11 replies to this topic

[Side Step]

Autocannons in MWO are based on tabletop(TT) rules. In TT less shots are required in the span of one game. This leads to AC loadouts in MWO requiring more tons of ammo than in TT.

A simple solution would be to increase ammo per ton for AC's.

Edited by Side Step, 27 March 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[MadPanda]

We are already used to the ammo count. Increase at this point would make AC's feel overpowered.

[Side Step]

MadPanda, on 27 March 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

We are already used to the ammo count. Increase at this point would make AC's feel overpowered.

I feel they are currently underpowered, and I don't think I'm alone. Others have suggested to change AC's in other ways but are usually met with arguments that they are balanced in TT, and by extension is balanced in MWO. I am not opposed to that argument. All I say is that ammo count is balanced to a shorter game in TT, so in MWO we need more ammo per ton to counteract the longer duration of the game.

Feel free to vote no in the poll of course.

[Corvus Antaka]

No wai. Its already hard to run out of ammo. Part of the point is that running out of ammo is a drawback.

[Side Step]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 March 2013 - 11:53 AM, said:

No wai. Its already hard to run out of ammo. Part of the point is that running out of ammo is a drawback.

One of the drawbacks. Another is weight. Another again for rapid firing AC's is that you have to keep aiming at the enemy, so you cannot torso twist and shield with arms while laying down the fire. Then there is the fact that leading with AC's is harder than holding a laser on a moving target.

Some of AC's pros are low heat and long range. Focused high damage for high caliber AC's should have been a pro, but lasers can do this equally well since we can aim where we want.

I am sure I have missed some pros and cons, but those are the ones I can think of from the top of my head, and I just feel AC's got the least benefit from the transition from dice rolling to free aiming.


This suggestion will not break canon, but will help AC's just a little bit. You will still be running out of ammo, cause you will just bring less tons of it with you; leaving room for another heat sink, a C.A.S.E. or maybe an AMS.

Edited by Side Step, 27 March 2013 - 12:07 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

unfortunately sidestep itll also mean that people who dont take those extra systems will take even more ammo and never run out. my jaggermech runs 8 tons of uac5 ammo to feek 2 uac 5, and i find that this gives me enough ammo while still risking a run out. if i got more ammo, I really just take the same tonnage of ammo and suddenly never run out.

[Side Step]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 27 March 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

unfortunately sidestep itll also mean that people who dont take those extra systems will take even more ammo and never run out. my jaggermech runs 8 tons of uac5 ammo to feek 2 uac 5, and i find that this gives me enough ammo while still risking a run out. if i got more ammo, I really just take the same tonnage of ammo and suddenly never run out.

Sure, that's a choice that is open to you, just as laser builds are allowed to take enough heat sinks to prevent any kind of overheating, even though that it could have been better to have a slightly more hot build with more alpha potential.

It's fine that you disagree with me. I expect many will. I think it's a shame you need to invest 8 ton ammo for your two UAC/5 though. You deserve some other modules in place of a few of those tons imo.

When I run AC builds, I find that I always risk running out of ammo no matter how much I bring with me. The only difference is that if I have more, I can take riskier shots, while when I have less, I only fire when I know it'll connect.

[DeadlyNerd]

MadPanda, on 27 March 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

We are already used to the ammo count. Increase at this point would make AC's feel overpowered.

They wont become overpowered, they'll just become more efficient. Doesn't necessarily mean OP.

Also, with the current, way higher than in BT rules, rate of fire, higher ammo count could cause new builds to appear.

[SgtKinCaiD]

Important fact : we are currently playing in 8vs8 thus we need less ammo but when 12vs12 will be live, it's a different story.

[Karl Streiger]

No
Aammunition of TT is based on spreading damage.
In MWO spread is only dependen on how good your aim is...or how bad.
You aim bad...double armor is a problem...you aim well double armor is no problem - not even on a Atlas...

[Side Step]

SgtKinCaiD, on 28 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

Important fact : we are currently playing in 8vs8 thus we need less ammo but when 12vs12 will be live, it's a different story.

Hmmm, is that right? Got any examples of other games where this shows to be the case? I'd think it would equalize seeing as you have 4 more mechs with their own ammo to counteract the 4 additional targets.

The simplest examples I can think of are first person shooters. (please don't shoot me for bringing up fps'es) I can't think of any game where you get more ammo the bigger the teams.

Edited by Side Step, 28 March 2013 - 05:55 AM.

[Bobzilla]

Ac's do double DPS than most weapons and have a longer range. Their weight and slots could be considered a balancing factor except for they produce less heat, so if you neutralize heat with HS (if not neutral you can't take advantage of full DPS making the weapon with higher heat do less damage) they start to actually weight less and take less slots with ammo. So really their only single drawback is ammo.

Aiming can't be considered as ballistics do all their damage to one spot, meaning you only need to aim once for a split second. Lasers need to be aimed and maintained for a period of time, meaning you not only have to aim just like the ballistics, but you have to aim longer and are at a higher chance of spreading the damage and have less time to twist to shield with arms. So really its easier to do pinpoint damage with ballistics, but you do have to lead a moving target. You can get good at leading targets, where as you can't make your laser fire all its damage at once so i feel their aim equally.

Besides ballistics being superior in DPS, range, heat they also have knock effects.



Also i think they already doubled the ammo per ton from TT.