13 replies to this topic

[PaintedWolf]

Reading an interesting discussion on the TT forums on which some interesting points have been made:

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Turning this thread around a little (or taking it to its next logical step, maybe)

... you're on a Chaos March world that has been rocked by civil wars, political stalemate, famine and disease for close to 10 years. And then the Wob arrive - would you throw in with them?

I'd be inclined to say yes. I mean, in hindsight you know they're freaking crazy and will start the Jihad shortly but, think about what they're offering:
- the chance and the ability to re-unify the planet under a single, functional government
- access to education and medical software, training, facilities, staff, etc
- security in the form of a Level III of mechs and armor or so and they actively want to help you set up an on-world militia
- money! Soldier and staff on leave spend money at bars, clubs, hotels, restaurants, etc and that stimulates the economy. Imagine them doing so on your world.
Not only that, but some of those troops and staffmembers are going to settle on your world and they'll bring their dependants.
Not a bad thing for a planet that may have been heavily depopulated by a decade of infighting.

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If you read shattered sphere and what happened in the chaos march, it's a pretty definitive yes. I am not well read on the civil war literature but I'm sure more horrible things happened to these worlds then.

What it boils down to is this: who you going to trust, a bunch of mercs who are governed by self-interest and the horrid status quo of war... or a wealthy order that is interested in building and developing your world up, gets you access to Terra and the best schools available for your kids (thats including NAIS) and the only governing body that has managed to keep it's charges, Terra and Gibson, out of the genocidal hands of warring successor lords?

Even in hindsight and knowing the WoB for what it is, in the 3060s as a Chaos citizen or noble I'd still have supported Blake... and I'm a freedom loving, star league hating periphery rat to boot!

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This is true. The Word brought peace, stability, and reconstruction to worlds long laid to waste by the squabbling House Lords. Blake Militia regularly may proactive sweeps to eliminate terrorists and pirates, and sought to curb the Wolf's Dragoons perpetuating the cycle of warfare in the region that such mercenaries thrive on.

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Precentor William Blane fixed the problem of the "religious fanatic" stereotype by selecting ambassadors from the True Believers who focused on what people needed to hear: jobs, medical assistance, security.

Focht's puppet ComStar may wish otherwise, but Blane was intelligent in who he chose and how they made their cases.

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Gone far enough in terms of what, the lies about Holy Shroud and such that Focht and Molari wrote? What does the average middle-school-educated spheroid understand or care about such bickering?

Impersonating another command is hardly uncommon, and major militaries aren't exactly known for standards of honor. That said, the whole operation on Terra probably wasn't as openly reported on interstellar news as the birds-eye view of it we have.

Blatantly expansionist agenda... helping the worlds that by and large welcomed them in or that they saved from (in and OOC) the brutal oppression they were living under?

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Gone far enough in terms of what, the lies about Holy Shroud and such that Focht and Molari wrote? What does the average middle-school-educated spheroid understand or care about such bickering?

Impersonating another command is hardly uncommon, and major militaries aren't exactly known for standards of honor. That said, the whole operation on Terra probably wasn't as openly reported on interstellar news as the birds-eye view of it we have.

Blatantly expansionist agenda... helping the worlds that by and large welcomed them in or that they saved from (in and OOC) the brutal oppression they were living under?

Anyways, a lot of people stereotype the Blakists as some kind of absolute evil, but it looks like they weren't necessarily that different from other factions, in terms of means or ends, in the Battletech universe, though I guess the issue of methods is questionable.

On the one hand they are presented as pretty devious and ruthless, on the other it sounds like such behavior was common in the Chaos March and the Great Houses during the Succession Wars, and even by the Lyrans during the FedCom Civil war:

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It helps that a handful of Lyran divisions used Nuclear weapons before the Jihad started during the FedCom Civil war, which would really play into the Blakist's favor that they didn't start anything

Discuss: Were the Blakists evil overall? How do they compare to other factions in terms of good or evil? Do you think it could have been a good thing if they won? How much is the fact that they are cybernetic/religious part of why people dislike them? Are their methods really better then other factions? And do you think the common people were better off under them in a way?

[Righ]

I don't know if I would consider Blakists "evil". They just have their own agenda, and were following it fairly violently. Not a whole lot different than the other Inner Sphere houses. However, I would say that they are pretty nuts, considering they attacked pretty much everyone.

The only thing that really surprised me was that Blakists were allowed to reintegrate with ComStar after the Jihad was over. I feel like there would be a pretty big outcry from the rest of the IS when it was all said and done, and I doubt everyone would just let living Blakists peacefully back away into the shadows.

[PaintedWolf]

Righ, on 29 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

I don't know if I would consider Blakists "evil". They just have their own agenda, and were following it fairly violently. Not a whole lot different than the other Inner Sphere houses. However, I would say that they are pretty nuts, considering they attacked pretty much everyone.

The only thing that really surprised me was that Blakists were allowed to reintegrate with ComStar after the Jihad was over. I feel like there would be a pretty big outcry from the rest of the IS when it was all said and done, and I doubt everyone would just let living Blakists peacefully back away into the shadows.

Well there were a lot of them, and even if you don't agree with a side, you can't just start killing hundreds of thousands or millions of them even if they were pretty nasty. I mean we didn't do that to various dictatorships, and the Republic of Sphere tries to present itself as moralistic.

Also they have a lot of technology the RAF wanted. And last, they are trying to get information about the rest of the Hidden Five. In fact the Ghost Bears really messed that up at the "Ruins of Gabriel" by going on a rampage during their Trial of Annihilation and attacking any friend and foe in sight, which made it so the Coalition was basically unable to get extra information from the Blakists.

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The Ghost Bears emerged at one of the system pirate points, and their first act was to order the combined Lyran and Wolf-in-Exile force to stand down; the Ghost Bears then crippled a Lyran WarShip that attempted to intervene in the impending battle between the Ghost Bears and the Blakists. As the remaining Lyran and Wolf-in-Exile forces stood off, the Ghost Bears attacked the Word of Blake, but proved unable to prevent the Blakist forces scuttling the Ruins of Gabriel facility and escaping from the Odessa system.^[16][15]

http://www.sarna.net...uins_of_Gabriel

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Hidden worlds

The scarce information available about The Five suggests that ComStar, during the reigns of Jerome Blake and Conrad Toyama, used its control of communications and mapping to deliberately hide the existence of worlds that had been depopulated and devastated during the maelstrom of early Succession Wars, maintaining them in secret as havens, manufacturing and fallback sites for the Order. The process of hiding these worlds was achieved through retro-active alteration of star maps throughout the Inner Sphere and shell games involving name changes.

Besides The Five, numerous other hidden worlds exist; some were lost colonies (re-)discovered by the ComStar Explorer Corps (such as Alfirk or Haddings), others (such as Roxborough) were settled by the order. Some, like the Luyten 68-28 facility, were previously have been secret military facilities of the collapsed Star League that fell under ComStar control.

[edit] The Five

Information indicating the existence of the The Blood, a rumored cabal of Clan Wolverine descendants hidden within the ComStar organisation, refers to The Five falling under the control of The Blood during the reign of Raymond Karpov.^[1] The existence of The Five was known only to very few high-ranking ComStar officials; Myndo Waterly was the last Primus privy to that knowledge. Intending to use the resources of the Five to reinforce her public forces in the wake of Operation Scorpion, seeing little chance of success the "Master" refused to aid her. After Waterly's death and the organisation's schism, the knowledge and control of these worlds resided solely with the Master and the Word of Blake, remaining secular ComStar order almost entirely unaware of their existence. ^[2]

At some point, possibly from the onset, The Five were centers of weapons research and construction, thought to be created as secret fortress worlds from which to wage war on the Clans. They have been revealed to include a large shipyard, a bioweapon research center, and a cybertech center. The mysterious Manei Domini and their Shadow Divisions were rumored to have originated from the Five.

The Five were reportedly defended by descendants of the Clinton's Cutthroats mercenary unit, hired in secret by Kaprov after the accidental discovery of one of the worlds on 15 October 2869 and permanently settled on The Five.^[3]

Jump data for supply runs and contact with the hidden worlds was a closely guarded secret, hidden in plain sight and embedded deep into the firmware of the HPG network. During the pre-Schism era, those few trusted with knowledge of the Five were issued a special noteputer to connect to a HPG and access the required security protocols. After providing three separate passwords, the HPG transmitted a self-purging course to the appropriate Hidden World to the attendant JumpShip. ^[2]

Once the Five fell under the sole control of the Master and the Manei Domini, the Word of Blake made extensive improvements to these security protocols, integrating it into the cybernetic implants of those Domini with appropriate clearance. Expanding off the Manei Domini's ability to direct link to BattleMechs, three separate high-ranked Manus would simultaneously remote-access a HPG and think their way through the security protocol, their implants reading the information and transmitting the decryption key to the HPG, again transmitting a self-purging course to the intended Hidden World. ^[2]

[edit] Locations

One hidden world supposedly lay in the territory of each of the five Successor States, though it is possible that the one associated with the Capellan Confederation ended up in conquered territory following the Fourth Succession War. One report indicated that one world, most likely the one in the Draconis Combine, was dead even before the Jihad began.

The known worlds are

• The Ruins of Gabriel (Lyran Commonwealth space) turned out to be a shipyard complex hidden in the Lyran system of Odessa. Gabriel was found and attacked by a coalition battle fleet.
  
• Jardine (Free Worlds League space), previously also known as Herakleion. Apparently a center for cybernetics and presumably the homeworld of Precentor Apollyon and the Manei Domini. Thomas Marik was brought here to be treated for the injuries sustained in the bombing that killed his father. His double (Thomas Halas) was trained on Jardine. Brooklyn Stevens found Jardine during the Jihad, but her team was hunted down and terminated. Later, an expedition sent by Thomas Halas found that the planet Jardine had succumbed to a natural disaster known as a traps volcano, and had become totally uninhabitable.
  
• Mayadi (thought to lie in Draconis Combine space and speculated to have been depopulated by a bioweapon breakout, in turn speculated to have been caused by bioweapons research conducted there)
  
• Taussen (thought to lie in Federated Suns space)
  
• Obeedah (thought to lie in Capellan Confederation space)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/The_Five


So far only 2 of the Five worlds have been destroyed. The other three are possibly still out there, and according to one source they might not even be worlds exactly and the term might just be a metaphor. The Ruins of Gabriel for example was a shipyard complex. Simply put, the Blakists probably still have an army, but the Republic doesn't want to create a panic and keeps that information classified. Simply put, the Republic is anxious to attain any information on the remaining Blakists it can get. Also who's to say they haven't more hidden bases or worlds then the Five out there?

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Evil. Definitely evil. WoB pretty much is the old ComStar pre-schism. The same organisation whose goal was to drive mankind back to the stone age technologically so that they'd be forced to turn to the toaster worshippers for salvation. Their methods? Assassinating some of the most brilliant minds of humanity whenever they got close to discovering or re-discovering technology. Making damn sure the succession wars continuedrather than help stop them. Destroying an entire colony to frame a mercenary company just because the mercs were based on a planet with a Starleague memory core.

These are the sort of things WoB in the form of Comstar when ComStar effectively were WoB did for centuries. Of course, the average Spheroid knew nothing about this, so yes, I can see war-weary chaos march worlds welcoming their stability, but make no mistake. WoB is evil through and through as an organization, even if not every individual wobbie is personally an evil, malicious monster.

[PaintedWolf]

“ We are Manei Domini.

We are the Hands of the Master.
We are the Will of the Blessed Blake.
We are the saviors of humanity.

The human race is intrinsically evil. Within each and every one of us may be found salvation and hope, intelligence and grace. But to a much greater degree, each and every one of us harbors greed, selfish pride, lust, and ambition the seeds of our own destruction. History teaches that time and again, the will to do evil is strong enough to overpower the will to perform good.

This will has created mighty empires, moved mountains, and settled the stars…only to bring us to the brink of annihilation time and time again for centuries uncounted.

Evil is in the nature of all mankind. It is integral to the flesh.

It is thus that we willingly sacrifice our very flesh. We trade the evil within us for the purity of technology, the cold, impar- tial perfection of the machine, yet retain enough to cling to our mission. We divorce ourselves from the senses and sins of the flesh—the petty desires of ego, lust, and vanity — yet we do not lose sight of their affect on others. We embrace the visions of a brighter future—even if it is one our fellow man must be dragged toward, kicking and screaming.

We become more than merely human, and far more than mere machines. We become tools of the Master, born in his image, awakened to his purpose, a purpose of pure, enlight- ened truth. As the hands are the first tools of men, we become tools of the Master’s vision. We become the Master’s Hands.

Some might call us monsters, in the same fashion as all weapons of war are seen as monstrous. But what we do is for the betterment of all. We accept this responsibility willingly, exchanging our very lives to the Master and his vision for a greater glory all might one day share.

That is what it means to be Manei Domini. That is our legacy for the future.

Sursum corda. [Lift up your hearts.] Dignum et justum est. [It is good and right.] Gratias agamus Domino Blake nostro. [Let us give thanks to Blake our lord.] ”

--Personal record of Apollyon, Precentor Manei Domini (circa 3069)

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Apollyon

Edited by PaintedWolf, 29 March 2013 - 01:21 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Righ, on 29 March 2013 - 10:14 AM, said:

The only thing that really surprised me was that Blakists were allowed to reintegrate with ComStar after the Jihad was over. I feel like there would be a pretty big outcry from the rest of the IS when it was all said and done, and I doubt everyone would just let living Blakists peacefully back away into the shadows.

Not all of them, from Jihad Final Reckoning:

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Only Way to be Sure

(14 December 3081)

Poulsbo [ISAP] -- Millions are dead or dying on the disputed world of Poulsbo today as a result of an act both Lyran and Tamarind governments are calling "senseless ********", carried out by a Regulan task force hunting stragglers of the Word of Blake. Having already obliterated all life on Gibson, Paradise, and Diamantina, the Regulans came to Poulsbo-- a strategic border world historically contested by both Houses Steiner and Marik--in response to rumors that Blakist forces loyal to the mysterious "Master" were on-planet. Instead, they found of Heart of Blake, a mercenary command that reportedly broke with the Word early in the Jihad.

The Inbound Regulans reportedly ignored repeated hails by the Heart of Blake, as well as the planetary government operating from the capital city of Bangor Heights, insisting the Poulksbo was, in fact, a free world. These hails turned to pleas of mercy, and offers of liaison and and intelligence exchange by the ex-Blakist force when the Regulan fleet--dominated by the WarShip Delos, reached high orbit. All of these appeals came to naught, as the Regulans began an intense thermonuclear bombardment of the capital and the nearby Bangor military base, using cobalt-clad weapons for maximum effect. Additional strategic weapon impacts were reported on all five of Pouslbo's island continents, targeting any major population centers their sensors could detect from orbit.

Only after several inquiries were made by media agencies on Regulus did ISAP respective a response from a Principality representative identified as Junior Lieutenant Mitch Sherman:

"The modus operandi of the Word of Blake, from the very start, has been one of deception and misdirection that inevitably costs countless lives," Sherman told ISAP. "Thus, our field commands have been authorized to treat with suspicion any possible ploys that may be seen as potential Blakist treachery. This includes denying succor to any unit of former Word of Blake affiliation, claiming to fight against Word of Blake interests, as such units can easily be a front for infiltrators. Regulus has already suffered from the Word of Blake ruses enough, and will chance no further deceptions by an enemy known to employ terror both as a means to its own end, or as a means to slip sleeper operatives onto supposedly friendly or neutral worlds."

When questioned on the what-if scenario that perhaps the Heart of Blake was indeed sincere as to its break from the zealots, Sherman simply replied: "There is only one way to be sure."

To be fair, there is a good deal of justification for above suspicion:

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Shadows over Oriente

FWLS Santorini : "Attention, Zechetinu-class vessel arriving at Escorial-L1. This is ODS Santorini. Identify and burst Authorization or you be flagged as hostile. Respond."

[Static]

Santorini : "Zechetinu-class vessel, respond at once."

[Internal] : "Viper-Squadronm standby for launch of Hawk Squadron, after vector for intercept new con---"

[FWLS Acari : "Santor--i. this is ODS Acar--nsmitting Authorization, but our--nications are damaged. Re-send--or verification..."

Santorini : "Acari, Santorini. We are receiving your Authorization, but your audio is garbled. Standby...."[Internal]: "Hawk Squadron, close pass on contact. Verify ID and condition. Viper Squadron, maintain standby. Branth Squadron, to your fighters."

Hawk-A: "Santorini", Hawk-Actual here. I have visual. Markings and IFF consistent with Acari. I see multiple damage points forward and midship sections....Jumpsail is missing....No Active targeting.

Santorini : "Acari, Santorini. What is your status?"

Acari : "Santorini, Acari. We have--m system damage, and engines--at eighty per---t. Damn Robes---it us hard at Ohrens---e lost the Kustarachnae and had to pull out---least we can still move...."

Santorini : "Affirmative Acari. Standby to receive---"

[Hawk-A] : "IR bursts! One---no, two of them---one o'clock high! Hawk Squadron, break right!"

Acari : "Santorini! We---two bogeys astern! P----dvise!"

Santorini : "Acari, come to and close ranks! [Internal]:

"Hawk Squadron, we read both inbounds. Cover the Acari. Viper Squadron, launch! Branth Squadron, load for capital engagement and launch as ready! Forward gunnery stations, match bearings with target designation Alpha!"


[Hawk-A] : "Santorini, Hawk-Actual. Sensors tag both bogeys as Vincent-class, Mark Thirty-nines by the silhouettes. They are tracking us."

Santorini : "Acknowledged Hawk Squadron. Maintain cover on Acari. We're coming."

Viper-A: "Santorini, Viper Squadron is away! Vectoring for intercept on Target Beta!"

Santorini : "Santorini acknowledges. Weapons free and firing on Alpha."

Acari : "Santorini, Acari. We are tak-----vy fire. Lose thrust. Port side maneuv----out."

Santorini : "We have your back, Acari." [Internal] "Hawk Squadron break and attack Alpha! Branch Squadron, away!"

Branth-A: "Branch Squadron is away! Vectoring for intercept on Target Beta!"

Viper-A: "Acknowledge, Branth Actual. Thanks for the assist."

Branth-A: "Not a problem, Viper Actual! We've been waiting to pay these Robe ******* back since Atreus."

Hawk-A: "Santorini, Hawk Actual! Alpha is changing course, veering off. "

Santorini : "We see it, Hawk Squadron, Maintain pressure; we have her flank. Acari, slide to our port; keep us between you."

Acari : "Affir---torini...."

Viper-A: "What the hell?"

Branth-A: Santorini, Branth Actual! Beta is bugging out! Repeat, the Robes are running!"

Santorini : "Keep on them, Branth Squadron, Don't let them regroup! ......Acari where did those fighters come from?"

Acari : " Peace of Blake be with you!

Santorini : "Son of a *****! Those are Shadow fighters! Engage point defen----! Mother----! [Internal] Damage report!"

Hawk-A: "The hell? That was a nuke! Santorini, Hawk Actual! What is your status?"

Santorini : "Standby, Hawk Squadron..... [Internal] "Raptor Squadron, to your fighters! Capital batteries, target the [i]Acari! All gun crews, weapons----Damn it!"

Edited by PaintedWolf, 30 March 2013 - 11:33 AM.

[shameless]

Let's not forget all the ultra advanced Tech they made. We know it wasn't all destroyed. The IS never Found The Eirynes, the Newgrange they turned into a Mass accellerator... Or that they decommissioned all the the defense systems. We know they didn't as that's the only way Fortress Republic ever would have worked.

[PaintedWolf]

Previous/Aftermath:

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Blakist Raids Savage Duchy of Oriente

(20 March 3079 )

Oriente [ISAP]-- A series of Word of Blake attacks, carried out by at least four Divisions with Warship support, ravaged the Duchy of Oriente, directly striking at least five worlds across the former Free Worlds League member state. Duchy officials say the month-long raiding campaign was executed with remarkable precision and focused specifically on denuding the region's aerospace and ground defenses, as a possible prelude to additional attacks.

Speaking on behalf of the Duchy government, General Royal Buchanan told reporters that the origin of the Blakist task force was unknown, but stressed that none of the attackers were believed to have been from among those that fled the allied campaign for Terra that completed earlier this year.


"We identified, in all, the colors of four distinct Word of Blake Divisions among the raiders," Buchanan said, "including one Shadow Division not previously encountered."

The raiders struck first at Ohrensen on 6 February, swiftly destroying the destroyer Schrack with a nuclear attack, before dropping troops on the planet to smash the First Marik Militia and disable the local hyperpulse generator. Reinforcements from Kyrkbacken and Suzano---including the corvettes Acari and Kustarachnae--arrived within a week of the attack, but proved unable to overpower the Word of Blake task force. The Kustarachnae was reportedly destroyed while attempting to protect her sister ship and cover the arriving Fourth Fusiliers of Oriente, and the Acari--it was learned later---was seized by Manei Domini.

On 12 March, the raiders launched a daring hit-and-run against Oriente, using the battle-damaged Acari arrived as a Trojan Horse. The Acari, still apparently fleeing from Blakist raiders, took the carrier Santorini off-guard during her patrol of the Duchy capital. Once more employing fighter-delivered tactical nuclear devices, the Acari managed to cripple the Santorini's KF drive. While the turncoat corevette was subsequently destroyed, its attack rendered the most powerful ship in the Ducal fleet unable to respond to the Word's secondary strikes, which fell against Les Halles, Dayr Khuna, and Jouques just one day later.

On Jouques, the damage was particularly severe, as the two attacking Word of Blake Divisions destroyed the defending Second Fusiliers, plundered their base for supplies, and departed under the cover of a nuclear strike on three nearby population centers scarcely a week later.

[PaintedWolf]

[Evinthal]

Best part about the Word of Blake. They skyrocketed the technology level in the universe in less time than anything else had before.

Also they had some damn nice fancy toys.

[anastasia kerensky]

The Word of Blake did nothing worse than any major faction has done. Their style of warfare was only shocking as it would seem most players are only familiar with the Clan era story and missed the mutual assured destruction of the first and second, Succession Wars. I would also argue that the Word of Blake’s reasons for war were actually for the betterment of mankind compared that of the Clans, House Lords, or Comstar. As no faction is “good” within the Battletech universe but motivation wise the Word of Blake’s reason for theocratic dictatorship are more selfless and less self-serving, than most other factions.

Edited by anastasia kerensky, 31 March 2013 - 09:28 PM.

[boomboom517]

anastasia kerensky, on 31 March 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

The Word of Blake did nothing worse than any major faction has done. Their style of warfare was only shocking as it would seem most players are only familiar with the Clan era story and missed the mutual assured destruction of the first and second, Succession Wars. I would also argue that the Word of Blake’s reasons for war were actually for the betterment of mankind compared that of the Clans, House Lords, or Comstar. As no faction is “good” within the Battletech universe but motivation wise the Word of Blake’s reason for theocratic dictatorship are more selfless and less self-serving, than most other factions.

Actualy wob nuked population centers as well as deploying chemical weapons you should also note that their mechs are desighned with massercering infanty in the most brutal way possible. Plasma Rifles.

[Evinthal]

boomboom517, on 31 March 2013 - 09:42 PM, said:

Actualy wob nuked population centers as well as deploying chemical weapons you should also note that their mechs are desighned with massercering infanty in the most brutal way possible. Plasma Rifles.

I love the double standard.

Guess what...

At some point

All the other Houses of the Inner Sphere did the same thing!

Go read up on the Succession Wars like Anastasia Kerensky pointed out, and take off those Davion issued rose colored glasses.

Your point is moot.

Here is a good thread with information about all of this over on the CBT forums.

P.S. the Plasma Rifle was developed by the Capellan Confederation, so there is one of the "Great" Houses providing the tools for the "Massacre of infantry in the most brutal way possible".

Edited by Evinthal, 01 April 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Lightdragon]

considering the amounts of mass ******** the blakists committed on all planets including earth itself tells me that they were indeed evil incarnate to them there were no civilians and no casulties of war just cattle to the slaughter
edit: really guys? gen-o-cide is filtered?

Edited by Lightdragon, 11 April 2013 - 11:49 AM.