50 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Mad Cat II, on 30 March 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Somewhere, I can not find it now. I posted the idea of an extra payout if you drop underweight. I think my idea was 1% per 10 tons difference. I like the idea but I am not sure it would help the situation. If it would I would be all for it !

How about a larger payoff for dropping in premade queue, bonus for dropping underweight but then a slightly smaller payout for dropping in regular queue.

Think of it as a 'competitive queue/grouped queue' and a 'regular/pug queue'.

Higher payout for dropping in a more competitive environment. Even more payout for doing it underweight. Less payout for dropping in a premade team in regular queue. You don't want to force people into something, better to do it by rewards.

[Mr 144]

Here's an actual suggestion for ya..You guys a private TS ? I haven't bothered to check. When you're running 8s, log on to NGNG and Comstar NA just to show you're running. A lot of groups late at night scroll the lists, and if they don't see any 8s they dont bother. Can't tell you how many times lately we've impromptu scrimmed against others just because we were visibly prepared to run 8s.

Mr 144

[Mad Cat II]

MischiefSC, on 30 March 2013 - 10:04 PM, said:

How about a larger payoff for dropping in premade queue, bonus for dropping underweight but then a slightly smaller payout for dropping in regular queue.

Think of it as a 'competitive queue/grouped queue' and a 'regular/pug queue'.

Higher payout for dropping in a more competitive environment. Even more payout for doing it underweight. Less payout for dropping in a premade team in regular queue. You don't want to force people into something, better to do it by rewards.

I agree this could work. I just think the same a Jman. WTH happens when we go to 12 v 12 ? If PGI doesnt do something (and it seems like they are planning to further divide the small group of players they currently have (think 3rd person vs 1st person)) Perhaps simply going back to the way it was when you could have any size groups. Not just 4 or 8. And than those groups being dropped against groups of similar size. Filled in with pugs.

Mr 144, on 30 March 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

Here's an actual suggestion for ya..You guys a private TS ? I haven't bothered to check. When you're running 8s, log on to NGNG and Comstar NA just to show you're running. A lot of groups late at night scroll the lists, and if they don't see any 8s they dont bother. Can't tell you how many times lately we've impromptu scrimmed against others just because we were visibly prepared to run 8s.

Mr 144

Nearly always on CS NA. I think the issue there is that the clans are WAY down the list. It feels kinda step childish. Though I suppose that we could always just take over DS 1 or something. Gotta get the guys on board.

[Mr 144]

Mad Cat II, on 30 March 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I agree this could work. I just think the same a Jman. WTH happens when we go to 12 v 12 ? If PGI doesnt do something (and it seems like they are planning to further divide the small group of players they currently have (think 3rd person vs 1st person)) Perhaps simply going back to the way it was when you could have any size groups. Not just 4 or 8. And than those groups being dropped against groups of similar size. Filled in with pugs.

OMG, no. We rarely have a problem fielding 12. In fact, it would probablly help, as we usually have at least 4 waiting for a spot. What you're suggesting might as well read "bring back the Pugstomp...PGI's MM is not capable of balanced drops with premades.

Mad Cat II, on 30 March 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Nearly always on CS NA. I think the issue there is that the clans are WAY down the list. It feels kinda step childish. Though I suppose that we could always just take over DS 1 or something. Gotta get the guys on board.

See, and that's wierd...I almost never see 8 of you on in channel in NA..even the ones that are in your channel are usually muted...as if they're elswhere.....listed in AFK/other TS...hmmmm

Mr 144

Edited by Mr 144, 30 March 2013 - 10:15 PM.

[Mad Cat II]

It isn't an issue for us to field 12 but if there isnt enough for 8 it stands to reason there isnt enough for 12

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Last post:

Something else to consider... the demographics of 8 man drops.

8 man drops are coordinated affairs and that requires a group that can field a regular set of people and doing so means very specific times.

The reason why I said I told my group to enjoy the double-xp weekend and not worry about practice is because of the fact it's a holiday and people are working on the fast grind. Your original post was about today, it wasn't until people challenged your summation before you brought in this perception of what's occurred over time.

Regardless, getting back to the point... 8 mans drops are not casual affairs. Those that get together, without a unifying voice, or without care for coordinating mechs and builds or people who don't have the concept of "battle ready" mechs may come together spontaneously (more so over the public com resources than spontaneously in game) but once they come against coordinated teams (QQ, CI, DS, CR) it can discourage them quickly... What's worse are groups that trounce those nubile players and then make say or do things that discourage them from wanting to continue.

8 man drops are a specialized queue and as such disruptions like double XP, holidays, and such are a very and highly salient reason for not finding 8 mans this weekend.

I'd argue, if you wanted to be constructive... these are things you'd talk about and would've crafted an initial message on these items and how to over come them instead of just... well, what you appear to be doing. Just saying.

Anyway, good luck and I hope you have greater success finding 8s.

[Grimstein]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 30 March 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

Bcuz 8 mans sux?
No tonage restriction.No ECM restriction.
Bring 5xDDC and 3x3L FTW.Sorry it is not game I want to play...

[color=#222222]No one that had a clue would take that drop deck. Maybe once have I seen a drop like that. Mostly I run into balanced teams 2222 and the like. It’s not true that it is common to run into teams playing such heavy drops. If you do run into it it’s only one drop. The meta has changed anyway. 3ls are not what they were, ecm is not that big a deal. The continued crying about it just laughable. And if you did run into that team the ones playing it would GG and admit there drop was ridiculous. [/color]

[Mad Cat II]

I think this may be the 4th time I've stated this.

Daisu, do you think it is reasonable / acceptable to have a time when it is impossible to play a certain part of a game? I'll give you 8 mans are specialized and that currently it is easter weekend. However this problem does happen more than just this weekend. And even if we were only using this weekend as an example it is still not a good sign for the situation of the game that there is only a small handfull of people playing 8 mans.

That combined with some other "bad" decisions that PGI is currently in the process of making seem to guarantee that the situation (which is already happening occasionally) will get worse.

- Dividing the q up even further into 3rd person view and 1st person view.

- Making people have premium time to effect the meta game.

Both of these would only further hurt the competitive side of this game. As for those people that play competitively it is fairly clear that even a 4 man group (on coms) dropping against 8 pugs is a pug stomp. So I guess I just am not seeing the difference between 4 and 8 man pug stomps in the end. I donno, maybe it's me but it seems unlikely.

[Mad Cat II]

Grimstein, on 30 March 2013 - 10:22 PM, said:

And if you did run into that team the ones playing it would GG and admit there drop was ridiculous.

If only that were the case. May a times we have dropped against much heavier groups. Honestly it is usually fairly even so I dont complain. But it certainly does happen alot. And JW drops 8 mans nearly every night.

As for the rest of your post I agree ECM and 3L s (I'd add DDCs) are quickly becoming antiques in 8 mans.

[jay35]

8-mans suck. Way too competitive and min-max. I understand the reason for their existence but I want nothing to do with it in its current state. Same will likely be the case for 12-mans unless they have combat value and some other restrictions in place. PUGing, as lousy as it can be without voice comms, or 4-man groups, which are the most fun, are the only way to play MWO if you want to enjoy it as a casual game. I have zero interest in stressful competitive esport-type 8v8 matches.

[Mad Cat II]

jay35, on 30 March 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

8-mans suck. Way too competitive and min-max. I understand the reason for their existence but I want nothing to do with it in its current state. Same will likely be the case for 12-mans unless they have combat value and some other restrictions in place. PUGing, as lousy as it can be without voice comms, or 4-man groups, which are the most fun, are the only way to play MWO if you want to enjoy it as a casual game. I have zero interest in stressful competitive esport-type 8v8 matches.

Well said, I think that Jay's opinion is the issue with MWO atm. The polar of that is that 4 mans are only pug stomps and solo dropping is crap because what is the point in playing a multiplayer game if you are gonna play alone. See jay the issue is that noone is happy.