162 replies to this topic

[Dishevel]

Syllogy, on 26 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Actually, it is a Beta.

Here is the Official Milestone Designation of Beta:

The Beta Development Phase generally begins when the software is feature complete.

So ...
We are still in Alpha then.

[DragonsFire]

Part of that expectation of 'results' is that you will encounter issues, that is the nature of the thing. Part of the responsibility on everyone involved in this beta is to provide feedback on these issues. By positing that this product isn't beta, you're showing the mindset that this is a final and released product, and feedback is not needed or that issues are known about and being worked on. That is extremely counter productive to the process. If you crash to desktop, grab your crash dump and send it in. If you get stuck in the map, record it, try and get stuck there again, and send it in. There are so many here that feel that this is just a game and that their 'playtime' experience should be flawless and don't even bother troubleshooting anything at all.

As a developer, you can't troubleshoot and correct issues you don't have information about in a vacuum. You need tangible data and feedback in order to make the correction.

[MrPenguin]

Shumabot, on 26 March 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

No.

This isn't kindergarten. Saying "no" when presented with facts that prove you wrong doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

Edited by MrPenguin, 26 March 2013 - 09:27 AM.

[Dishevel]

MrPenguin, on 26 March 2013 - 09:26 AM, said:

This isn't kindergarten. Saying "no" when presented with facts that prove you wrong doesn't change the fact that you're wrong.

I know you are, but what am I?

[mania3c]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yes, I consider those games releases as well. Just because an industry, or segments of said industry, has found a way to get people to buy incomplete products doesn't mean I'm giving them a pass on it.

"So you can buy our X43 experimental vacuum cleaner now, and you'll be paying 20% less than whoever buys it at an unspecified time in the future when we decide to bring this vacuum out of the testing phase and into the market. I mean, um, the market that is clearly different from your ability to purchase it right now. Oh, just so you know, it only works on half of the planned surfaces, the reverse mode violently ejects the contents of the device almost instantaneously, and every other week we update its software and it sucks even harder than usual (get it? sucks?! trololol) for unspecified periods of time, but we also may or may not be adding a new feature during this time period (for example, we may enable the self-propulsion mode for a week. And that may be accidental). Oh, also, depending on what kind of funding and resources we get from the people who pay to test our incomplete product, we may never get the funding or results we need to release it (Please don't realize that you paid to test a broken product for the promise of a future discount that will never actually exist, and very likely be near irrelevant due to inflation anyhow)."

Guess I'm not as thirsty for the kool-aid as some are here. OH YEAH!

So what are other options Mr. Funder?

We all want epic games..these sort of old school epic games...not modern Call of Duty epic games...Development is expansive as hell..

You would like to hear "Sorry guys, we would love to make epic games but we just don't have money..we just can't sold our houses and daughters to be able to produce it"?..of course..we would cry "please, do it..do it..we mechwarrior community will supports you"

or they could somehow force EA or Activision to give them money for it.. but of course.. we would hate them because..you know..they joined with evil..

So ..what next? Ah ..yes..crowd-funding.. We are living in weird world, where Sid Meier is praised as god, because he told us, he are working on best game EVAH!..showed us pre-visualization on who knows which engine, promised just about everything..didn't show nothing..and it's okey people gave him already few millions ..because..you know..he IS THE GOD!! it just has to be true..but PGI are band of faktards, because they launched open Beta..you know..unfinished sate of the game, allow us to test and see everything what they have done, they are telling us their next steps and also ask for support from the community..because they really don't have any giant covering their back..but they want have a epic mechwarrior game.. yea yea...they are greedy ********...because they are giving us in-game benefits for supporting development of the game.. OPEN development of the game..where we already can affect..and affected course of the development...these ********..we have to hate them..

In fact..at this stage..this is basically crowd funding, where everyone can see, how far they are already..and what else is missing. Yet they are bashed because of this transparency..yet...kick-starter projects are praised to the skies without even seeing anything and have to wait years to see, if game will be at least released ...Weird world ..weird world indeed..

Edited by mania3c, 26 March 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[MrPenguin]

Dishevel, on 26 March 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

I know you are, but what am I?

Forum name: Dishevel
Name origin: Foreign - Non-human

You're obviously a gremlin.

Edited by MrPenguin, 26 March 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[Aesthetech]

MrPenguin, on 26 March 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Oh my god, you posted a Dilbert comedy comic. That proves so much...
Whats next? You're going to post an onion article?

Someone apparently doesn't understand the purpose of satire.

"Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, and society itself, into improvement. Although satire is usually meant to be funny, its greater purpose is often constructive social criticism, using wit as a weapon." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire)

The point is that, despite the nerdraging MW/BT fanboys out there among us (self included), this is a weak product that was rushed to release and is being called a beta to hide its failures more than as any sort of developmental state at this point. Objectively speaking, Hawken is a much better put together game at this point with a more communicative dev team, even though I personally am not a fan of Hawken and have zero desire to play it over this.

Edit: Copy pasting from wikipedia onto here is epic fail, apparently.

Edited by Aposiopesis, 26 March 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Ok, I'm going to give this thread one serious answer, despite the fact that it doesn't deserve one, as the topic is so hackneyed that it's very premise deserves only mockage and contempt.

Here is why the game is still Beta.

<50% advertised content. Do we have a persistent community warfare going on? Do we have dozens of mechs? A wide variety of maps?

This game wasn't sold to you as "Multi-player FPS set in the Mechwarrior Universe", then a laundry list of features that would be added as "Expansions". It was sold as the whole package, of which, they're not even close to finishing.

This isn't like Battle Pirates where it's been in BETA for over 2 years just to avoid litigation, this game is far from complete... ergo (Latin) BETA (Greek)

[Child3k]

Syllogy, on 26 March 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

Actually, it is a Beta.

Here is the Official Milestone Designation of Beta:

The Beta Development Phase generally begins when the software is feature complete. [...]

I don't really care how PGIs calls the game and how they define their milestones. What you posted is the general definition of a beta phase or version.

But do you really want to tell us that MWO is feature complete?

Edited by Child3k, 26 March 2013 - 09:32 AM.

[Vasces Diablo]

The issue is that we are trying to apply a development term from a development methodology that we're not using. In the old model it was: initial build, alpha, beta, publish.

As crowd funding and free to play become the norm, development becomes more of an Agile methodology as opposed to Waterfall (even calling it Agile methodology isn't exactly accurate). The public is given access to a game that is in a playable build state, but not conceptually complete. It's had aspects of beta, but in some ways is still in an initial design phase.

This is going to take the gaming community a little time to get used to.

So I agree, we are not in "Beta" (a term I feel has little meaning here). We are in some as of yet un-named phase that isn't full publish either.

Edit: phone auto correct issues.

Edited by Vasces Diablo, 26 March 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Many of us have been saying this for a while.

Just because you splash "beta" on a game, doesn't make it Beta. Their crutch is failing and they can't fall back on it much longer.

If Beta is still attached to this title when the Clans arrive...well..that will be a day of lols.

Child3k, on 26 March 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

I don't really care how PGIs calls the game and how they define their milestones. What you posted is the general definition of a beta phase or version.

But do you really want to tell us that MWO is feature complete?

They said they woulld launch the game with a minimum viable product. This is a minimum viable product. With all the people dumping money into the game, we should be able to agree that it's past beta and is release.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

This is something I feel that the game is long due to get past. It is not a Beta. It has not been a Beta for months.

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

[Tennex]

DragonsFire, on 26 March 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Part of that expectation of 'results' is that you will encounter issues, that is the nature of the thing. Part of the responsibility on everyone involved in this beta is to provide feedback on these issues.

Just because its a released game, doesn't mean there won't be a constant flow of content and fixes. Thats the whole idea of F2P. Is that they sustain themselves by constantly releasing content and having people pay them. Its exactly what is happening right now.

This isn't a box game, where after release from beta, no more work is done on it.

By calling it a Beta you are giving the Devs an excuse to release beta level material. Ever since going "open beta" the content patches and releases have gotten much much better. less buggy higher quality etc etc. and that is because even the Devs themselves don't use the "its beta" excuse.

I would like to see patches be of higher quality. At release level quality. not beta level quality.

Edited by Tennex, 26 March 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

mwhighlander, on 26 March 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Ok, keep telling yourself that.

Another person who believes what they are told without question.

Not surprising.

"But the SIGN and insignia for MWO SAYS BETA! It must be TRUE!"

[Jetfire]

It is not simply incomplete, it is inadequate. Anyone paying money now is effectively pre-ordering content with the option to use it during game development for testing purposes. Steam is now offering the same type of thing.

It is a BETA because it is not even close to considerable as a complete game. It is basically an engine with some content until CW and Lobby are introduced which will likely coincide with Launch.

[Aesthetech]

Roadbeer, on 26 March 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

This game wasn't sold to you as "Multi-player FPS set in the Mechwarrior Universe", then a laundry list of features that would be added as "Expansions". It was sold as the whole package, of which, they're not even close to finishing.

But do you have any legal recourse if development for the game is dropped (due to either funding or technical issues) before those promised features are ever implemented? Are you entitled for a refund for a game you bought many months ago because the developer never patched it to the point that it was said it would be? In fact, how would such a hypothetical case be argued in court? We are walking on very interesting ground.

(Note: I have no intent or desire regarding the above)

[Lukoi Banacek]

Aposiopesis, on 26 March 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

Your opinion is duly noted.

Doesn't change anything however. Splitting hairs wins you nothing at this stage really. Just what it is. PGI isn't going to waste time debating the finer points or semantics with folks such as yourself and enough of the playerbase isn't concerned enough to rise up in some form of revolt, so........appreciate the article mate. See you on the battlefield.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Jetfire, on 26 March 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

It is not simply incomplete, it is inadequate. Anyone paying money now is effectively pre-ordering content with the option to use it during game development for testing purposes. Steam is now offering the same type of thing.

It is a BETA because it is not even close to considerable as a complete game. It is basically an engine with some content until CW and Lobby are introduced which will likely coincide with Launch.

We all know how they treat people who are "pre ordering" or supporting through a founders program. ie. Ingoring them and attempt to move onto other gamer demographics to propr up the glass house.

[Aesthetech]

Tennex, on 26 March 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Just because its a released game, doesn't mean there won't be a constant flow of content and fixes. Thats the whole idea of F2P. Is that they sustain themselves by constantly releasing content and having people pay them. Its exactly what is happening right now.

This isn't a box game, where after release from beta, no more work is done on it.

By calling it a Beta you are giving the Devs an excuse to release beta level material. Ever since going "open beta" the content patches and releases have gotten much much better. less buggy higher quality etc etc. and that is because even the Devs themselves don't use the "its beta" excuse.

I would like to see patches be of higher quality. At release level quality. not beta level quality.

This guy gets it.

[Jetfire]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 March 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

They said they woulld launch the game with a minimum viable product. This is a minimum viable product. With all the people dumping money into the game, we should be able to agree that it's past beta and is release.

Not even remotely viable, if production stopped today the game would be dead in a few months. Everyone who is paying is paying on the promise of what is to come, not what is in it now.