148 replies to this topic

[Skadi]

HRR Insanity, on 30 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

It can be compensated for if designed and implemented well. Especially since CoF would only apply to GROUPS of weapons. Single weapons would still be pinpoint accurate (as long as they were not fired in quick succession, ~0.5 sec between shots to let the CoF evaporate).

So, your choices are:

- Single fire a weapon with pinpoint precision with time enough to let the next shot be pinpoint accurate as well.
- Group fire weapons or fire lots of weapons rapidly and be subject to weapon spread with cone of fire determined in part by heat, # of weapons, and movement.

If you always want pinpoint accurate shots, fire one weapon at a time.

If you want the potential advantage to firing multiple weapons simultaneously to increase DPS, then you are subject to weapon spread as noted.

If you don't want to risk weapon spread, build your 'Mech to rely on single big weapons fired carefully.

No one is affected by the cone of fire unless they CHOOSE to be.

This is balanced and allows individual weapons to be strong vs. armor without being unbalanced in groups.

It's the only way to fix the system.

Im assuming you left out lasers from that group rule... literaly no reason that a CoF would be added to a laser since they are fixed into the body of the mech and they wouldn't refract in random directions when fired...

[KingCobra]

After reading through this topic again I still see the need of 2 types of gameplay #1 involves balanced stock/TT type mechs with a first person view that battles can range between 5min-30min with balanced weapons to armor ratios. The #2 option would be a open custom first or 3rd view with little regard to balance just build it and bring it. Which is what we have now in a big FFA format. PGI thinks they can lump it all into one format fits all approach and its not working. In fact they have made a simple mistake in over complicating the whole game as far as balance. They would be better off working on content and improving bugs already present.

[Rigiroth]

HRR Insanity, on 30 March 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

It can be compensated for if designed and implemented well. Especially since CoF would only apply to GROUPS of weapons. Single weapons would still be pinpoint accurate (as long as they were not fired in quick succession, ~0.5 sec between shots to let the CoF evaporate).

So, your choices are:

- Single fire a weapon with pinpoint precision with time enough to let the next shot be pinpoint accurate as well.
- Group fire weapons or fire lots of weapons rapidly and be subject to weapon spread with cone of fire determined in part by heat, # of weapons, and movement.

If you always want pinpoint accurate shots, fire one weapon at a time.

If you want the potential advantage to firing multiple weapons simultaneously to increase DPS, then you are subject to weapon spread as noted.

If you don't want to risk weapon spread, build your 'Mech to rely on single big weapons fired carefully.

No one is affected by the cone of fire unless they CHOOSE to be.

This is balanced and allows individual weapons to be strong vs. armor without being unbalanced in groups.

It's the only way to fix the system.

I actually quite like that idea. Would do wonders to put certain cheese builds to bed. You wouldn't be susceptible to a 6 PPC alpha unless you exposed your mech close enough for the CoF to not work. +1

[HRR Insanity]

Skadi, on 30 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Im assuming you left out lasers from that group rule... literaly no reason that a CoF would be added to a laser since they are fixed into the body of the mech and they wouldn't refract in random directions when fired...

Lasers are included. All weapons are included. It doesn't matter what the explanation is. It's a game balance issue. Grouped fire breaks the game. This fixes it.


But, if you must have a 'reason', one possible explanation could be that the ability to have pinpoint precision is LosTech in the BattleTech universe.

Quote

The Targeting Computer was introduced by Clan Mongoose in 2860.^[1] Targeting Computers are sophisticated pieces of electronics that, unlike normal targeting systems, physically help MechWarriors target their opponents. Recoil compensators and gyroscopic stabilizers are used to prevent normal weapon drift from factors such as recoil and movement while the computer accounts for atmospheric and other conditions to present an accurate "lead" on the target. This allows for more surgical precision of weapons fire, especially with naturally accurate systems, allowing for the user to hit specific parts on the target vehicle. The Inner Sphere finally caught up to Clan technology with the Federated Suns' development of their own targeting computer in 3062.

Edited by HRR Insanity, 30 March 2013 - 08:52 PM.

[Steambuddy]

totally disagree to the OP. after nearly 30 years of gaming (i'm 41), slow combat is what sets this game apart from the o so many fast FPS games out there. i played paintball myself, you cannot compare it, sorry...

a single assault flanking the enemy ? not a good tactic in mwo. 2-3 mechs flanking, much better...

My main is a DDC and i play PUG only with a few rare exceptions. My K/D is around 4.5.

If i get in a solo flanking position, i will wait until the enemy engages, sneak up and kill the nearest or most damaged one and try to get back into cover. I get away with this a lot of times...

imho the time to take a mech down is ok. You can do a lot to last longer. Mostly the bad players go down fast. They stand still, shutdown multiple times, ignore incoming fire, run into the open, can't handle a fast circling enemy, choose bad spots, and so on.

dunno, but most games half the players get less then 200 damage, sometimes even worse. PGI should start to show K/D or ELO rating because i bet most complainers just don't know much about the game...






so give PGI a break, they do a darn good job imho...

[MustrumRidcully]

Skadi, on 30 March 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

Im assuming you left out lasers from that group rule... literaly no reason that a CoF would be added to a laser since they are fixed into the body of the mech and they wouldn't refract in random directions when fired...

But why would they converge on a variable point, either?

I think the best non-random system would be to have all weapons a fixed convergence point (set in the mech lab), or have no convergence at all. (Note: Arms would still need to converge, but all weapons installed in the arms still fire parallel to each other).

But I think hoping that convergence will be changed or replaced is pointless, and any fears in that direction are unwarranted. Not gonna happen.

Maybe we can get them to change armour distribution so that CT gets more of that armour doubling than arms or legs. But meh, very probably not even that will happen. It's all idle theorycrafting we do here, I don't believe in any significant changes happening.

Maybe we're lucky they'll rework the heat scale...

Nah, probably not either.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 31 March 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Skadi]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 March 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

But why would they converge on a variable point, either?

I think the best non-random system would be to have all weapons a fixed convergence point (set in the mech lab), or have no convergence at all. (Note: Arms would still need to converge, but all weapons installed in the arms still fire parallel to each other).

But I think hoping that convergence will be changed or replaced is pointless, and any fears in that direction are unwarranted. Not gonna happen.
Arm's should be able to converge due to actuators, the targeting computer handles that much.

Maybe we can get them to change armour distribution so that CT gets more of that armour doubling than arms or legs. But meh, very probably not even that will happen. It's all idle theorycrafting we do here, I don't believe in any significant changes happening.

Maybe we're lucky they'll rework the heat scale...

Nah, probably not either.

[MuKen]

Steambuddy, on 30 March 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

totally disagree to the OP.

Did you actually read it?

Quote

imho the time to take a mech down is ok.

Because this is exactly what the OP said.