30 replies to this topic

[C0VVB3LL]

I'm seeing MWO start to fall into some familier traps.
Watch and comment!

http://penny-arcade....crotransactions

[Chavette]

They falling into alot of traps and missing alot of stuff. A referral system with rewards and first win of the day bonus for example.

[Scromboid]

I've been thinking MWO is failing on a few of the points brought up in the video. Price point is one as well as selling power... Anyways I decided to check the math a bit.

If any math is incorrect, please don't flame. Let me know and I'll correct it.

I decided to go ahead and average all the purchasing points together. It's not perfect, but it should more adequately reflect the real prices of things. Obviously, if you buy 25,000 MC, you'll get a much better deal than if you buy 1,250 - and that's a discussion in it's own right. For the purposes of discussing price points on things, I figured it would be more useful to have an aggregate average.

I also included the prices for LoL, because folks have compared it. I am a long time LoL player, and the one thing I would like to make a quick note of is this: A direct comparison to LoL is not really appropriate. Everything ~game play mechanic~ wise that can be purchased for real money in LoL can also be purchased for in game currency. This is not true in MWO. For example: Death Smell is the only Commando with 4E. The X-5 is the only Cicada with 4E2M (or missiles at ALL for that matter). These are NOT JUST SKINS, they are exclusive variants for paying members only.

https://docs.google....R0E&usp=sharing

Chavette, on 29 March 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

They falling into alot of traps and missing alot of stuff. A referral system with rewards and first win of the day bonus for example.

Translated: I didn't watch the video. Still, there are a few things I would like to see the developers add to the game, such as a referral system with rewards for getting my friends to play and the addition of a first win of the day bonus, like World of Tanks, on each one of my chassis.

Edited by Scromboid, 29 March 2013 - 09:19 AM.

[Chavette]

Scromboid, on 29 March 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Translated: I didn't watch the video. Still, there are a few things I would like to see the developers add to the game, such as a referral system with rewards for getting my friends to play and the addition of a first win of the day bonus, like World of Tanks, on each one of my chassis.

I didn't watch it but I wasnt talking about the pricing and the microtransation parts at all, I was just adding a bit to his thoughts.

[Scromboid]

Chavette, on 29 March 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I didn't watch it but I wasnt talking about the pricing and the microtransation parts at all, I was just adding a bit to his thoughts.

So... I translated you correctly. Cool. Thanks for confirming

[Utilyan]

You know that video makes awsome points. The concept of win win sometimes is beyond fear-based milk-it suits especially when they don't believe in thier own product.

That scene with the velvet barrier rope..... I feel it every time that new hero mech comes out.

Its like when next hero comes out......Heavy Metal HERO TOURNAMENT.

On the subtle level when the folks who got no money just get a window shopper's let down everytime they log in its prob going to show at some point or worst they don't show up at all.

It think to myself man they could have least trial-mech that hero, you can't even customize a trial, that might even have pushed the sale to those who could afford it, If you don't believe in your own product its hard to make others believe in it.

Its like why would we want to trial-mech a hero? so they can UN-want it?

[Commander Kobold]

C0VVB3LL, on 29 March 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I'm seeing MWO start to fall into some familier traps.
Watch and comment!

http://penny-arcade....crotransactions

more developers need to be forced to watch this

[Noobzorz]

I think they're walking the tightrope pretty neatly, actually.

Coolant flush seems like it's in a good spot right now. I really don't like the idea of hero mechs as they are now, but I never feel overmatched by someone in a pretty baby when I'm rocking my DDC. I think the only hero mech that is debatably superior to its stock variants is the Ilya.

[MeatForBrains]

The Prices in this game are INSANELY high. Not just high, CRAZY expensive.

$20 for a Flame, (which i mistakenly bought, won't buy another hero mech simply because it's way expensive)
$27 for a Pretty Baby,

and if you want Franken, with the colors it comes with (or any color at all for that matter)

$19-$20!@#$ FOR COLOR.

It's insane, and I can't justify paying for that. I can have colors on my mechs, Or my wife and I can get mexican food, WITH a 32oz Dos Equis.

Who all agrees that it's overpriced, and if reduced you would actually buy color or cockpit items? Or more hero mechs?

It way way better to buy premium time then fork it over for heroes.

I also wanted to add that the whole concept of buying MC in place of showing actual prices, and not having a 1 to 1 ratio of MC to dollar amount is so you don't really know what you are spending unless you pull out a calculator. This makes it so that you accidentally spend more than you really would in the first place.
This is simply just being unethical regardless of how many other microtransaction games employ this.

Edited by MeatForBrains, 29 March 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Roadbeer]

The video should be used at all business schools as a model of modern economics.

Quote

if you buy 25,000 MC, you'll get a much better deal than if you buy 1,250 - and that's a discussion in it's own right.

In the interest of keeping that discussion short, and to answer the "They're just trying to get you to spend more money" argument. While that isn't necessarily untrue, it breaks down to credit card processing.

With many services, you pay the same rate whither the transaction is $10 or $100, so obviously it is in the sellers interest to coax purchasers into the higher bracket. It stings less to pay $4 on $100 than it does to pay $4 on $10.

On the other end, using Paypal as a service, you're paying a flat % rate on a transaction, the lower end purchase is more desirable as the fee sting is less, say $.40 on $10.

So, I know you're about to say, "Hey Roadbeer, that math works out to being the same fee on $100, so if the transaction cost is the same, why not just use Paypal and have the MC brackets scale?"

Short answer, as a seller, Paypal is a HUGE pain in the *** to get your money from relative to a credit card service.

[Rakashan]

I'm curious what traps the OP is thinking of. From my point of view, MWO is about the purest implementation of the ideal listed in the video. They are not providing the free user with a path to MC at this point but in WoT (arguably the closest comparison at the moment) that comes out of CW. The only other big issues on the list are "selling power" which has been a concern off and on, most recently in the P2W furor over consumables (which seems to have gone away although I have not tried using Coolant Flush to decide for myself) and people complaining about the pricepoint chosen.

I'll point out that as much as he likes to complain about a $70 monacle (which might be comparable to a $50 hero mech) he also points out that as long as players buy them, companies will continue to sell at that price. So stop and think about that for a minute. Price point has *zero* to do with this video and the microtransaction model and everything to do with the playerbase and their purchasing habits. In fact, the video tells companies to do market analysis (which is one of the things that a beta is for) and low and behold PGI *has* changed pricing models (see changes to paints and skins) and retroactively refunded purchasing prices for them.

So yeah, by any measure I am aware of, PGI has done a damn fine job following the principles espoused in such video.

[Roadbeer]

Comparing the $70 monocle to the $50 hero doesn't track. The hero has a useful purpose in the game. The monocle would be more like the price for a pattern or color that has no purpose but aesthetics.

[Commander Kobold]

Roadbeer, on 29 March 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Comparing the $70 monocle to the $50 hero doesn't track. The hero has a useful purpose in the game. The monocle would be more like the price for a pattern or color that has no purpose but aesthetics.

doesn't change the fact the PGI is overpricing their digital crap

[Roadbeer]

It's worth what people are willing to pay for it.

[PropagandaWar]

Omni 13, on 29 March 2013 - 10:52 AM, said:

doesn't change the fact the PGI is overpricing their digital crap

Wait till Tuesday. If there are tons of Highlanders then people feel prices are fair. If not well then......

[Tennex]

There arn't traps they're common sense. just learn from success. Watch League of legends.



but the hero mechs assaults costs too much. even though in battle their value is about the same as any other mech(hey that was one of your pillars)

not sure who they had make the pricing scale. but a 1:75 linear tonnage scaling is just lazy. better market test those prices . the highlander probably doesn't count though. because what will be sold is both the mech and early access. and that is not reflective of the mech itself's value.



one thing i disagree with this video in is. to give access to all money. as long as MC is only for cosmetic items. theres no reason for free players to get it.

sell cosmetics and convenience
early access counts as convenience

Edited by Tennex, 30 March 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

Tennex, on 29 March 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

There arn't traps they're common sense. just learn from success. Watch League of legends.



but the hero mechs assaults costs too much. even though in battle their value is about the same as any other mech(hey that was one of your pillars)

not sure who they had make the pricing scale. but a 1:75 linear tonnage scaling is just lazy. better market test those prices . the highlander probably doesn't count though. because what will be sold is both the mech and early access. and that is not reflective of the mech itself's value.



one thing i disagree with this video in is. to give access to all money. as long as MC is only for cosmetic items. theres no reason for free players to get it.

being able to earn MC at a snails pace would probably do the game some good actually, because as the video said, once they buy something with their free MC they'd be more likely to actually buy some, (would also help if the MC prices weren't soo ridiculous

PropagandaWar, on 29 March 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Wait till Tuesday. If there are tons of Highlanders then people feel prices are fair. If not well then......

just because people buy the over priced digital crap stuff doesn't mean the prices are fair, only that some people are willing to pay the inflated prices

[armyof1]

PropagandaWar, on 29 March 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Wait till Tuesday. If there are tons of Highlanders then people feel prices are fair. If not well then......

Tuesday is going to be so interesting. Because then people will decide with their money if it's ok to let only people willing to shell out (an amount that you could get a whole finished game for) to get the newest mechs while letting the CBill warriors wait a few weeks. On paper it doesn't look so bad, but it's all just another step to test the waters. Because F2P game devs are basically like children, they'll test you time and time again to see what they can get away with. All of course to make you feel you need to spend more money. And the more you accept, the more they'll push that limit just a bit further every time. I fully expect pink mechs all over the place, because MWO has so many whales tossing the amount of cash into this game that I'd spend on a short vacation abroad, I don't see the prices ever drop to something reasonable.

[Noobzorz]

Roadbeer, on 29 March 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

It's worth what people are willing to pay for it.

True, but facile. The marginal cost for providing a hero mech is functionally nothing, so you want to pick the price such that P*Q(P) is maximized, since development is all sunk costs. Would they be able to sell more than twice as many hero mechs if they were half the cost? I suspect yes, but I don't know.

Edited by Noobzorz, 29 March 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Commander Kobold]

armyof1, on 29 March 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

Tuesday is going to be so interesting. Because then people will decide with their money if it's ok to let only people willing to shell out (an amount that you could get a whole finished game for) to get the newest mechs while letting the CBill warriors wait a few weeks. On paper it doesn't look so bad, but it's all just another step to test the waters. Because F2P game devs are basically like children, they'll test you time and time again to see what they can get away with. All of course to make you feel you need to spend more money. And the more you accept, the more they'll push that limit just a bit further every time. I fully expect pink mechs all over the place, because MWO has so many whales tossing the amount of cash into this game that I'd spend on a short vacation abroad, I don't see the prices ever drop to something reasonable.

the problem with what you just wrote is that the people who are planning on buying them mech don't really care about the CBill warriors as you put it. so no one is actually deciding anything with their money.