183 replies to this topic

[Amsro]

PythonCPT, on 31 March 2013 - 10:07 PM, said:

***** plz

a 50/50 win ratio does not mean you are getting equal/fair/fun matches or that ELO is working. All it means is you were forced into an artificial 50/50 win ratio, no matter whether you were good or bad.

For example, we'll pretend, lets say Player A has a 51% win ratio, he then gets steamrolled doing 500 damage in an 8-1 Loss. Then he has 49%, so the system matches up his team ELO and they steamroll the other team 8-0 win, he now has 51% again. The system then puts him on a team that gets the prison pounds for 8-0 loss. Now at 50% you hope for a super epic even match, but it doesnt happen because Player A's ELO rating eats up too much of the average ELO, and get paired with ppl who dont know their *** from their elbow and gets pounded to 49% where he awaits his turn to steamroll the other team.

New players should be separated into a que, and good players should not be punished by throwing the most terrible players online at the moment on their team. But i guess if you want a good experience should just join a merc corp, but i think the OP already covered that.

Just to reiterate.... %50 win ratio DOES NOT = fun/fair matches.

I was going to make a similar statement, isn't the current win/loss ratio of Elo just going to end up with all players at a 50% ratio, eventually grouping every skill level into one giant clump.

I still fail to see how this system can work.

[Caleb Lee]

Corwin Vickers, on 31 March 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

Except for every game that you lose the match maker will try to give you a winning game so not every game has your 3 friends and 4 *******. If you and your friends go on a losing streak there will be a corresponding winning streak, presumably by giving you and your 3 friends some better team mates.

If your win/loss is higher than 50% you will lose more often till it is 50% or at least the match maker will try to make you lose.


People who lost more than half the time before Elo was put it aren't complaining because they are probably winning half the time now.



And for those of you who think this is communism it's equivalent to you being 20 and in the first grade. They are going to keep moving you up in grades till you are challenged. You don't get to pound on the first graders for the rest of your life.

Not my experience so far... there are real and major issues with Elo.

As for the 20 in the first grade bullcrap comment. I would WELCOME having teammates with the same Elo range and the enemy team with the same as well.

That would be 50/50, this artificial place you against an average team and then handicap you with 4 of the worst players possible is a broken system.

As one other user posted, in a FPS I can carry the team with a few well placed shots. MWO is a whole other game and you can't carry the team as a 4 man even. Your odds go up, but you will lose in a 4vs8 with just average players on the other side working as a team.

I LIKE challenges, and hated the days when I had a 40-50 kill/death and something like 25 win/loss ratio. PUG stomping is NOT fun.

Elo is NOT fun... it's like we've swung to the opposite extreme.

Think about this... would you want to be the poor helpless beginner who gets lumped on my team? HECK no. Getting rolled 8v2 or something like that is NOT fun. They should be playing in their own category, not swinging back and forth violently.

[Yukichan]

I always find it funny how no matter the game so many people think they are in that top 2-3%. The 2-3% that actually are awesome at said game. Not realizing that the odds are on them being the 80-90% of average to just ok players.

[Caleb Lee]

Yukichan, on 31 March 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

I always find it funny how no matter the game so many people think they are in that top 2-3%. The 2-3% that actually are awesome at said game. Not realizing that the odds are on them being the 80-90% of average to just ok players.

Hey... I KNOW there are better players than me. I run into them. I doubt I'm in the top 2%, but pretty sure I'm in the top 10%.

Regardless of where I am... we're talking about the results of a broken Elo, how frustrating it is, and that it's NOT working. No matter what bracket I'm in, the results and how it handles matchmaking are as stated in earlier posts and apparently I'm not the only one noticing this.

It's just more noticeable the higher you are up the brackets and the better the team you are with is.

It's like playing for a professional sports team, but because your team has won a few times in a row they put Junior High/High School level players as half your team. Meanwhile, they pit you against this years favored championship team.

That way all pro teams have a 50/50 record, isn't that fair? Wouldn't be much fun to even watch as a spectator and I'm sure those poor kids would either be killed or seriously hurt and not want to play the sport again.

Why can't they simply keep the same level players instead of trying to fill out matchmaker in a horrible broken fashion.

As I said, 8v8 is fun now... 4 man or less is flat out horrible.

[Corwin Vickers]

50% of the population is below average by definition.

[Corwin Vickers]

By dropping with 3 other skilled guys you make it harder for the match maker to find skilled opponents for you to play against.

If it only had to balance for you you'd see a more even spread.

The ONLY alternative is to increase the queue timer but then you would have people complaining that they had to wait 15 minutes for a game. It would also greatly decrease the pool of players you would face (assuming you really are at the top of the bell curve.)


Why don't you stomp the pugs with your friends in TS yet lose the match. Then Elo will be happy since it doesn't care about kills or damage, only wins/losses.

[Khan Reaper]

If this is the case, isn't Elo working for the other team as well? Wouldn't they be getting half good players and half bad players? This is a serious question, I'm not trying to grief. If you are ranked high, say 1-1-1-1 and it throws you a 3-4-5-6 for team mates, doesn't the other team have the equivalant rankings? Perhaps you are thinking too little of your enemies? You're making it sound like if your team is "1-1-1-1-3-4-5-6" the other team is "1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2", but in the same breath saying that the other team is no good. How do you know? Someone further up in the thread said that your Elo is per weight class too. Is that true?

Edited by Khan Reaper, 01 April 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[Salticidae]

ELO is total crap and has been since day 1, they said it will fix its self the more people play and it just hasn't. 1 team either out weights the other by loads and wins the fight, or the other team has 4 lights and run for the cap with the other team not standing a chance on maps like dersert/peaks. most the drops I do are 4 man drops but the other 4 men on my team seem to do less then 100 and don't even target mechs. while I seem to be dropping against 2 premades all the time

[Corwin Vickers]

You have a seperate ranking for lights, mediums, heavies, and assaults.

So if you suck at light mechs and are awesome with assaults you should be facing harder players on your assault mechs.

All depends on your win/loss for the class

[Gargel]

Khan Reaper, on 01 April 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

If this is the case, isn't Elo working for the other team as well? Wouldn't they be getting half good players and half bad players? This is a serious question, I'm not trying to grief. If you are ranked high, say 1-1-1-1 and it throws you a 3-4-5-6 for team mates, doesn't the other team have the equivalant rankings? Perhaps you are thinking too little of your enemies? You're making it sound like if your team is "1-1-1-1-3-4-5-6" the other team is "1-1-1-1-1-1-1-2", but in the same breath saying that the other team is no good. How do you know? Someone further up in the thread said that your Elo is per weight class too. Is that true?

This I wondered throughout the thread as well. From what I can tell, the assumption made is that because he is dropping in a 4 man team, it is more difficult for the rating system to pair his team with equivalent opponents since, if we trust OPs numbers, they have an incredibly inflated "ELO"-rating, and this FORCES bad teammates and good opponents to reach a 50/50 win-loss.

ELO is per weight class. However if I understand it correctly, weight is not taken into account all that well when pairing players (If at all, i'm not entirely sure about this).

Edited by Gargel, 01 April 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[psihius]

I have to say I miss tonnage balance, running an Awesome these days is a pain. You just get atlases on the other side (or stalkers) and y'r just screwed most of the time.

[Naelobo]

Between the failure that is ELO and the lack of commitment from PGI to combat third party hacks, MWO is slowing bleeding to death. I would say the community is at it's lowest point right now. Some will return when new mechs pop and the ever constant promise of CW but too little too late for some. PGI, get your heads out of your butts, and spend more time getting this fixed instead of a cosmetic third person mode that 70% of the community voted against.

[Naelobo]

Gargel, on 01 April 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

ELO is per weight class. However if I understand it correctly, weight is not taken into account all that well when pairing players (If at all, i'm not entirely sure about this).

ELO is simple, aggregate score balance and a predictor that says you stand this much of a chance of losing the match. It can still match you up against a team that has a 90% chance of winning the match, they just get less ELO from the win, which is about as stupid a system as I could imagine, considering they are punishing a handful of players by putting them on a horrible team instead of putting two horrible teams against one another. And it is entirely based off of wins/losses.

[Exoth3rmic]

I'll be more than happy to comment on this thread once I see your play in action, or we can discuss your concerns privately.

It takes less than 5 mins to get a stream up and running and with tiny PC overheads these days so it won't impact your play if you're running at a quality that simply allows me to see your actual gameplay.

Here's how in 3 easy steps:

1 )Make an account on twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/),
2) Download open broadcaster @ http://obsproject.com/download
3) Follow the simple instructions here courtesy of PC Gamer

I look forward to seeing you in action!

Edit: Twitch saves your stream as a VOD, so we can watch it any time - you don't have to be there for the live stream.

Edited by Exoth3rmic, 01 April 2013 - 01:30 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Well, you've pretty much summed up why I mostly drop PUG, or with at most 2 other players these days.
As the number of people in your group increases, the balance of your games decreases.

On the plus side, PUGing is vastly improved, and 2-man teams are good as well, it's just 3-4mans that are getting crapped on unless they start rolling things like 4x atlas, or light wolfpacks.

[Onmyoudo]

I think it's very difficult to actually argue about Elo when the matchmaker it is inherently tied to is so blatantly screwing things up. I feel much the same way as OP does (though I drop solo) simply due to the crazy unfair tonnage matching that happens all the time. I have found some success sacrificing myself for the team win, but it doesn't really reward me and even then doesn't always help if there are a bunch of sub-100 damage guys on my team. Which also happens regularly.

[Yokaiko]

psihius, on 01 April 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

I have to say I miss tonnage balance, running an Awesome these days is a pain. You just get atlases on the other side (or stalkers) and y'r just screwed most of the time.

There was never a tonnage balance.....ever, weight matching was light, medium, heavy, and assualt.

That is why the Dragon and Awesome get a bad wrap, drive a Dragon, get a Phract, drive an Awesome get an Atlas. Hell in four mans we used to use Cicada's JUST to keep from spawning more ravens.

I'm with the OP ELO is crap, and I ALWAYS pugged more than I grouped. Participial after they launched phase three, I was 66th in the "data grap" tounrament, and that was with sleeping and going to work over the weekend. So if my ELO was inflated by grouping I'd be amazed.

After about a week it became a pure derp-a-thon.

Edited by Yokaiko, 01 April 2013 - 02:10 AM.

[Naelobo]

Ill say this. This matchmaking is almost identical to pre-Phase 1. So in my opinion, they did nothing, just reverted to pre-Phase 1 matchmaking again.

[Yokaiko]

Arkikim, on 01 April 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

Ill say this. This matchmaking is almost identical to pre-Phase 1. So in my opinion, they did nothing, just reverted to pre-Phase 1 matchmaking again.

Worse, pre-phase one you could at least talk to everyone on your team. We spent a lot of time getting other 8 mans and sync dropping against them. If you were running specific weight grouping you could almost always a match.

[Naelobo]

Yokaiko, on 01 April 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

Worse, pre-phase one you could at least talk to everyone on your team. We spent a lot of time getting other 8 mans and sync dropping against them. If you were running specific weight grouping you could almost always a match.

Yep like I said, almost