106 replies to this topic

[Mazzyplz]

2xAC20 jagermech cores the awesome assault mech in 3 shots.

it's a completely broken game mechanic, players can't avoid it since the awesome is slow as molasses

[GorgoHammer]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

2xAC20 jagermech cores the awesome assault mech in 3 shots.

it's a completely broken game mechanic, players can't avoid it since the awesome is slow as molasses

How is this different from my putting 2 AC20s on a Catapult K2 which has been around for months ??

Any pilot who wants to brawl with a dual AC20 enemy pilot is asking for a quick trip to spectate mode.
A smart pilot will engage that enemy at mid to long range, not let the dual AC20 mech get close enough to core the CT.

[Tenzek]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

2xAC20 jagermech cores the awesome assault mech in 3 shots.

it's a completely broken game mechanic, players can't avoid it since the awesome is slow as molasses

You've been around for a while, so I would normally assume you know better than that and are joking.

[Helsbane]

Breaking News!

AC20s are F*****G DANGEROUS!!!

We now return you to your original program....

[Royalewithcheese]

I've got a workaround for this issue.

• Realize that AC40 Jagermechs need to run XLs to be remotely effective.
  
• Pick one of the giant elephant ears.
  
• Shoot the giant elephant ear.
  
• Shoot the giant elephant ear again. If the Jagermech is dead, yay! If not, move on to Step 5.
  
• Shoot the giant elephant ear again.

[Mazzyplz]

cant shoot the ear off in less than 3 shots, i'm cored by then.
even if i shoot off one ear the other can still do 20 dmg and the damage has piled up by then so that i can't win. still cored.


i haven't been getting cored in 3 shots by catapult, any of the last months, i don't know if it's because catapult arms are not moveable. besides they're so wide often you just see one of their canons sticking out of cover, not both (like the jager which is SLIM)

but catapults do miss a lot, and it's not viable to run up to an awesome in a catapult without dying,
in the jagermech it is absolutely a good strategy, running up to me tanking all my shots, i can't move away at any reasonable speed because backing up in the awesome has a top speed of like 40kph.
no matter how i try and hit the cockpit it won't die faster than me.

i'd have to get a lucky headshot (lucky because i always aim for the cockpit and yet i never seem to headshot them, it's a matter of pure luck) just to have a fighting chance, when all they have to do is aim at my general direction.

twisting and weaving only help to delay my death, often i'm the only one in the team to die because they focus me down so much, every time. and i'm not even on the frontlines 85% of the time.

the movable arms of jagermech have broken this balance, cored in 4 seconds

even twisting doesn't help because the CT sticks out the front, can still get cored in 4 seconds from the side.


i am not joking, i am not kidding, balance has broken big time.
if you're gonna call me a troll just because you don't agree or use the ac20 yourself then too bad.
make a different post so you can prove the awesome can't get cored in 4 seconds (you can't)
an assault mech is not supposed to die so quickly.

one of the central axioms of this game is longer than 4 second firefights

jagermech comes out of the cave, i'm around 300 meters from it, and it ALWAYS picks the awesome to shoot first, because he knows i'm slow and he knows 3 shots can do me in.
even around a swarm of other targets, they always pick the awesome because they're not stupid, they play exploiting any imbalances there are

broken, absolutely broken


simply can't and won't play again with an awesome (or any other mech for that matter) until some better balance is archieved in the future. it has sucked the fun out of my games 110%
even when i'm with my team i have a HUGE target painted on my chest and back.

the only way to beat it is not to engage with my team when they engage, and try to snipe it; but then i'm alone and vulnerable to light mechs. plus their ac20's are good enough mid range to make it 50/50 chance i kill it with my ppc's.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 09:40 PM.

[Divine Decoy]

GorgoHammer, on 25 March 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

How is this different from my putting 2 AC20s on a Catapult K2 which has been around for months ??

Any pilot who wants to brawl with a dual AC20 enemy pilot is asking for a quick trip to spectate mode.
A smart pilot will engage that enemy at mid to long range, not let the dual AC20 mech get close enough to core the CT.

Yea, stupid to brawl an AC20 CAT/Jager, but when you keep getting sorry people on your team who 1) Don't "r" their targets so you can get feedback on their loadout, 2) don't say "hey ac20/splat cat back off" or 3) no one scouts/watches their lines (simple military tactics man, form a line not a clump all facing the same way....) then it becomes annoying in anything that isn't a 80 kmh mech that can run....

AC20 no broke, team game play is broken. ECM doesn't help...

[Mazzyplz]

ecm prevents me from knowing, and even if i did, i have absolute 0 chance if i'm the last guy alive or guarding the base or my team split for caps.
or if my team just left me behind because my absolute top speed is 66kph


also:

Quote

Yea, stupid to brawl an AC20 CAT/Jager

often not a choice; getting back to base to prevent a cap, have to stand in the cap, or my team is all waiting to ambush the other team outside the cave,
they come out and 1 jager shoots me until im DEAD disregarding it's own health, because he knows i'm so easy to kill. he'll go down but has 1 guaranteed victim.

so not stupid, just circumstancial.

or what do i do, not go for the cap if a jagermech is on it? let him win the game? give me a break!

stop making up bullcrap excuses

i know the awesome is not a popular mech but that doesn't mean you have to pee on me and call it rain.
enough with the excuses

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 09:50 PM.

[Divine Decoy]

hmmm, a quick match i did realize something wrong here, Jager ac20s can go fast (between 64 to 90 kph) while ac20 cats are always below 64 (due to not fitting XL engines). SO, that in mind, YES the Jager AC20 is unbalanced. When one can CHARGE most ANY stock mech of any size and deal that much damage with nearly full armor.... SICK!! Not the cool kind either, but the annoying, tilt the balance as much as an enemy team with nearly ALL ECM mechs sick...

To this realization (and how EVERYONE runs them more then the old streak/splat cat) does need to be looked into. Make the arms not fit AC20s would solve it all. CASE CLOSED.

[Mazzyplz]

i appreciate you taking the time to look into it instead of dismissing me offhand like everyone else,

recognizing theres a problem is the first step.

i leave it in the hands of the devs now, i ask they test an 8 man vs 8 man of awesomes (cheesiest builds) vs jagermechs (twin ac20) and just test a few matches there, i'd be surprised if it lasts a whole minute in any map.

[Righ]

How the hell is a Jagermech running up on you so quickly that you have no time to react? Where is your team? Where are you? Do you have any weapons that shoot farther than 300m? Consider these things as you play. I can tell by your whining that you're probably one of the first pilots to engage the enemy in a match, and are often leading the charge. You may also be getting caught alone in the open, which is one of the few ways a dual AC/20 'mech thrives.

1.) Stay 600+ meters away from the Jagermech.
2.) Call out it's location and loadout.
3.) Begin crippling the Jagermech
a.) In case you have no idea how to play Mechwarrior, which I assume you don't, I would suggest destroying an arm or a leg.
4.) Continue to keep Jagermech at 600m until destroyed.

Congratulations! You've destroyed some kid pilot that thinks he's clever by stuffing two of the biggest guns he could find onto his 'mech. You're well on your way to becoming a real pilot.

Essentially this is coming down to "I've died to this a lot, please nerf it". Instead of flapping your arms around and soaking the ground with your tears every time someone bests you in combat, think of a way to outdo them. Honest to god, it's not that hard.

Edited by Righ, 25 March 2013 - 10:35 PM.

[SodaFizz]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

2xAC20 jagermech cores the awesome assault mech in 3 shots.

it's a completely broken game mechanic, players can't avoid it since the awesome is slow as molasses

Somebody call the WAHHHHHBULANCE

[Mazzyplz]

very useful suggestions; insults go a long way to keep your jagermechs as they are.

oh and
thanks for the tips about range and getting caught alone, i adressed those issues above.
thanks for taking the time to post your comments, the developers WILL see this, so waste your time as much as you'd like by calling me a crybaby - balance is coming whether you like it or not

Edited by Mazzyplz, 25 March 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[focuspark]

65 ton mech carrying a pair of AC20 generally have sacrificed on armor, usually the legs... where they store their ammo. Aim for the legs or ask your friendly light pilot to do it. I love pwn'ing AC20-Cats in my COM-TDK.

[Divine Decoy]

Righ, on 25 March 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

How the hell is a Jagermech running up on you so quickly that you have no time to react? Where is your team? Where are you? Do you have any weapons that shoot farther than 300m? Consider these things as you play. I can tell by your whining that you're probably one of the first pilots to engage the enemy in a match, and are often leading the charge. You may also be getting caught alone in the open, which is one of the few ways a dual AC/20 'mech thrives.

1.) Stay 600+ meters away from the Jagermech.
2.) Call out it's location and loadout.
3.) Begin crippling the Jagermech
a.) In case you have no idea how to play Mechwarrior, which I assume you don't, I would suggest destroying an arm or a leg.
4.) Continue to keep Jagermech at 600m until destroyed.

Nice try, but lets be realistic. The only other AC20 mech with that firepower moves SLOW (what 50 kph with speed twick mine goes?)

Now, a jager can go close to 90 PRE=speed tweak from ingame battles and mechlab program testing and be effective with as much armor as the Catpult kind.

1.) Stay 600+ meters away from the Jagermech? (CHECK) but when they can catch you in anything that isn't a light (faster then a dragon or any other mech unless you go top tier enegine) it's impossable once they get on to you..... Awesome's aside, other mechs don't stand a chance. PROVEN in the Heavy vs all turney

2.) Call out it's location and loadout. (check) but teams/PUGS don't do that. EVEN as the one doing it, something going 90 kph will kill you and another mech before the dimwits realize what happened... (wait, focus on A.... is that the atlas? noobs >.<) throw in the fact that ppl don't lock targets or do any intel gathering (cuz we hate LRMS, so no points for them, OR I want the scout xp not you....) and it's useless to expect this to happen

3.) Begin crippling the Jagermech (DUH!!) this is standard pratice for any mech, especially if it has no weapons in the CT (atlas-K, awesome stalkers, commandos, etc). BUT like I said, full armor hard to do that. ANOTHER ac20 build could do it quick enough to stop someone from being killed, but then he'd probly die doing it too.... Many times in my 4LL pract at ranges of 600 (cuz those jagers can aim up better then ac20cats, AND can keep you in range) have I died to them as well. AC20cat did no better. Only way to survive an AC20 build that is focusing on you is a) you are a fast hard to hit light, or b: PPC/AC2/LRM[cuz they too weak since nerf to stop a charging mech] with team support (which doesn't happen most the time)


4.) Continue to keep Jagermech at 600m until destroyed. (check) already covered this, that speed makes it hard for anything with standard engine from doing that. I've seen 100+ kph trebs and dragons still get killed running away or trying to dog. JJ?? NO cuz they can aim farther up then AC20Cat builds.... Mix this with the flood of Jagers in PUGS (the Heavy tourny was worse) and you get a mix of AC2 cats pecking at you from those long ranges and THIS isn't even 2 Jagers teaming up, a team would be worse cuz they'd be more coordinated....


SOOO, consider those things in response to your "noob calling answers" first. AWESOME need a boost? Maybe, but I still want 2 of em cuz they could be good. AC20s OP? NO! AC20 builds OP? Only the Jager cuz it has NO flaws compared to the ac20 cat (slow speed, EASY to hit cockpit, SLOW speed, can't aim up or down at all).

If we want balance, make jagermech unable to have AC20s. 6 AC2s is crazy enough, but atleast that fits it's originally long-range role and has ammo/speed issues. I love this game and it's options, but some are unfair (EVERYONE PLAY THIS WAY FOR BEST VICTORY CHANCE), the general ECM only teams and AC20 Jager are 2 of them. runner ups are super nerfed LRMS now, and the old invicible Ravens of.... well since they came out and only now getting better....(BTW, you know ravens were OPed when they replaced the old OPed jenners )

Edited by Divine Decoy, 25 March 2013 - 11:41 PM.

[Divine Decoy]

focuspark, on 25 March 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

65 ton mech carrying a pair of AC20 generally have sacrificed on armor, usually the legs... where they store their ammo. Aim for the legs or ask your friendly light pilot to do it. I love pwn'ing AC20-Cats in my COM-TDK.

lol yes a mere 57 armor in the legs is a weakness. check this simple build that ALL jagers can do, and you NEVER know which one has them (unlike spotting an AC20 cat. EVERYONE: "OH NO, its s K2 kill it!!!"... K2: "wait guys, i swear i'm a PPC/4LL build. No ac20s or Gauss on me!!")

http://JM6-S - AC20 Jag example 1

Edited by Divine Decoy, 25 March 2013 - 11:44 PM.

[Ralgas]

Has anyone aggreeing with this actually played 1? An awesome with any sort of decent loadout can 2 shot the jagger with hardpoints to spare and from further away.... And an xl for speed? The side torsos on those things evaporate quiker than alcahol at a frat party. Noone in his right mind is going to get into brawl distance using one.
Edit: oh yeah, torso twist is garbage on them for defense as well due to arm design

The only advantage a jagger gets over the k2 is the higher firing postion and verticle aiming range, enabling better jumpless poptarting over hills

Edited by Ralgas, 26 March 2013 - 12:16 AM.

[focuspark]

Divine Decoy, on 25 March 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

lol yes a mere 57 armor in the legs is a weakness. check this simple build that ALL jagers can do, and you NEVER know which one has them (unlike spotting an AC20 cat. EVERYONE: "OH NO, its s K2 kill it!!!"... K2: "wait guys, i swear i'm a PPC/4LL build. No ac20s or Gauss on me!!")

http://JM6-S - AC20 Jag example 1

Man that's a light mech's wet dream to hunt.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

Mazzyplz, on 25 March 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

2xAC20 jagermech cores the awesome assault mech in 3 shots.

it's a completely broken game mechanic, players can't avoid it since the awesome is slow as molasses

Lets be clear...

You are in an 80-ton assault mech with a great torso twist radius and speed with big shield arms, but you are powerless to stop a smaller 65-ton mech with large side-torso sections, XL engine, and no shield arms from coring out your CT in 3 shots?

Edited by CG Oglethorpe Kerensky, 26 March 2013 - 04:28 AM.

[ArchMage Sparrowhawk]

PGI will eventually have to address the cheese-build issue, or ignore it. Continue to ignore it, I think ends with entropy.

Not even focusing on this mech in particular, but all the balance and unrealistic mega-builds as well. The penalty just isn't there in the gameplay for some of the balance and builds people have come up with as a reult to the balance loopholes.

Edited by ArchMage Sparrowhawk, 26 March 2013 - 04:55 AM.