34 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

LRM's only fly at 100kph. If your moving faster than that, Not a single missile will hit you.

As you approach that speed missiles have a hard time tracking and you will notice a significant fraction impact the ground. Its because of this that LRM's have only around a 30% hit rate.

LOL no.

Every light is the game is faster than 100KPH (or should be) they DO get hit just at a reduced rate.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yokaiko, on 01 April 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

LOL no.

Every light is the game is faster than 100KPH (or should be) they DO get hit just at a reduced rate.

And I'm asking, is that the intent? Or is it an issue with game mechanics?

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 01 April 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 01 April 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

And I'm asking, is that the intent? Or is it an issue with game mechanics?

Depends I've seen racks of LRMs running level with the ground chasing lights. You used to be able to juke them for a while, if you zagged at just the right time you could make a volley miss, they wouldn't track fast enough.

However, you can't flat outrun LRMs, ever.

[Vrekgar]

SkyCake, on 01 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

the nerfed damage isnt the issue right now... although they adjusted it to a level that they feel, and i as well, is right.... so even with fixes, lrm's are not likely to do more damage than they do today

THE ISSUE!!!! is against lights, barely any missiles hit and more often than not, missiles completely wiff altogether, despite having los, artemis, and tag all going for you... this is unacceptable, period!

First part: Then why are they the most space intensive weapon in the game for the least bang? If you relegate them to a position where you have to drop 500 missiles on a target to get a kill you only encourage the extremes, People will either boat them in huge quantities with many large launchers, or they wont take them at all. You already have so many negatives to using them that its just plain silly to have so little damage. This is why I encourage a complete redo of the entire missile system so we can from the ground up have a weapon that is designed for a role and sticks to it. There is a reason nobody uses LRM5, and hardly anyone uses a LRM10.

Second part: For a supposed noskill autohit instalkill weapon it surprisingly doesnt do hardly anything against lights. They have always been incredibly difficult targets to hit, perhaps HSR (Host state rewind) for missiles will improve the hit chances by negating the lag shield effect. LRM's even in the current nerfed (Under hotfix) configuration would be very nice Anti-Light weapons if they could just hit the target.

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

LRMs are not useless against light mechs. Even if they don't strike the target, they will force him to run or take cover. That is time when he is probably not shooting your team or doing anything else productive except outrunning your missiles.

LRM don't have to connect and to damage to have value. I fire them at enemies as a suppression / cover fire tactic, not so much to destroy enemies. If someone gets destroyed by LRMs then I got lucky.

First: If a light is going over 100kph they wont hit at all, no matter how the light is moving. All the competent light pilots just go fast all the time and avoid ever getting hit by LRM. The only times ive ever seen them be hit by them is when the light is incapacitated, a moron who stops in the open, or both.

Second: Yes they do. If they have no ability to hit and do damage then theres no point running away. People wont take cover if theres no threat of getting killed. This is why you hardly see AMS anymore, because nobody is using missiles to trigger it, and nobody needs to mount it to survive. They added mounts for it to every mech when most mechs did not have it in cannon. ECM also provides an impressive shield that makes LRM less than useless, it becomes a sucking burden on your mech thats wasted tonnage and space that could be used for something more useful.

[jeffsw6]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

First: If a light is going over 100kph they wont hit at all, no matter how the light is moving.

That is a lie. I just spent a match in the crater map doing nothing but letting enemies shoot LRMs at me and trying to out-run them. I was in a CDA-X5 that goes 130K. I got hit by many missiles and did not live long.

Did you think if you repeated that lie a few times it would become true? Why don't you make your argument based on things that are actually true?

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

People wont take cover if theres no threat of getting killed. This is why you hardly see AMS anymore, because nobody is using missiles to trigger it, and nobody needs to mount it to survive.

You see less AMS because there are less LRM boats now. The fact that it became essential to survive meant that LRMs were over-used and over-powered. Even if you had AMS it wasn't going to shoot down big salvos, which is exactly why people install huge numbers of LRM launchers.

LRM boating was not adding fun to the game, it was reducing it. Join a PUG, wait 3 minutes to see how many teammates ran out of patience and died to LRM storm before the opponents ran out of missiles or patience. Hope you still have enough team remaining to finally charge the enemy and kill them.

Your argument is complete garbage. If you want people to buy into your opinion, then stop telling lies, and provide some reasonable, truthful opinions or facts to support your position.

[Smk]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

LRMs are not useless against light mechs. Even if they don't strike the target, they will force him to run or take cover. That is time when he is probably not shooting your team or doing anything else productive except outrunning your missiles.

LRM don't have to connect and to damage to have value. I fire them at enemies as a suppression / cover fire tactic, not so much to destroy enemies. If someone gets destroyed by LRMs then I got lucky.

It's not like the light mech is going to be standing still anyways. They don't even pay attention to the warning and just keep doing what they're doing.

[Kurogawa]

hello all, i have always been a missile boat and i love it, doh ATM all my lrm buils are gathering dust in my mechbay since i need an apocalyptical amount of missiles to make actual damage. i agree that lrm hit rate is off. shoting an small fast mech is pretty much a waste of ammo now even with artemis + tag. my missiles needs help asap. my 2x raven makes the same amount of dmg at the end of the round with 4mpl's that my stalker with 4 lrm20+artemis + tag with 6 tons of ammo. that does not feels right. its like if someone stuffed my missiles with cotton insteand of high explosives.

cheers.

[Vrekgar]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

That is a lie. I just spent a match in the crater map doing nothing but letting enemies shoot LRMs at me and trying to out-run them. I was in a CDA-X5 that goes 130K. I got hit by many missiles and did not live long.

So you admit your a terrible player who intentialy plays bad by not helping your team or playing the ******* objective? Wow, What a start to an argument. Also you provide no proof or facts to substantiate your argument.

So right out the gate your either a terrible player who deserves a ban because you intentionally suicide in a match or your a Liar.

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Did you think if you repeated that lie a few times it would become true? Why don't you make your argument based on things that are actually true?

Says the self addressed bad player who tanks is team by intentionally committing suicide, or a Liar.

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You see less AMS because there are less LRM boats now. The fact that it became essential to survive meant that LRMs were over-used and over-powered. Even if you had AMS it wasn't going to shoot down big salvos, which is exactly why people install huge numbers of LRM launchers.

Correct. Someone who can actually read and understand a situation.

They were never essential to survive because they could not in fact save you anyway.

They were used just as often as any other weapon, Except probably Machine guns and Flamers. Its truly pathetic that in the last 2 weeks ive seen more Flamers than LRM's.

Big salvos was the counter that occured because people mounted so many AMS. A group of players rolling in a ball with AMS will negate a very large amount of LRM's. The only solution was to mount as many launchers as possible and throw as many missiles per launch down range.

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LRM boating was not adding fun to the game, it was reducing it. Join a PUG, wait 3 minutes to see how many teammates ran out of patience and died to LRM storm before the opponents ran out of missiles or patience. Hope you still have enough team remaining to finally charge the enemy and kill them.

Wow, the bad player giving advice on whats fun or not. You could also be a Liar as well.

LRM's added no more fun than an AC20 or any other weapon. No weapon "Adds fun" period. Neither do they reduce it. It was a weapon that forced bad players to learn the hard way how to use and recognize cover. Not everyone will like this because its a harsh reality check. You should not be able to charge over open ground to "Brawl" without being engaged by some kind of long range fire. Look at now, people are complaining in droves about high Alpha strike builds and snipers who kill them across the map. People will always complain about their deaths because it forces them to learn something.

This game is not meant to be played Solo in the presence of groups. There is a lack of in game communications tools but there are a DERTH of 3rd party tools that are used by the majority of players.

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Your argument is complete garbage. If you want people to buy into your opinion, then stop telling lies, and provide some reasonable, truthful opinions or facts to support your position.

Your a bad player who intentionally suicides by your own admission. I want people to take everything we say with a grain of salt and filter it through their own experiences.

Stop being a Suicidal Liar who screws their team over, or just stop being a Liar.

[ShadowbaneX]

BlackBeltJones, on 01 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

DO NOT EXPECT LRM's TO HIT SMALL, FAST MECHS ALL THE TIME.

We don't expect them to hit all the time, we'd just like them to hit some of the time. From my personal experience you have to be 400-600 meters to do well with LRMs...which isn't exactly "Long Range".

[SkyCake]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

LRMs are not useless against light mechs. Even if they don't strike the target, they will force him to run or take cover. That is time when he is probably not shooting your team or doing anything else productive except outrunning your missiles.

LRM don't have to connect and to damage to have value. I fire them at enemies as a suppression / cover fire tactic, not so much to destroy enemies. If someone gets destroyed by LRMs then I got lucky.

wrong... in nearly all instances, the mechs i was firing at made no effort to dodge my missiles.... they just kept on happily battling other mechs, they didnt miss a beat...

MN03, on 01 April 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Good pilots always stay in motion when piloting a light mech. A light mech standing still is a dead mech.

I just had a brilliant idea (Oh man, I sometimes love myself *cough*). Here it comes... Why not give LRMs splash damage when it hits the ground (something like 10 meters splash, reduced damage of course the farther away the missile lands). This will:
1) Missiles which barely missed mechs still do damage (hints at light mechs)
2) Makes dumb-firing LRMs a better option (against ECM for example).

all your doing is making LRMs OP versus anything that moves slower than 100kph... which was the problem they were attempting to deal with... and doing sweet FA to help LRMs versus faster mechs... think before you post

lorrylemming, on 01 April 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

Along the lines of this I think that LRMs should fire straight out of the mech, making dumb firing easier. Why do they decide to just pile into the ground?

this would be nice as well, if we could get faster missiles, would be viable for dealing with ECM

BlackBeltJones, on 01 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

DO NOT EXPECT LRM's TO HIT SMALL, FAST MECHS ALL THE TIME.

did you read the pos... im just gonna stop there cause you obviously did not!!!!

25-50% WAS WHAT I SUGGESTED!!!!

[jeffsw6]

Vrekgar, on 01 April 2013 - 01:39 PM, said:

So you admit your a terrible player who intentialy plays bad by not helping your team or playing the ******* objective?

Go make your own mech that can run 100K and do the same thing. You obviously didn't before you made the claim that missiles cannot hit a target that moves faster than 100K.

It's a beta game. There is nothing wrong with using a match to discover how the game mechanics work. It took me 1 match to verify that your claim is a total lie.

Rather than make a more reasonable argument to support your position, you just call names and accuse someone of being a bad player for disproving your statement.

QQ some more. Post some more lies. Next you'll be saying that lights can out-run lasers.

[NinetyProof]

SkyCake, on 01 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

the nerfed damage isnt the issue right now... although they adjusted it to a level that they feel, and i as well, is right.... so even with fixes, lrm's are not likely to do more damage than they do today

THE ISSUE!!!! is against lights, barely any missiles hit and more often than not, missiles completely wiff altogether, despite having los, artemis, and tag all going for you... this is unacceptable, period!

Actually it is the issue. The code needs to be cleaned, and they might be doing it right now. This include the "rewind state" that lasers just went through. Missle missing and hitting the ground could just be a rewind issue, and it makes more sense when you throw in the context of "fast movers", which is exactly what rewind fix did for lasers.

They *are* looking at the code, and the code *is* the problem. How much they are going to fix and how soon depends upon many factors. Being a programmer by trade, I know fixing bad code can get hairy fast. Then again, it might not be "bad code", it just might be "incomplete" code that never got fully developed.

At least we know that THEY know there is a problem ... and we know that they know that we know there are problems they know about. What we don't know is when they know, or think, the problem will be resolved. Hopefully when they know, we will know shortly after ... you know?

[Moonsavage]

It's the angle the LRMs come in at - for long-distance shots, they come in vertically and cannot steer quickly enough to hit a 150km mech. For shorter distance shots, they connect a lot more reliably, but cannot track lateral movement, so miss cause of that.
It's a tough one for PGI as if they make them connect any better, they will be all headshot and no damage spread.

[Ph30nix]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

Go make your own mech that can run 100K and do the same thing. You obviously didn't before you made the claim that missiles cannot hit a target that moves faster than 100K.

It's a beta game. There is nothing wrong with using a match to discover how the game mechanics work. It took me 1 match to verify that your claim is a total lie.

Rather than make a more reasonable argument to support your position, you just call names and accuse someone of being a bad player for disproving your statement.

QQ some more. Post some more lies. Next you'll be saying that lights can out-run lasers.

i have a light mech if im moving i dont get hit. But frankly i rarely get hit by missles in any of my mechs unless i do something stupid its called using cover. Your situation you were probably running face first into the missles instead of running away from them

Also
"LRM boating was not adding fun to the game, it was reducing it. Join a PUG, wait 3 minutes to see how many teammates ran out of patience and died to LRM storm before the opponents ran out of missiles or patience. Hope you still have enough team remaining to finally charge the enemy and kill them."

thats your problem, not the LRM"s if your dumb enough to shove your face into oncoming missles thats your problem (or theirs in this case) if instead of LMR"s if it was an equal # of gauss salvo's would you still be complaining?''

also AMS was never ment to STOP MISSLES COLD which actualy an LRM5 you could kill all 5 missles before they hit you IF you were backing away from them at about 40kph thats gives the AMS enough time to take them all out. Anything larger than that it is only ment to reduce the damage you recieve OR if there are multiple AMS systems near by THEN they can stop missle salvos cold. Saw this in action once must have been a premade group but 5 people on my team (one being me) has AMS equiped and we happened to be in a tight ball, had a few LRM boats on other team and we didnt get hit by one missle. Im sure this was a best case scenerio (they didnt all fire at once, they staggered their firing etc etc) but its possible.

anyways getting off topic.

Currently Missles are made even more useless an ineffective due to Missle travel time, You cant even get an Acurate DPS for missles because it varies so much depending on travel time ive counted at least a 5 second travel time on some occasions and add in avg of 4 second recycle time for LRM's that could be up to 9 seconds for less then 1 damage per missle.... (where on average only 30% of the missles hit) so for an LRM 20 thats a whopping 1.5 DPS per second which is lower then just about everything else in the game, oh and that # assumes 100% hit rate, at the 30% avg its more like .45 dps.... (note the MG is ,4 dps)
i know this is extremes and all, but nothing seems to to take missle travel time into account when it comes to damage and DPS....

[Vrekgar]

jeffsw6, on 01 April 2013 - 03:19 PM, said:

It's a beta game. There is nothing wrong with using a match to discover how the game mechanics work.

There is plenty wrong with it. Your intentionally suiciding. Attaching the label that "Its a Beta. I can do anything I want and be a complete moron" is not a defense. For all anyone knows you didnt move at all and just stood there.

Your also not providing any evidence that any missile actually hit you. There have been several people here who have played fast mechs and agree that missiles are failing to impact them. With the preponderance of direct fire high alpha builds and some truly stupendous snipers out there, Idd wager you got killed by them if you even ran a match at all.

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Rather than make a more reasonable argument to support your position, you just call names and accuse someone of being a bad player for disproving your statement.

I didnt have too. You said it yourself that you ran in without firing weapons and LET THEM KILL YOU. This is not the play style of someone who is inteligent. It is not the play style of anyone this community should support. It is the play style of a selfish moron who could not provide any evidence of his deeds.

So you are either a bad player who suicides on purpose to the detriment of his team, or a flat out Liar. Spin those lies some more.

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QQ some more. Post some more lies. Next you'll be saying that lights can out-run lasers.

*Sigh*

This just shows your temperament and knowledge even more. Until Host state rewind it was more an art to hit lights with lasers than anything else. Which meant that frequently Lights COULD.

And now for something completely different.