35 replies to this topic

[Hayashi]

Only one objection. The SDR-5D does not outsurvive a RVN-3L. If you're facing an enemy with streaks who can keep up with you enough to fire them and has ECM to counter yours (only RVN-3L and COM-2D), the survivability fight is essentially on who has more streaks/firepower. You have none as a Spider, and you will lose if the pilot has any idea what he's doing. The 3L is still more survivable.

I use the 2 MPLAS in arms only build.

[Wrenchfarm]

Hayashi, on 04 April 2013 - 01:34 AM, said:

Only one objection. The SDR-5D does not outsurvive a RVN-3L. If you're facing an enemy with streaks who can keep up with you enough to fire them and has ECM to counter yours (only RVN-3L and COM-2D), the survivability fight is essentially on who has more streaks/firepower. You have none as a Spider, and you will lose if the pilot has any idea what he's doing. The 3L is still more survivable.

I use the 2 MPLAS in arms only build.

Yup, the 3L eats you alive. Best bet is to run away and try to find teammates. In some maps and situations (Desert is great for this) you can use the jets to put some obstacles between you and the land-bound Raven to effectively escape. But yes, you never want to enter the circle of death with a streak toting RVN-3L.

Not to labour the point, but this is another reason to rock a ERLLAS in the chest. You simply can't win vs a 3L within 300m. But with the ERLLAS you might be able to soften him up from a distance or get him while he is distracted with another teammate.

[Tahribator]

Actually after the recent nerfs, you can take on a Raven 1v1 even without ECM. There is enough time to leg them before they core your CT, if you can JJ properly to keep him from locking you. This is because most of the Raven pilots rely on SSRM's and absolutely suck at laser aiming.

You can even "tailgate" him, meaning stick to his 6 o'clock and he won't be able to shake you off. Giving you free shots to his legs/rear armor. It'll take a while before they realize they have to reverse to shake you off.

[Hayashi]

Funny, the 3L pilots I come up against nowadays can aim and know how to manoeuvre properly. Before the streak/SRM/LRM nerf and RVN hitbox fix was a different story though.

[Goldhawk]

Those same pilots that didn't know how to aim learned how to aim, became Spider pilots, or a couple of them have dedicated their lives to destroying Ravens. Heck. The Raven is STILL the most hated mech in this universe. You can have a standard battle going on with LRMS and gauss rifles firing back and forth, then the Raven comes onto the field. Sneaking in from the back to ravage the rear armor of the missile mechs. And suddenly, everyone turns and the sound of R. Lee Ermey yelling to kill that ****************** e*********** ******* mother*********ing Raven, becomes the fore thought on everyone's mind. For the Vets that survived the Broken net codes of doom war saw an 90% usage in the ECM Ravens. Jenners nearly went extinct, and only the foolish wandered out in a Commando. THus even now. I am sooooo thrilled to use a Spider and tear through a Raven's leg and I watch them gimp around. I admit it. But it's just satisfying that the Raven is no longer the top of the food chain.

[Sixart]

A skilled 5D pilot armed with an ERPPC and jumpjets can 1v1 an SSRM 3L easily and win.

[Hayashi]

Sixart, on 04 April 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

A skilled 5D pilot armed with an ERPPC and jumpjets can 1v1 an SSRM 3L easily and win.

Hahaha.

No.

[10 damage you have to aim every 3 seconds] vs [15 damage you have to aim every 3 seconds plus 6 damage autohoming towards CT every 3.5 seconds] is always a loss even if both mechs have the same armour. And the Spider has less armour...

Some RVN-3L pilots not knowing how to use 'R' to target their streaks being easy bait for any player that can aim is no argument for a match between 2 pilots of equal skill.

And this is only an argument for the weird scenario you actually get to fight 1v1. If we were to assume both light pilots have teammates, the lower amount of armour the Spider has would bias this even more in the Raven's advantage.

Edited by Hayashi, 05 April 2013 - 01:46 AM.

[Tahribator]

The thing is, you have to break the lock. If he locks on you and has 360 Target Retention + Advanced Target Decay, he will keep shooting all day without even breaking a sweat. What you have to do is lure him into an area with lots of hills where you can use JJ advantage to break the lock. It's a ***** to lock a speeding speedin Spider jumpjetting all over the place.

If you don't have that advantage, you simply disengage or do not engage at all. That's why I lean towards builds with ER Larges on my Spiders, I can retreat to range and still keep doing damage.

[Sixart]

Hayashi, on 05 April 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

(MathWarrior Online)

As though I am standing still so the 3L can pinpoint the full medium laser damage on me.

As though I can't repeatedly disable counter-ECM by hitting the 3L with PPC blasts.

As though the PPC doesn't have 100% instant pinpoint damage, splash, and greater range.

Even outside a 1v1 setting I think jumpjets and disabling he 3L's ECM gives the 5D the edge. All of this requires exceptional PPC aim so maybe that's why you don't believe me.

[Wrenchfarm]

You people are living in a dreamworld if you think you can reliably take on a RVN-3L in any Spider. Baring a totally mis-match of skill (say the Spider pilot is the living reincarnation of Kernesky, Chuck Yeager, and Maverick from Top Gun combined into one, and the 3L pilot is asleep) a 3L should easily dominate a Spider. If you run into one in your Spider, it's time to use those jets to put some distance between the two of you and find some backup.

Yes yes, I'm sure I'm only saying this because I'm bad at the game and a terrible Spider pilot. I'm sure everyone else effortlessly cockpits the RVN with 4 dead eye ERPPC shots while spinning 360 in the air.

[Sixart]

Wrenchfarm, on 05 April 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

You people are living in a dreamworld if you think you can reliably take on a RVN-3L in any Spider. Baring a totally mis-match of skill (say the Spider pilot is the living reincarnation of Kernesky, Chuck Yeager, and Maverick from Top Gun combined into one, and the 3L pilot is asleep) a 3L should easily dominate a Spider. If you run into one in your Spider, it's time to use those jets to put some distance between the two of you and find some backup.

Yes yes, I'm sure I'm only saying this because I'm bad at the game and a terrible Spider pilot. I'm sure everyone else effortlessly cockpits the RVN with 4 dead eye ERPPC shots while spinning 360 in the air.

Not 3L's, but you get the picture:
http://youtu.be/xoGjVnWT-do?t=4m40s

*drops mouse and leaves*

[Hayashi]

Wrenchfarm, on 05 April 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

You people are living in a dreamworld if you think you can reliably take on a RVN-3L in any Spider. Baring a totally mis-match of skill (say the Spider pilot is the living reincarnation of Kernesky, Chuck Yeager, and Maverick from Top Gun combined into one, and the 3L pilot is asleep) a 3L should easily dominate a Spider. If you run into one in your Spider, it's time to use those jets to put some distance between the two of you and find some backup. Yes yes, I'm sure I'm only saying this because I'm bad at the game and a terrible Spider pilot. I'm sure everyone else effortlessly cockpits the RVN with 4 dead eye ERPPC shots while spinning 360 in the air.

Either way, any new players reading this thread will very quickly find out what is true if they try it for themselves, there's really no need to belabour the point. Reality is not changed by whether or not people believe in it, it can defend itself quite adequately with minimal effort.

[FunkyFritter]

I question the necessity of so many jumpjets. You only need 3 for jump-turning and 1 is enough to get you over short obstacles. The longer your jump the more time you give enemies to line up a ppc shot on your predictable arc, in my experience the extra maneuverability gained from jumping at all is far more significant than how high you actually go. That's not to say that mass jumpjet builds don't have their place, but it's a mistake to dismiss other setups so easily.

[Sable Dove]

Isn't there a bug that makes 1 jump jet just as effective as 8, or 12? I've never noticed a difference; 1 is enough for any build.

I play mine with either 3 MPL, or 3 ML.

3L still beats it hands-down, but the 3L beats every other light easily.

[TheFlyingScotsman]

Streaks have nothing to do with a 5D's survival, nor does killing other lights. The SDR is not made for killing lights, other lights are made for killing the 5D. If you encounter a 3L, you had better be jetting back to your team, or you deserve to die for not understanding your role.

In terms of open gameplay, namely scouting, brawling and generally being a distraction for your allies, the SDR-5D will live longer than a 3L attempting to do the same thing. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Also, reduce your speed and gimp your maneuverability all you want, but the 7/8JJ 3ML spider build is by far the most open and solid, in terms of heat production, damage dealt, average range and weight use. If you are going to use a subtle 'Mech, you had better be subtle, because a slow, blunt, heavy spider is just a free kill that isn't benefiting its team as much as almost any other mech trying to do the exact same thing.

Trying to turn a spider isn a mech that deals damage is like trying to turn a twinkie into a hammer. You would be better off using almost anything else. There is no reason to expect a spider to get beyond the 300-450 range in a "good" game.

Edited by TheFlyingScotsman, 06 April 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[DireWlf]

2 ERLL - http://mwo.smurfy-ne...704958d5f6afdd0
This is the setup I've used most of the time. You could switch up the loadout a little to put more armor on it, which I may actually do soon. I may drop down to a smaller XL engine, maybe lose a jump jet, but this setup has served me rather well. It's purely a sniper/harasser build that, as you can see, can be very effective. You will probably also notice that it's not particularly good against other lights or at least that's my experience. I built if for long range precision, but if you can handle using it up close in a light battle, you're a better pilot than I.

Edited by DireWlf, 03 May 2016 - 04:13 PM.