101 replies to this topic

[XtremWarrior]

tenderloving, on 04 April 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Medium mechs are either meant to be a jack-of-all-trades mech or they are built to carry ONE weapon from a larger weight class. The hunchback is a perfect example of "intended role." It wasn't meant to be a PPC carrier or a LLas carrier; there are other medium mechs that can do that. What the hunchback CAN do that most other mediums can't is carry an AC20, or 9 small laser weapons, or an LRM20 rack. In the OP's system, the Hunchback would be the standout mech for its intended roles. In the current system, there are very few differences between the 3 mediums we have right now, and they are so interchangeable we might as well just have a "50 Ton Mech" instead of "Centurion, Hunchback, and Trebuchet."

ok but what about optimisation?
somehow, i do believe that the weapon system need to have some small limitations, just because it feels strange to see ppc or gauss on a light Mech. But don't fool yourself, you will see even more identical Mechs than today, especially if those limitations give Mechs some kind of "intended role": all HBK 4P will then become the exact same brawlers, etc.
Fact is, there is a lot of Mechs and they can't all be completely different from every other ones, unless you keep the players from making their own loadout.

[PaladinXIII]

This issue is hard to take a side on, at least for me. I see the point of how certain builds cause for exploitation and was not what the devs intended for in the beginning. It cannot be denied that the Splatcat, PPC Stalker, LLas Hunchie, and other "click to win" mechs are easily seen as cheap, but it cannot be denied that they are effective at doing large, burst damage, and being able to do it while move at fast speeds. I personally feel that something needs to be done to fix this, but I don't know about making a tier hardpoint because on the other side of the coin, I like being able to swap out different weapons for damage or range, or being able to put a larger engine in, and being customize my mech to my choosing. For example here are 3 of my Stalker builds:
3F 5M 4N

They're not the best builds and I'm thinking of updating a few parts, but back to the point on this topic, I have swapped LRM10s for LRM15s and LRM20s, LLas for ER PPCs, etc. Under a tiered system, would I be able to keep the PPCs on my 3F or the LRM 20 on my 4N or the LRM15s on my 5M? I like my builds because it is what I created and while I consider them better than the stock variants; they aren't game-breaking builds. But would I be punished because someone else decided to put 6 PPCs on their Stalker, or what if someone swapped the two large lasers in the side torso for two medium lasers and then placed the two large lasers in the arms for (some what) better firing angles?

I think the issue with the hardpoints is trying to ensure that each variant is customizable, but can still be said to be different due to different hardpoints, and it has been forever since I played MW4 but if I remember right you had various weapons slots but you could not swap out different engines, so while you could make a Splatcat in MW4, it would not be effective because you would be targeted long-before you got in close enough to do damage. So I think the major villain here in MWO is ourselves. We have the choice to make any style of mech we want, and it can go as fast or as slow as we want, it can have a standard or xl engine, it can carry one type or more types of weapons depending on the hardpoints, and it can be gimped, balanced, or boated because it is up each persons choice on how they want to play, and some builds will show better strengths than others and in turn others wanting to earn c-bills or just simply win, will adopt these better builds.

I like the way this game allows for customization and choice, but with more customization and choice, comes exploitation, to quote this article and this video, exploitation is "not cheating, but not exactly playing the game either and it ruins the fun of the game".

I guess what it boils down to is that if we want to prevent some of these crazy builds, there are only a few choices I can think of. We can accept the limitation on choice and customization, we convince PGI to limit weapon load-outs for certain mechs, or we find away to convince PGI to remove those that choose to exploit, which will probably end in some sort of online witch hunt. Some of this seems harsh, but the more we nerf things to "balance" the game, someone is already busy working to tip the scales in their favor.

I apologize for the length of my post/thesis on "The crisis faced by the common MWO player", but I think I said my thoughts on this. Please be gentle when you reply to rip my head off.

Edited by PaladinXIII, 04 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.