38 replies to this topic

[RavenMadCat]

ECM although useful, is incorrect in MWO. ECM never had a bubble effect, it only covered the user. Also never countered the ability to lock on to target, only delayed the lock. Now before people lash into me for being a lrm noob, I have multiple mechs some are brawlers, couple snipers and one boat. Most are Mastered and without spending much money.

However, when I do C4, I find myself in a predicament. ECM. Before you new players rip into me for "Easy meching it" let me remind you, I am an old BT-TT player, at almost the age of 30 and, been in the video games since MW2. Before that, I played BattleTech. ECM never did this before. Older players recognize this and have been asking for a nerf since it was introduced. They have nerfed all missiles but they have not nerfed ECM and I wanna know why. Gauss is under powered and AC/20 is overpowered. Is this due to CoD player outcry of wanting to turn this into a FPS or is this an oversight of the ignorant developers of a game that at this point, I question, ever played the original games, or even read the multiple books?

Did they only watch cinematics, and assume what did what? Or did they actually do the research?

You newer players have caused a nerf in basic IDFS roles. Missiles are supposed to do the following: LRM = 1hp per missile that contacts target. SRM = 2.5hp per missile that contacts target. These have both been cut in half. Due to "Fan Outcry"

But who were these fans? Were these old players? NO. These were new age players used to FPS on consoles. Why is a PC game catering to the kids? How about this? Let's make this game have a age req: Must have been born before 1990 ...well that may be a bit to restrictive. 1995? Pretty sure MW3 was out around that time.

If you are NukkaN00b, **** and stop changing our game.

[Sephlock]

Well, when will knockdown be re-implemnented? They said its removal was only temporary, so...

In other words, nobody knows.

[Sephlock]

RavenMadCat, on 30 March 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

ECM never did this before. Older players recognize this and have been asking for a nerf since it was introduced. They have nerfed all missiles but they have not nerfed ECM and I wanna know why.

Maybe some devs like using ECM as it is now?

Quote

Gauss is under powered and AC/20 is overpowered.

Ordinarily I would mock this for the insanity that it is, but since you seemed so reasonable up to this point, I think I'll give you a chance to explain yourself.

[yashmack]

the devs have said that ECM is working as intended but that they are looking at it as well as other counters due to the community's input
there is no timeline and no further info on it right now

[CrashieJ]

Sephlock, on 30 March 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Maybe some devs like using ECM as it is now?

thats what scares me, the premise that the only reason ECM is still broken is because the Devs LIKE IT to be broken. and if that's the case, they shouldn't be handling balance, if at all, the game and Mechwarrior License .

Edited by gavilatius, 30 March 2013 - 01:55 AM.

[RavenMadCat]

Sephlock, on 30 March 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Maybe some devs like using ECM as it is now?





Ordinarily I would mock this for the insanity that it is, but since you seemed so reasonable up to this point, I think I'll give you a chance to explain yourself.

Magrail tech: gaussrifles in previous games did the same amount of damage as AC/20 but at 3x range. Simple equitation is this: firing a smaller round but at supersonic speed. = dmg. Mass+Velocity=Force. firing a ballistic gun powdered round vs firing a pellet at supersonic speeds = equivalent dmg. slower traveling large round vs highpowered small round should equate the same hit. physics.

I may be wrong in basic science but, that was how it worked in the old games. Just saying. Gauss vs AC, Gauss always won out.

[Yokaiko]

RavenMadCat, on 30 March 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

. Gauss is under powered and AC/20 is overpowered.

As noted before NERF EVERYTHING!!!!


Seriously AC20 is overpowered? Nerf small lasers, nerf medium lasers (done), nerf engines (done), nerf collisions (done), nerf gauss (done), nerf missiles, (holy hell done).

People will ***** about whatever the last thing that killed them was, people need to GTF over it.

gavilatius, on 30 March 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

, they shouldn't be handling balance, if at all, the game and Mechwarrior License .

You can make numerous arguments for that anyway, ECM or no.

[Erasus Magnus]

RavenMadCat, on 30 March 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Magrail tech: gaussrifles in previous games did the same amount of damage as AC/20 but at 3x range. Simple equitation is this: firing a smaller round but at supersonic speed. = dmg. Mass+Velocity=Force. firing a ballistic gun powdered round vs firing a pellet at supersonic speeds = equivalent dmg. slower traveling large round vs highpowered small round should equate the same hit. physics.

I may be wrong in basic science but, that was how it worked in the old games. Just saying. Gauss vs AC, Gauss always won out.

Wrong.
MW3 damage values were the same as TT values.
MW4 gauss damage came somewhat close to AC 20 damage, the AC 20 still did more damage than the gauss.
And gauss in MW4 won over AC 20 because of the general preferance for long range weapons and poptarting being huge in this game.
In TT, the gauss rifle does 15 damage, which is the case in MWO as well.
In TT the AC20 does 20 damage, which is the case in MWO as well.

so they did not stray too far from TT in this case.

i conclude: Gauss are just fine in terms of damage.
However, i think the gauss rifles slug velocity is way too slow. it sits at 1200 m/s if i recall correctly.
It should be near the ppcs and ac2s verlocity of 200 m/s, no?

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 30 March 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Erasus Magnus, on 30 March 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

In TT, the gauss rifle does 15 damage, which is the case in MWO as well.
In TT the AC20 does 20 damage, which is the case in MWO as well.

so they did not stray too far from TT in this case.

Until you consider that you fire MUCH faster, TT was over 10 seconds, over 12 seconds an AC20 does 80 damage, and a guass does 45.

If you normalize them to 30 seconds
TT would be 60 damage for an AC20 and 45 for a guass
MWO would be 300 damage for the AC20 112.5 for the guass

[Jules Vernes]

It's so funny how the people with the biggest complaints are the ones that find that in MWO is not everything how it used to be in their precious and fond memories of Battletech tt. Guess what? This game can not work by those rules. And if it is only because you sit in the cockpit of one mech and are not commander of some. Of course one could also argue that the system does not use dice, that you actually aim with your mouse/joystick and so on.

At some point the "old elite" just has to accept that MWO is an adaption of the universe brought to PC, NOT the original Battletech.

Edited by Jules Vernes, 30 March 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Jules Vernes, on 30 March 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

At some point the "old elite" just has to accept that MWO is an adaption of the universe brought to PC, NOT the original Battletech.

Yes, but either though crap modeling, or some......we'll say questionable....design descions, this is becoming CoD with stompy robots....and a bunch of cash draws.

I still think they should have balanced around the STOCK mechs first, and then made the hardpoints.

What we have now is a classic case of too many variables, and since they are effectively released, we are stuck with them.

Edited by Yokaiko, 30 March 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[Moromillas]

April, on a sunny day.

Source: Crystal ball.

[General Taskeen]

It'll be fixed on Monday.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Officially it's under review. Sad that it took THIS LONG just to get them to look at it and realize or accept that maybe it's just a tad OP(YA THINK? UH DOOOOOOOOOOOOH), but better late than never, right?

[Ph30nix]

ECM currently IS a bit overkill, which when people were screaming the sky is falling over missles (before bug) and were too brain dead to just get out of the way it was needed handicap

but now that missles have been toned down, they need to adjust it. or buff some things about missles(speed best choice)
but right now at minimum

I should always know who my teammates are if im outside the brawl and its in an ECM bubble i have no CLUE who my teammates are most of the time especsially on hazy, or cluttered maps. (at the very least keeep enemy mechs with zero info but teammate mechs have the itermintant info i mean is it that hard to keep a little blue triangle above them?)

with that alone id be alot happier but some things that would be nice
have BAP increase your rage to be able to break thru ECM bubble and remove the low signal dead zone for you(so if you have a BAP and get into range to target ECM then your whole team sees it too) i think 2x the detection range for bap seems good? maybe 3x (400-600 meters)

lets narc work THRU the ecm (narc needs buff big time anyways)

give ECM 3 functions instead of only 2 (i heard a variation of this from someone else before but i forget their name so cant give credit but im sure alot fo people have had this idea)
one of the functions does the normal ECM counter mode
one mode gives the "bubble" effect
one mode tive the low signal effect (without this on the bubble effect doesnt stop transmitting targets to team from inside bubble)

the above woudl require multiple people to work together to get full ECM effect (seems fair since usualy alotta ECM's anyways)

my idea which is a variation of above is to reduce its stregth depending on how many teammates its trying to cover
so if your alone its just covering you and works normal
have 2 teammates near you its effectiveness drops say 50% so enemies can see you from 400 meters (dont ask me about match on that) 4 teammates and people can see you all from 600 meters

again multiple ecm's counter the weakening effect, it lowers the power when only one is used, but doesnt kill it for those lights who are scoutting.

[Grayseven]

There isn't anything wrong with ECM. Dual AC20's disrupt the game more than ECM does at this point. ECM does nothing but prevent detection outside of 200m...and you can still see them visually...and prevent lock for SSRM's and LRM's...and TAG, PPC hits and counter ECM defeat that.

If you are running a Streak Cat, then it's your own fault for using a build that can be defeated by one system. Without ECM, SSRM's become OP since they have relatively low recycle and automatically hit.

If you are running an LRM boat, drop down a missile rack size and put in TAG. Again, the only builds affected by ECM are the ones that don't compensate for ECM.

[Ph30nix]

Grayseven, on 30 March 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

There isn't anything wrong with ECM. Dual AC20's disrupt the game more than ECM does at this point. ECM does nothing but prevent detection outside of 200m...and you can still see them visually...and prevent lock for SSRM's and LRM's...and TAG, PPC hits and counter ECM defeat that.

If you are running a Streak Cat, then it's your own fault for using a build that can be defeated by one system. Without ECM, SSRM's become OP since they have relatively low recycle and automatically hit.

If you are running an LRM boat, drop down a missile rack size and put in TAG. Again, the only builds affected by ECM are the ones that don't compensate for ECM.

whats the A1 supposed to do vs ECM? oh yea splat cat is then the only 100% viable build vs ecm.

but no the ECM is not currently fine, its not game breaking or anything but its too much at moment. Yes its counterable but it was only made THAT strong because people didnt know how to avoid missles, with missles nerfed so heavily its time to scale ecm back a bit or give it some trade offs.

[Grayseven]

Ph30nix, on 30 March 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

whats the A1 supposed to do vs ECM? oh yea splat cat is then the only 100% viable build vs ecm.

but no the ECM is not currently fine, its not game breaking or anything but its too much at moment. Yes its counterable but it was only made THAT strong because people didnt know how to avoid missles, with missles nerfed so heavily its time to scale ecm back a bit or give it some trade offs.

2 SRM 6's in an A1 take care of ECM. Also, if you work as a team instead of a bunch of individuals, you can have a team mate with TAG or ECM counter...heck, even a PPC hit by a team mate takes care of that for a bit. The A1 is an exception in that it is a pure support mech that requires other mechs to be viable...unless you are running a splatcat which, to be honest, I'd do if I were trying to Elite Cats.

Missiles are still strong, just not so OP that they one shot mechs. The days of 90 missile salvos destroying mech after mech are gone. Missiles are once again relegated to the role of support, helping strip armor off of mechs as they close so that they are weaker when they engage in CQB.

[Yokaiko]

Grayseven, on 30 March 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

There isn't anything wrong with ECM. Dual AC20's disrupt the game more than ECM does at this point.

First, OMFG people will ***** about ANYTHING, people have been running dual AC20 cats since closed beta....NOW they are an issue since missiles were nerfed into the floor.

Second, if ECM was so good to go the -3L -2D and whatever the Spider is wouldn't be the most common lights and the -3L DEFINATELY wouldn't be the king **** out of the class. The Jenner has better hardpoints AND jump jets...

....but no ECM, so its an also ran.

[Xenosphobatic]

gavilatius, on 30 March 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

[/size] they shouldn't be handling balance, if at all, the game and Mechwarrior License .

Because there was such a long line waiting for the chance to make a MW game. The IP was idle for, what, 11 years? At this point, we should be grateful that someone had the ******* to step up to the plate and take a swing instead of letting the title sit where (OTHER COMPANIES) left it.

Is the game perfect? I can't say that, but at least they're making that effort.