34 replies to this topic

[Skyraxx]

I feel like this would help improve the balance of the game. This way light mechs, and other fast movers actually have a chance to harass poptarts.

[dal10]

ppcs still ecm at minimum range. and there would be no real use for ERs over normal ppcs if they did have a minimum range.

[Durant Carlyle]

Negatory on the minimum range for ER PPCs. That's the whole point of an ER PPC -- a wider firing envelope.

[blinkin]

Skyraxx, on 01 April 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

I feel like this would help improve the balance of the game. This way light mechs, and other fast movers actually have a chance to harass poptarts.

wut? since when have ERPPC been a threat to light mechs? if ERPPC were a concern then every ballistic weapon would also be a problem.

heavy mechs should be damned proud when they manage to hit a moving light mech with a PPC.

[Tyrist]

The "ER"ppc is for extended range not for minimum range. The emp effect should still apply whether or not its an ER or a standard range ppc.

[SJet]

I agree with this 100%, I always thought that the "ER" in ER PPC is extended range, they are not made to fire short range, that is why they have over 50% longer range over the standard PPC, if anything I think that there should be a steeper penalty for using them at close range.

[Markis Steiner]

I kind of agree on the idea of ERPPC having a minimum range. The only real downside to taking a ER over a normal PPC is a increase in heat buildup. This can easily be negated with Coolant Flush consumables and proper firing discipline. It seems like there should be a bit more of a trade off with the massive range increase gained. As of right now there really is no reason why someone should not take ER over normal PPC.

[Terror Teddy]

Except that the ER PPC that they based the fricking gun FROM did not HAVE the minimum range.

Quote

First introduced in 2760 by the Terran Hegemony, the Extended-Range Particle Projector Cannon, or ER PPC for short, has a greatly increased range than that of a standard PPC. Capable of causing extreme damage at long range, it unfortunately generates a tremendous amount of heat, and so can be difficult to use effectively. The ER PPC is also noticable for having no minimal range.

http://www.sarna.net...rojector_Cannon

I have no problem with people wanting to BALANCE a gun but lets not bastardise them in order for them to be "balanced" or in some cases try to invent a NEW weapon just because there is a lack of choices (like wanting an AC/1 instead of balancing the MG as a viable choice.)

Edited by Terror Teddy, 01 April 2013 - 10:21 PM.

[PanzerMagier]

wow, absolutely disgusting. Light mech pilots QQ'ng about er ppcs now????! This is rediculous, "oh my gawd someone hit me with one of the hardest-to-aim weapons in game and I am the fastest/smallest mech, please it takes so much more skill than me so nerf it!"...

It's canon for the er ppc to have no minimum range. but we've all seen pgi chuck that out of the window.
So let's look at the other reasons why Er ppc SHOULDN'T get a nerf.

A) They're already heat cumbersome, I guess light mech pilots wouldn't know that it takes a lot of fire discipline to manage them.
B ) They're hard to aim, much like all ballistics, if you're a scout and you get hit by ballistic weapons then you're not being a really good light mech pilot (that or the shooting pilot is a great shot and deserves to nail your tiny **** with an ac20 slug/ppc shot).
C)Light mechs are horribly overpowered at the moment, you're saying you want to make them even more overpowered?

No, erppc's should not be nerfed. Why? because if you nerf that into the ground then you might as well start nerfing ac cannons and lasers and go just make some arbitrary changes to just screw over the entire game and you know what, then you can just chuck away the whole off-set game. Since it will be ruined.

Edited by PanzerMagier, 02 April 2013 - 02:24 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Generally speaken:
Yes I think a ER-PPC should have a minimum range.

But not because of they are poptarting light mech hunters...simple because of taste. I used them. I use them and I will use them with any buff or nerf a human brain is able to develop. Simple because i like the name "Defiance 1001 Extrem Range Particle Projector Cannon" simple because i like the effect, i like the sound a i like the look...even when they have nerfed the look with increasing the velocity.....

[Neolisk]

Tyrist, on 01 April 2013 - 08:18 PM, said:

The "ER"ppc is for extended range not for minimum range. The emp effect should still apply whether or not its an ER or a standard range ppc.

Extended range does not mean only the upper bound is extended - please take that into account.

[Belorion]

Giving it a minimum range turns it into...

a ppc.

[Tyrist]

Neolisk, on 02 April 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

Extended range does not mean only the upper bound is extended - please take that into account.

You do have a point with this, but on the same note it is still a PPC. There is an emp effect. If there isn't going to be a minimum range then there needs to be repercussions for using it at ranges under 90 m. The standard PPC has a damage fall off when you get to 90 meters and closer due to the emp effect so that your mech doesn't feel that effect. If the ER version isn't going to have a minimum range then the firing mech needs to share in the resulting emp. This will keep the ER version at strength and also make one think about what they are using as far as ECMs and other electronics that will be effected.

[UberFubarius]

I've to say no.
ERPPC is already balanced against PPC in that ERPPC is hot as hell.

[DarkJaguar]

Anyone QQing about a weapon being too powerful against lights needs to step off. Lights absolutely should get demolished if they ever fight a heavy or assault by themselves. As it is right now, 1v1 a light mech has a very high probability of winning based on their difficulty to be hit and their ability to just stay behind their opponent.

ER (extended range means the range envelope is extended, not the maximum range) PPCs are fine, leave them alone.

[Skyraxx]

It's not really a challenge to hit someone with a PPC, even a light at close range. Giving ER PPC's a min range would help balance the game more and encourage a little more variety in builds encountered.

There needs to actually be a tradeoff for just carrying long range weapons that deliver damage instantaneously, and that would be in a close range fight. The heat isn't really enough of a trade off. Gauss for example have a very long recycle time, and if they get destroyed they explode.

Exploding ER PPC's might be an option too. Although I prefer just giving them a min range.

[CutterWolf]

Skyraxx, on 02 April 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

It's not really a challenge to hit someone with a PPC, even a light at close range. Giving ER PPC's a min range would help balance the game more and encourage a little more variety in builds encountered.

There needs to actually be a tradeoff for just carrying long range weapons that deliver damage instantaneously, and that would be in a close range fight. The heat isn't really enough of a trade off. Gauss for example have a very long recycle time, and if they get destroyed they explode.

Exploding ER PPC's might be an option too. Although I prefer just giving them a min range.

What are you smoking?? Really? Help game balance?? This would do the complete opposite and encourage "less" variety in builds. Do you guys even think about what your asking for before you ask? Try looking at the BIG picture in the balance game first. "If" ERPPC's were so damm good at short range I would have god like KDR but they are not because of two things. 1. They are not easy to hit with. and 2. They still have a damage bug.

This is one weapon that PGI got right:

Description

First introduced in 2760 by the Terran Hegemony, the Extended-Range Particle Projector Cannon, or ER PPC for short, has a greatly increased range than that of a standard PPC. Capable of causing extreme damage at long range, it unfortunately generates a tremendous amount of heat, and so can be difficult to use effectively. The ER PPC is also noticable for having no minimal range.

Description

The Particle Projector Cannon (or PPC) is a unique energy weapon. PPCs fire a concentrated stream of protons or ions at a target, causing damage through both thermal and kinetic energy. As such, despite being an energy weapon, it produces recoil. The lethality of the weapon rivals that of a higher-caliber autocannon; just three shots from a PPC will vaporize two tons of standard military-grade armor. Targets hit by multiple, simultaneous PPCs can also suffer electrical side-effects, such as overloaded computer systems or targeting sensors. The ion beam also extends to much farther ranges than autocannon fire, though PPCs generate large amounts of waste heat.
PPCs are equipped with a Field Inhibitor to prevent feedback which could damage the firing unit's electronic systems. This inhibitor degrades the performance of the weapon at close ranges of less than 90 meters. Particularly daring warriors have been known to disengage the inhibitor and risk damage to their own machine when a target is at close range. First introduced in 2450

As you can see the PPC has an inhibitor which the ERPPC does not. The ERPPC uses much more advanced equipment than the PPC which allows it to use no inhibitor without any risk of feedback. Thus allowing the ERPPC to not have any min range and to greatly enhance its long range ability.

Edited by CutterWolf, 02 April 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Skyraxx]

Well, sometimes cannon needs to be adjusted to make the game more balanced.

I'm not sure why you say PPC's are hard to aim, they're really easy to hit a target with. You only need to lead at the really far ranges and they travel at almost double the speed of a gauss round.

I don't notice anyone who has a hard time hitting someone with PPC's, but I'm not sure what it's like in the lower ELO matches, so that might be what you're talking about.

Unless you're trolling, a light or fast moving medium can't carry long range weapons. They're more or less brawlers who's survivability depends on being hard to hit. A poptart can kill them in one or two shots at close range because they're weapons deal damage instantaneously and don't require much skill or effort to hit a target. Giving them a min range would definitely balance things out.

[Country Gravy]

I agree the ERPPC needs to be changed. The ERPPC needs to have its damage increased and be able to lock on to light mechs. This would balance the game way more than nerfing it ever would.

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Country Gravy, on 02 April 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

I agree the ERPPC needs to be changed. The ERPPC needs to have its damage increased and be able to lock on to light mechs. This would balance the game way more than nerfing it ever would.

I'd agree (while laughing) that you're trolling.

Joking aside, the ER PPC is fine.
Yes, poptarts are annoying.

Here's a hint:
Run AWAY from them; don't engage them in a light. Don't engage them from the front. If you need to fight them, attack from behind, then run away and get under cover.