183 replies to this topic

[Tezcatli]

This has been a recurring theme in threads. They need to implement tonnage limits on matchmaking. Even if someone is highly skilled, they're still fighting an uphill struggle against heavies and assaults. It'd be like sticking a light weight fighter against a heavy weight fighter. Sure he could be skilled enough to beat him, but he would still be at a considerable disadvantage.

[Lukoi Banacek]

How does the OP know he has a high Elo to begin with. Assumption #1 right there. Perhaps his Elo is actually more commensurate with the level of competition he's being paired with and thus, he's right where he's supposed to be. In the end, coordinated teams (often premades) are going to roll pretty well against pure 8-randoms regardless of Elo scores so it can be hard to tell.

[Corwin Vickers]

Caleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

That's the real rub... there's no way for one pilot or even several to carry a team. A group of average to above average players will always win in a game like this.

I also want it that way.

I'm NOT winning most of my games right now unless we all go Atlas/Stalker and carry the team. That is NOT fun. I'm forced int o a weight class not of my choosing so I stand any chance of winning.

Your Elo is a seperate score for each weight class. So if you do better in assaults then you will be expected to do better in assaults by having a higher Elo score and being matched against harder opponents. If you don't do as well in say medium mechs then you won't face as tough opponents thus equaliziing how many games you win/lose.

It's also only based on wins/loses, not kills or damage. The larger the sample the more accurate it should be.

[Caleb Lee]

Vermaxx, on 31 March 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

He has already stated his ratios are still above 1-1/1-1. When his ration get BELOW 50/50, I will feel bad for him.

I don't want him to get punished because he is leet (if he was that leet he'd stop banging his head against a wall and get on another team, even some shartlords in TS3), I want him to realize that he is still above the curve.

If he is this upset while being ABOVE THE CURVE, what happens if his stats actually do even out at 50/50 solo?

I am NOT soloing. PUG on public comms (Comstar NA) or with friends (when I win the most).

What I'd like to know, is since when is forcing someone to lose a good thing. Completely kills incentive to play.

[redacted]

Corwin Vickers, on 31 March 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Is it really a punishment to get matched up against an equal force?

Are some people unclear on the concept?

It's not an equal force though. 4v8 can't win unless the other team does something really stupid. As a rule, the other half of our team routinely does less than one of us damage wise. Sometimes not even half.

Edited by miSs, 03 April 2013 - 09:56 AM.
Politics...

[Caleb Lee]

Lukoi, on 31 March 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

How does the OP know he has a high Elo to begin with. Assumption #1 right there. Perhaps his Elo is actually more commensurate with the level of competition he's being paired with and thus, he's right where he's supposed to be. In the end, coordinated teams (often premades) are going to roll pretty well against pure 8-randoms regardless of Elo scores so it can be hard to tell.

Making an assumption on my ELO as I'm usually in the #1 slot. Please don't assume I'm lonewolfing as I'm not. I'm doing 4 man Pre-made teams on public comms or with friends. Even then, the odds are so bad we barely in 2 out of 3. What usually happens is what i posted above where it ends up being the 4 of us left against most of the enemy team and where even one of our guys does more damage than the entire 4 other players on our team.

[Nightfire]

ShadowDarter, on 31 March 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

so your basically saying that your now having to play at a realistic level compition, and that you cannot pug stomp like you used to...

As for 8 man teams its only 8V8 no mix ups and sync dropping was never a supported feature.

welcome to the new world...

Coolwhoami, on 31 March 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Either a troll or a fool, always hard to tell which.

Bogus, on 31 March 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

So basically what the OP is saying is that ELO actually does work and it's making it harder for coordinated 4-mans to roflstomp pugs? Hm, interesting, most comments I've seen are that ELO isn't pairing people up right.

Keep denying that this is anything but entitled pugstompers whining for the easy days past as the numbers of complaints rise. When you start telling people complaining about the legitimate issues with the broken matchmaker multiple times a day, I'm sure you'll still deny them, you'll still attempt to shame them and you will still attempt to silence them.

Here's the rub. We don't need you to validate what we are saying, the truth of it remains. We don't care about your shaming tactics, we need to care about your opinions before that can work. You can't silence us, there are too many of us now!

[Caleb Lee]

Tezcatli, on 31 March 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

This has been a recurring theme in threads. They need to implement tonnage limits on matchmaking. Even if someone is highly skilled, they're still fighting an uphill struggle against heavies and assaults. It'd be like sticking a light weight fighter against a heavy weight fighter. Sure he could be skilled enough to beat him, but he would still be at a considerable disadvantage.

Thank you, someone finally gets it...

[Tickdoff Tank]

Nightfire, on 31 March 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Keep denying that this is anything but entitled pugstompers whining for the easy days past as the numbers of complaints rise. When you start telling people complaining about the legitimate issues with the broken matchmaker multiple times a day, I'm sure you'll still deny them, you'll still attempt to shame them and you will still attempt to silence them.

Here's the rub. We don't need you to validate what we are saying, the truth of it remains. We don't care about your shaming tactics, we need to care about your opinions before that can work. You can't silence us, there are too many of us now!

The Matchmaker does have problems, (IMO) the largest problem being the weights of the opposing teams. But the basic nature of an Elo system is to put teams of roughly the same skill level together. That should result in an approximate 50% win rate.

Elo ratings (and I have my issues with Elo being used in this type of game) work best when everyone has the same number of games played. Failing that, then the more games you play the more accurate your Elo rating will be. It will never be "perfect" and the Devs kown this, but they hope they can get Elo to be "good enough". That is going to take time. And it is not even a case of "Take a break from the game and come back later" because the game will still need you to run a lot of games to figure out what your Elo is.

Taking a break now might reduce *some* of your issues, assuming that they tweak the Elo rating scheme that they are using to be more accurate and to look at more factors, but there is no telling how long that will actually take.

[redlance]

Chavette, on 31 March 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Lol, 8ddc teams are jokes, we roll em all the time.

true story.

[Ghost_19Hz]

Corwin Vickers, on 31 March 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Is it really a punishment to get matched up against an equal force?

Are some people unclear on the concept?

you are unclear tardo, the matches are not even. its not working like your fantasy wanted.

[Noobzorz]

Normally ELO hell is an excuse for scrubs and mcnubs to explain away their badness in team settings, and I am tempted to just say that it is the case here. If my ELO is bad or good, that's probably largely on me. Yes, sometimes you'll get a bunch of total doorknobs for teammates, but those really stick in your memory (the game where I was 450+ damage in my ****** DRG-1N and the nearest person was ~150 is the most memorable from the whole weekend, for example), and it may escape your notice when you have seriously skilled carry teammates.

I'll grant you, 8v8 without decisive OHKs complicated the issue, and PGIs hamhanded handling of certain things (MGs, flamers, LRMpocalypse) makes me wonder if there aren't more, but if your teammates are bad, just rejoice in the fact that many of your opponents are likely to be bad also!

Edited by Noobzorz, 31 March 2013 - 09:08 PM.

[Corwin Vickers]

Caleb Lee, on 31 March 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

I am NOT soloing. PUG on public comms (Comstar NA) or with friends (when I win the most).

What I'd like to know, is since when is forcing someone to lose a good thing. Completely kills incentive to play.

[redacted]



It's not an equal force though. 4v8 can't win unless the other team does something really stupid. As a rule, the other half of our team routinely does less than one of us damage wise. Sometimes not even half.

PythonCPT, on 31 March 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

you are unclear tardo, the matches are not even. its not working like your fantasy wanted.

By the OPs own admission his win/loss is not yet at 50% so it isn't working yet but not in the direction you want it to be working.

OP should be losing a lot more often than he is because the system should be matching him up against harder opponents or saddling him with worse team mates.

If you didn't pick your 8 players this is how the system works. With a larger pool of players asking for a match at the same time your matchings should be better. The only other way to improve it would be to have the match maker wait longer to give a match.

Remember, it can only match you with players that are currently asking for a game, players not waiting in queue or in a game aren't available to be matched with you.


The other issue is that if you win more than half the time the match maker continues to stack the deck against you till you reach a 50% win/loss ratio.

OP, you already admit you like to drop in 4s so you already have an advantage. You can try harder and hope to keep your Elo artificially high or you can go with the flow and let it equalize out to 50%.

Maybe you'll get better matches when Elo is not trying to make you lose.

The definition of an equal opponent is when you win 50% of the time and lose 50% of the time. If you guys are winning more than 50% of the time your opponents are not equal. Clear yet Python?

[Parnage Winters]

Tonnage restrictions are a legit gripe, the rest is just..well..here watch this video. Different game same general concepts.
http://youtu.be/5MTO2a7ZFcc

For the life of me I forgot how to embed so eh.

[Ghost_19Hz]

Corwin Vickers, on 31 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

BLAH BLAH BLAH
Elo artificially high or you can go with the flow and let it equalize out to 50%.

Maybe you'll get better matches when Elo is not trying to make you lose.

***** plz

a 50/50 win ratio does not mean you are getting equal/fair/fun matches or that ELO is working. All it means is you were forced into an artificial 50/50 win ratio, no matter whether you were good or bad.

For example, we'll pretend, lets say Player A has a 51% win ratio, he then gets steamrolled doing 500 damage in an 8-1 Loss. Then he has 49%, so the system matches up his team ELO and they steamroll the other team 8-0 win, he now has 51% again. The system then puts him on a team that gets the prison pounds for 8-0 loss. Now at 50% you hope for a super epic even match, but it doesnt happen because Player A's ELO rating eats up too much of the average ELO, and get paired with ppl who dont know their *** from their elbow and gets pounded to 49% where he awaits his turn to steamroll the other team.

New players should be separated into a que, and good players should not be punished by throwing the most terrible players online at the moment on their team. But i guess if you want a good experience should just join a merc corp, but i think the OP already covered that.

Just to reiterate.... %50 win ratio DOES NOT = fun/fair matches.

[Parnage Winters]

I don't think you get to discuss Elo in this game if you keep calling it ELO. It should be a rule that you must at least -try- to not look silly doing such.

On the upside, I am proud to be posting in one of MWO's first if be it subtle "IAM STUCK IN ELO HELL" threads.

[Corvus Antaka]

LOL.

I was just about to post about how ELO MUST be working because my KDR has been dropping steadily from 4.00 to about 3.5 in the past 2 months.

My assumption is the quality of my opponents has improves due to ELO and indeed this appears to be the case.

L2P?

[Tickdoff Tank]

Parnage, on 31 March 2013 - 10:15 PM, said:

I don't think you get to discuss Elo in this game if you keep calling it ELO. It should be a rule that you must at least -try- to not look silly doing such.

On the upside, I am proud to be posting in one of MWO's first if be it subtle "IAM STUCK IN ELO HELL" threads.

First? Not by a long shot. Maybe one of the first 100.

[Caleb Lee]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 31 March 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

LOL.

I was just about to post about how ELO MUST be working because my KDR has been dropping steadily from 4.00 to about 3.5 in the past 2 months.

My assumption is the quality of my opponents has improves due to ELO and indeed this appears to be the case.

L2P?

I'd say the quality of your opponents is going up and the quality of your teammates is going down as in my case it's both.

That makes for a brutal adjustment and with the screwed up tonnage, even worse as if I play anything less than a heavy it's painful.

You could say L2P but really the only thing that has changed is the quality of my team going down and the enemy team constantly getting better.

The only thing I CAN do is to try and improve the quality of my teammates and I'm working on that by not playing with PUGs and more with a decent/good unit. My ratios are declining much less but still in decline as we keep getting worse teammates.

I wouldn't mind losing if all things equal, i.e. everyone on both sides were at the same level. I WOULD LOVE this... but that's not the case.

This artificial bullcrap of putting the worst of the worst on your team is just NOT fun.

[and zero]

To those passing off legitimate complaints/observations about issues that are quite real as people being upset about losing: **** off.

The current Elo/matchmaking is pretty much worthless. No tonnage balance is bad. But the elo itself is far worse. I play in 3-4 man groups. We rarely ever lost before elo and were always the top of the board(which was boring, not fun). Now we are still the top 3/4 on the team with usually at least 500+ damage and 2-4 kills...but with the other 4 on our team having done less than 100 damage before committing a useless suicide or wandering out of bounds. In call of duty i could solo half the enemy team in a few seconds with a clip or two of well placed rounds. MWO is not at all like that. Thus, 3-4 awesome players + 4-5 worthless players vs. 8 average players = 4vs8 = an almost certain loss. The matchmaker is quite broken. End of story. Please excuse any typos this was on my phone.

Edited by and zero, 31 March 2013 - 10:51 PM.

[Corwin Vickers]

Except for every game that you lose the match maker will try to give you a winning game so not every game has your 3 friends and 4 *******. If you and your friends go on a losing streak there will be a corresponding winning streak, presumably by giving you and your 3 friends some better team mates.

If your win/loss is higher than 50% you will lose more often till it is 50% or at least the match maker will try to make you lose.


People who lost more than half the time before Elo was put it aren't complaining because they are probably winning half the time now.



And for those of you who think this is communism it's equivalent to you being 20 and in the first grade. They are going to keep moving you up in grades till you are challenged. You don't get to pound on the first graders for the rest of your life.