25 replies to this topic

[XIRUSPHERE]

A comment made by one of the devs essentially stated that forum user polls and opinions are a minority. I'm familiar with the argument as it's an industry standard. My suggestion is that as an act of good faith they could add a poll to the start up page when you enter the game from time to time.

It would be a simple affair to create incentive to participate in the poll such as a small c-bill award or say a piece of fluff for your mech. In such a way PGI could broadly measure the desires of it's user base and test the water with ideas in a stream lined and friendly fashion. The level and manner of dialogue can always be better and it's a simple suggestion.

I don't expect it to be taken seriously but it seems a tad more reasonable than the polarity of forum discourse and corporate discourse.

[Team Leader]

Agreed +1

[Donas]

As Beta testers, it need not even be optional. Make it mandatory to log in.

[Elder Thorn]

OP's idea is a very good one and OP also doesn't have many posts, his opinion might be taken into account

[Aurrous]

i think while you are taking 20 min to patch, you have time to answer some polls.. this info would go to stuff needed for the next patch, and seeing how everyone has to patch.. you get a better sample of the user base..

[Bobzilla]

This is the dumbest statement ever made I think.


The difinition of poll is the exact opposite of what he's saying:

"A survey of the public or of a sample of public opinion to acquire information."

Every poll is a minority reflecting the majority. Its a sample, as forcing everyone to answer something is crazy and takes too long. Polls aren't exact, but what makes him say they reflect the minority's opinion? The only way to make that statement is to ask each and every player, or make another poll which is larger.

Edited by Bobzilla, 27 March 2013 - 05:38 AM.

[Neolisk]

Bobzilla, on 27 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

The only way to make that statement is to ask each and every player, or make another poll which is larger.

This is exactly what OP is suggesting and it should not be hard to implement. Although I strongly suggest to differentiate between players in different performance groups. For example, new/rare players can vote but their votes have lower weighting. Or even better, have different polls for different performance groups. For example, people who spent less than 2 hours per week, <2 hours per day, and finally >2 hours per day in game, etc.

[Bobzilla]

Neolisk, on 27 March 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

This is exactly what OP is suggesting and it should not be hard to implement. Although I strongly suggest to differentiate between players in different performance groups. For example, new/rare players can vote but their votes have lower weighting. Or even better, have different polls for different performance groups. For example, people who spent less than 2 hours per week, <2 hours per day, and finally >2 hours per day in game, etc.

I'm pretty sure they would look at how much $ they spent before how much they play. On top of that if the majority of people play 2 hours a day, it would be worth more than a minority that plays 5 hours a day.

[XIRUSPHERE]

Bobzilla, on 27 March 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

This is the dumbest statement ever made I think.


The difinition of poll is the exact opposite of what he's saying:

"A survey of the public or of a sample of public opinion to acquire information."

Every poll is a minority reflecting the majority. Its a sample, as forcing everyone to answer something is crazy and takes too long. Polls aren't exact, but what makes him say they reflect the minority's opinion? The only way to make that statement is to ask each and every player, or make another poll which is larger.

So you want to argue the semantics of a single word and make a spectacle. What i'm suggesting is to sample as many peoples opinions as possible and create incentive to participate as the industry standard is to ignore forum users and what they call a small minority. If they could even sample 50% of the games users through such a method it would be far more productive than simply following the polarity of hardcore users versus corporate speak. If you want to deconstruct what I said you should have been able to get the gist of it.

[Deathlike]

Here are a few issues:

1) You can have many accounts (as many as you want technically) and "stuff the ballot" as it were. It would not be truly be representative. You could always add arbitrary requirements, but that doesn't necessarily mean the results are a proper representation.

2) There are many biases in any user created poll. I guess you could build it in game, but unlike my first point, there are actual details to certain questions that have to be addressed, so a simple yes or no poll isn't always as simple as it could be.

Anyways, what is desired by feedback is a whole bit of constructive criticism and discussion... less vitriol and stupid that is posted in threads trying to argue a point. Sometimes we end up being @ the "dog chasing tail" type of discussion because we know exactly where it will end up.

[Monky]

Polls are by definition minority opinion, however this does not mean the opinions expressed inside them are that of a minority. In fact, polls tend to be so accurate once they have a significant sample size that we are able to predict NATIONAL ELECTIONS within 1-2 percentage points.

Ignoring polls that receive a decent amount of exposure (a hundred to a few hundred people) is equivalent to ignoring polls for national elections (and we see where that got the defeated party), in sense of scale. Granted, the idea here where exposing a poll to the 'front page' of the MWO client would get a better sample size, but the people playing might be absolute noobs who know nothing of how the game actually works. Perhaps have it show after 100-200 games are played.

[Bobzilla]

XIRUSPHERE, on 27 March 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

So you want to argue the semantics of a single word and make a spectacle. What i'm suggesting is to sample as many peoples opinions as possible and create incentive to participate as the industry standard is to ignore forum users and what they call a small minority. If they could even sample 50% of the games users through such a method it would be far more productive than simply following the polarity of hardcore users versus corporate speak. If you want to deconstruct what I said you should have been able to get the gist of it.

It's the whole point of a poll, not semantics of a single word. I even said a larger poll would be the only way to prove that the smaller polls are the minority opinion. The problem is they are only guessing that all the polls out there aren't good, they have no evidence if the majority is silent. This isn't a mistake, they want to do what they want to do but let people feel like they matter. If they truly thought that the opinion of the polls is of the minority, then by logic, the opinion of the majority would be the opposite outcome of any poll and they could go by that. So a bigger poll would either prove them wrong or force them to reject the opinions of the majority or force them to do something they don't want to do.

[Arcaist]

+1

[XIRUSPHERE]

Bobzilla, on 27 March 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

It's the whole point of a poll, not semantics of a single word. I even said a larger poll would be the only way to prove that the smaller polls are the minority opinion. The problem is they are only guessing that all the polls out there aren't good, they have no evidence if the majority is silent. This isn't a mistake, they want to do what they want to do but let people feel like they matter. If they truly thought that the opinion of the polls is of the minority, then by logic, the opinion of the majority would be the opposite outcome of any poll and they could go by that. So a bigger poll would either prove them wrong or force them to reject the opinions of the majority or force them to do something they don't want to do.

Your logic is sound, thus my disclaimer about being taken seriously.

[Rigiroth]

Yes. Do it now; I'd actually log in to MWO again.

[Dirus Nigh]

This is a good idea. If PGI put a poll question or two on the home screen of the launcher they would get a better understanding of what larger majority of players think. A simple yes, no, and no opinion to simple clear questions would be a good start.

[Peiper]

Why are people arguing against mandatory polls? 1st, we are BETA testers. 2nd, people typically love answering polls. They are fun, and it's nice to feel like your opinion can make a difference. 3rd, I want to know if the public polls reflect the feelings of the forum users, and I'd like to know that PGI would want to know that too. 4th, it is true that the polls done here represent those players who truly care or are concerned with the longevity of the game, and so our opinion SHOULD matter. However, we often base our ideas of what we want according to what we PERCEIVE everyone wants. I would like to KNOW what everyone wants before I launch into such an argument.

If we have mandatory polls, they will have to have some things taken into account. 1st, some people wouldn't know what to answer because they're too new to know what the polls are about. 2nd, some people will have only played certain mechs/builds and/or only been on the receiving or dealing end of the polls. For example: what do you think of missle boats? (answers: I never play them, so I think they suck/are OP. I play them all the time and I think they suck/are OP. And: what's a missle boat??)

I guess the polls can be more detailed. Question 1: have you ever played a mech with more PPC's/Gauss rifles than other weapons? If yes, can you give us your opinion on ______________? If no, what do you think about facing them?

The problem with public polls is the time and manpower it takes to evaluate the polls. However, I bet there are dedicated fans of this game that would volunteer to tabulate the results to give the devs to look over.

[Aurrous]

Peiper, on 27 March 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Why are people arguing against mandatory polls? 1st, we are BETA testers.
2nd, people typically love answering polls.
3rd, I want to know if the public polls reflect the feelings of the forum users, and I'd like to know that PGI would want to know that too.
4th, it is true that the polls done here represent those players who truly care or are concerned with the longevity of the game, and so our opinion SHOULD matter.

to item 1 i think most people have forgotten that..
To item 2 I think Most want to just kill things, and troll.. And they don't care until you inhibit the ability to kill and troll things..
Item 3 and 4.. im not sure i would use the word "manditory".. so much as use the words "subjected to", with the option of ABSTAIN, or OPT OUT of a polling...

[Peiper]

Aurrous, on 28 March 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

to item 1 i think most people have forgotten that..
To item 2 I think Most want to just kill things, and troll.. And they don't care until you inhibit the ability to kill and troll things..
Item 3 and 4.. im not sure i would use the word "manditory".. so much as use the words "subjected to", with the option of ABSTAIN, or OPT OUT of a polling...

1. What better way to remind them than to ask them what they think of the game they've been given the privilege to help develop!
2. True, people do like to complain and tend to react rather than pro-act. This would force them to think ahead rather than in reaction to.
3. Well, perhaps you're right on the mandatory thing. But if they don't care or don't have the knowledge to answer appropriately, then maybe its a good thing that they abstain or say nothing, allowing those who do - even if they are a very vocal minority - to push the game in the right direction. In any case, one great thing with such a poll is that it would show the forum users whether their thoughts are reflective of the whole or a very small minority. If the majority opt-out of answering the question, then they've given up their right for representation - like not voting in an election. The again, the poll has to be worded so they don't feel compelled to choose the lesser of two evils instead of good ideas! (Okay, better shut up before I start going real-life politics!)

[Sir Roland MXIII]

XIRUSPHERE, on 26 March 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

A comment made by one of the devs essentially stated that forum user polls and opinions are a minority. I'm familiar with the argument as it's an industry standard. My suggestion is that as an act of good faith they could add a poll to the start up page when you enter the game from time to time.

It would be a simple affair to create incentive to participate in the poll such as a small c-bill award or say a piece of fluff for your mech. In such a way PGI could broadly measure the desires of it's user base and test the water with ideas in a stream lined and friendly fashion. The level and manner of dialogue can always be better and it's a simple suggestion.

I don't expect it to be taken seriously but it seems a tad more reasonable than the polarity of forum discourse and corporate discourse.

Many betas I've been part of in the past have done this, and I find it rather indicative of a company's level of interest in their own success as a whole by whether or not they include this in their own beta test. A yes being yes, no being no. So if they were wanting to indicate more interest in the success of MW:O, this should've been implemented from the start, however the lack of it tells much. Were they to do this, I think things would get better for them and us both, but until it's done I'll remain highly skeptical of PGI's commitment.