43 replies to this topic

[Troggy]

To some extent this is true. However, the convergence situation applies to all mechs (albeit very much so non-equally), that makes it much harder to define a 'cheese-limit,' as opposed to the other situations where only a handful of mechs took advantage of broken, or inadequate design mechanisms.

For example, a 3LL Dragon (or even a 2 ER-PPC Dragon) is definitely not cheese (it's not really even that good), but it is certainly dependant on convergence.

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Ryan

Master Q, on 23 July 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Convergence was supposed to be the fix that prevented massed pinpoint damage at stupidly distant ranges and prevented things like the AC40 Jagers from being ridiculous. Sure, you could fire two AC20s, but you'd be most likely to have one hit target and the other hit a different panel.

So at the moment, the insane pinpoint boats are - by this definition - "cheese." Or at very least they are exploiting a mechanic that the developers themselves have admitted is broken in the engine.

[Master Q]

Troggy, on 23 July 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

To some extent this is true. However, the convergence situation applies to all mechs (albeit very much so non-equally), that makes it much harder to define a 'cheese-limit,' as opposed to the other situations where only a handful of mechs took advantage of broken, or inadequate design mechanisms.

For example, a 3LL Dragon (or even a 2 ER-PPC Dragon) is definitely not cheese (it's not really even that good), but it is certainly dependant on convergence.

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Ryan

Not really.

A 3LL dragon may have "convergence" but it spreads its damage.

Unless you are faced off against a shutdown 'mech or a stopped assault mech, you're hitting multiple panels (and oftentimes even then you are, if you yourself are still moving at strafe).

That is the key issue to the current meta situation, the lack of damage-spreading in the high-alpha builds. Another problem with convergence is the difference in acquisition times for longer ranged weapons.

Large or ER Large lasers have to be held on target and wobble.

LRMs have to be exposed to LOS, or have someone spotting, to be able to fire. All that time exposed to LOS, their torso is exposed.

The pinpoint weapons on the other hand, go right where they are instantly AND allow for instant turning around or falling back behind cover to not expose the torso except for snap shots. With a proper convergence mechanic, a high alpha (let's take twin-gauss Jager for instance) should have to hold its targeting in place roughly as long as a LRM target lock takes in order to get convergence to settle, making the two more equivalent at range, OR ELSE fire early but know that they will not do converged damage.

[Training Instructor]

I'm sorry, but the Raven 3L caused way more hate than any other single mech in this game, and it caused it for almost five months. Nothing else lasted even close to that long as a broken mechanic.

From the day ECM came out and the first pilot realized he could put two streaks and three medium lasers on it and kill every other mech in the game, its use multiplied like a virus. People tried desperately to play other variants, and found that literally the only thing they could fight it with was an ecm commando with three streaks, and that was only done by simply out piloting the raven to dodge his med lasers. Jenners were virtually extinct within weeks, and remained so for months. People who liked lights began playing Cicadas because before matchmaking, the Cicada didn't grant the other team a Raven 3L, it would grant them another medium.

Literally 8 people on a team would focus on killing the Raven 3L, not just because it was annoying like a spider can be, but because it was a lethal mech that was extremely difficult to kill and ECM was extremely overpowered for a very long time. There were a lot of Atlas DDC pilots running 3xSSRM2 not to hit other assaults, but to kill Raven 3Ls.

People have short memories, but the Raven 3L caused more threads/grief/frustration/rage than any other variant has managed to so far during open beta. I can't comment on closed beta, because sexual tyrannosauruses like myself weren't granted access.

[Outlaw]

Yeah couple that with the wonky hitboxes as well as the atrocious hit detection; and it felt like you were trying to kill a pair of atlases as opposed to a 35 ton machine.

Though i will say im greatful for the new heat changes because the 6 PPC/ERPPC stalkers being able to alpha with no consequence but shutting down was starting to border on abusing the game mechanics.

Edited by Outlaw, 23 July 2013 - 12:31 PM.