HIRING MAPMAKERS FROM THE COMMUNITY.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 25 March 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

Captain Stiffy, on 25 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

"We cannot compete with our own customers for the production of content in this environment."

100% True, because normally what actual developers make is super high quality compared to what the community would make and what you guys are making is NOT.

If that's actually the case and they believe that then they need to START HIRING MAPMAKERS FROM THE COMMUNITY.

Stiffy, the goal is to SAVE PGI money so that they spend less creating maps and taking that money and from there, they can redistribute it to other areas that can be used so that they might be able to hire one extra developer or network coder that can help fix bugs in the game. If we farm out the work to the fans, the fans create the maps, the fans submit the maps for consideration...then PGI can take the maps, have their art department and map creators fine tune the maps to their needs, taking less money, less time, and giving the fans MORE content, which is what we ultimately want to have.

That's the ultimate goal.

[Buffalo Six]

Several years ago, I was part of a group, the 352nd Fighter Group, that set about modding a map/mission set for the IL2-1946 flight sim. The goal was to create a 1:1 scale map of Eastern England and most of France to facilitate the Battle of Britian and later expand that out to include the entire scope of air war over western Europe. It was a huge undertaking because we had to scrape the map tools together from either scratch or from others who had done previous work making Theater maps for IL2. About half way thru this process we were assisted/given the "unoffical/offical" tools (with the blessing from the dev/publisher for IL2 ) by the Swedish guys who made the new maps for 1946. The tools were in russian (1Cgames was/is a Russian publisher) and were a PITA to use.

2 Years and change later this group of ex and current pilots, historians, 3d gurus, grandsons of actual member of the 352nd, and avid warbird buffs produced a photo-realistic, to scale, historically accurate map, down to the taxiways and buildings on all the RAF air bases and the main Luftwaffe bases in France circa 1940. But it took a huge amount of time and was so complex I didnt understand half of it. All I know is that at the end, if you looked at an aerial shot from the game and one from a historic picture of the same air base, they were exactly the same, one in color (game) one in black and white.

Things have most likely changed since I was involved in that project, but I think map making would be a huge undertaking for the community.

[JohnoBurr]

Captain Stiffy, on 25 March 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

"We cannot compete with our own customers for the production of content in this environment."

100% True, because normally what actual developers make is super high quality compared to what the community would make and what you guys are making is NOT. SO SO SO MANY - SO MANY THAT IT IS BEYOND COUNTING - games have community mapmaking. It's not a problem with the environment you operate in, it's a problem with THE QUALITY OF WHAT YOU ARE MAKING.

If that's actually the case and they believe that then they need to START HIRING MAPMAKERS FROM THE COMMUNITY.

You actually think that gaming communities can't make content on par with developers? If so, then you're woefully ignorant.

Edited by JohnoBurr, 25 March 2013 - 01:15 PM.

[Tice Daurus]

JohnoBurr, on 25 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

You actually think that gaming communities can't make content on par with developers? If so, then you're woefully ignorant.

Now now, Johnno...I know you mean well but seriously man, I am doing my utmost to keep this thread from bursting into flames here. This idea has really started to get a bunch of likes here, and I think this is worth the DEV's comments. Let's try to keep civil here people.

[Adridos]

JohnoBurr, on 25 March 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

You actually think that gaming communities can't make content on par with developers? If so, then you're woefully ignorant.

He's not. Reading comprehension and cool head can save you from many embarrasing situations...

Tice, did you think about asking pals over at DHB to come here and "vote" for you? It could certainly help with the noticing issue. Not forcing them, ofc, just making sure they know how they can help it if they want to see you succeed.

Edited by Adridos, 25 March 2013 - 01:21 PM.

[BlueSanta]

Remember too that PGI picked up both Alex and more recently Hayden from the community (you can still view both of their deviantART pages with MW content). So, for them to suddenly draw the line at maps does not make sense. I think they will budge on this with enough push.

[MustrumRidcully]

I believe the smartest thing Cryptic ever did for Startrek Online was greating the Foundry and allow players to create their own missions.

There is a lot of things wrong and that I hate about STO and what it has become, but this is just a great feature to have for a game. Setting up a content creation system for your customers of this magnitude isn't easy. But if you can get it done...

But I am not sure if it is that easy for M:WO. The unfortunate fact about M:WO is - it's PvP only. You can't tell stories in PvP, so it would in the end just be a map editor. THis might limit the usefulness compared to a PvE content generation system.