42 replies to this topic

[Jungle Rhino]

This is something that has been bugging me for a while - there is a massive difference between a 'green' mech with no pilot skills and a fully matered mech.

Ok so maybe that should be true but here is the problem. All the mechs feel the same once you have doubled up all the acceleration/deceleration/turning stats. You can stop on a dime, twist anywhere almost instantly. It is a bit over the top and completely overwhelms the mech 'tweaking' they are currently trying to implement.

I think a great place to start would be to halve the effect of all pilot skills. (I'd get rid of them entirely but everyone loves a grind!)

Also I think that some of the skills need to be removed entirely:
> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now as Ravens go the same speed as Spiders while Atlas's go at 65kmph (that is how fast most mediums/heavies ought to be going!). Mechs just go way too fast. Get rid of it.

> Heat dissapation & Heat Capacity - these are too closely linked to the heat balancing mechanics and should be removed for that reason. Or at least drastically toned down. Currently ALL mechs take a 250 engine, minimum, with 10 DHS in it. Coupled with the pilot skills you can run hot weapons all day long without ever having to fit any additional heat sinks. Lights are the worst offenders here and thanks to these pilot skills they don't have to fit any additonal heat sinks which makes fitting the mech out trivial and cookie cutter.

[Karl Streiger]

I second that.
Speed Tweak...what is that? I can overload the acctuators and fusion engine...permanently without costs?

It may be a good idea to keep the idea...for later...instead of Speed Tweak call it Sprint...now your Mech is able to run for a short period longer...but shooting your weapons would not be possible...so - sprint for cover... allready known from different FPS.

Heat System need really a buff...how should it work? Better Coolant? Overritten heat protocolls in the Mechs computer security systems. Would hardly be possible...because your Mech is more important as the meet that controlls it.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 02 April 2013 - 04:34 AM.

[Mechteric]

Pilot Skill (Actual) appears to be missing in your thesis about Pilot Skill (XP).

Also your other arguments don't seem to be linked with your original grievance. For instance the issue of light mech top speed (yes I agree a Raven should not be as fast as a Spider) is a completely separate topic from Pilot Skill (Actual or XP).

The argument on heat as well is a separate topic (yes I kinda think the heat capacity should be adjusted and balanced with heat dissipation) but it also has nothing to do with either Pilot Skill (Actual or XP).


Having been through several mech's Eliting now I can say that while the benefits of Pilot Skills (XP) are really nice to have, they are no substitute for Pilot Skill (Actual).

[Dasein]

Jungle Rhino, on 02 April 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

Also I think that some of the skills need to be removed entirely:
> Speed Tweak - this is breaking the game right now as Ravens go the same speed as Spiders while Atlas's go at 65kmph (that is how fast most mediums/heavies ought to be going!). Mechs just go way too fast. Get rid of it.

Are you lack of common sense? If you remove speed tweak raven would be still as fast as spider, they just both will be slower.

[Deathlike]

The only suggestion I have for the most part is that the basic skill bonuses need to be buffed by 33%, and the doubling of the basic bonuses through elite mastery should be nerfed to a 50% bonus. The math adds up in the end, but makes the basic skills a lot more bearable while grinding to elite+master.

The real problem however is that most mechs seem "less functional" without the basic bonuses.. which is a different issue altogether. Stuff that we can't live without (coolrun and heat containment) are mixed in with stuff that tends to have an influence (torso twist speed, acceleration and deceleration) makes a genuine difference. This in part makes a lot of the trial mechs seem very "sluggish" compared to their mastered counterparts.

[Scratx]

I don't think the (XP) pilot skills are overwhelming. They're useful, yes, and speed tweak in particular is very noticeable. But it's far from a game winner.

I find that player (non-XP) skill is a far more important factor...

[RoboPatton]

So the skills change things, but it's an incentive to "master" a certain mech. So be it. Sure, even if halfed the "buffs" would still give you an edge, but if you go through the grind, there should be some reward.

Really the larger issue is why can a Raven run as fast as a Spider? Some of the lights need a second look, Raven being the most op.

[Maxx Blue]

I'd be OK if speed tweak disappeared or got nerfed. I certainly make use of it, but on the lights and some of the mediums that percentage increase translates into a pretty big KPH increase. On an Atlas you just go from unbearably slow to ponderously slow, so it's less of an issue! Maybe change it from a percentage to a flat +5KPH or something, so it doesn't benefit the already speedy mechs as much.

The heat management skills I find to be downright crucial, and I've actually bought them a couple times with GXP just so I didn't have to suffer through a half dozen games without them. If they went away as part of a greater heat revamp, ok, but those two skills make a huge difference, especially once you unlock faster fire rate later on.

The other stuff like convergence, arm movement, accel/decel, etc. I don't think are problematic. They mostly don't feel like they expand the performance envelope of a mech, just improve response time. That seems like a reasonable representation of what might happen as a pilot is 'learning' a mech and getting better at piloting it over time. Torso twist doesn't make tons of sense, but since I'm still bitter that I can't 360 my Cat's torso it just feels like a consolation prize! Also, I don't feel like the increased torso twist really transforms any particular mech, but that is just an opinion.

TL;DR - The two heat management skill and speed tweak make a big difference, but the others don't seem like a big deal to me.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 02 April 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[BillyM]

I agree fully with this suggestion. "Elite'd Out" mechs' outclass non-elite'd by such a large margin, it's not even funny. Fine for me, not fine for those I try to get to play the game. I have two PC's and spent some time leveling some mechs on a second account so when others come over they aren't wondering why I stuck them with the crap. "Why can you alpha 5 times vs my 3?" "Why do you run/turn so much faster than me?"

Honestly, it would still be worth leveling mechs if the results were halved.

I also like the idea of speedtweak being +5kph vs a %...

--billyM

[Skunk Wolf]

Elite'd out mechs are game winners. Hands down they will beat the tar out of somebody in the same mech without any ranks. PGI has bigger fish to fry. Like how every module sucks compared to ECM any way you look at it.

Every.
Single.
One.

[Zyllos]

I hope the Mech Skills system will be totally revamped with an included Pilot Skills system.

I would introduce a Mech Skills and Pilot Skills Equip system. Basic skills take 1 skill slot to equip, Elite skills take 2 skill slots to equip, and the Master skill takes 3 skill slots to equip.

All mechs have 8 skill slots to equip with. Getting Elite doubles the Basic skill values while getting Master doubles the Elite skill values.

The Pilot Skills would be applied to all mechs. Each Pilot has only 5 skill slots. The skills cost the same number of skill slots to equip.

What this does is allow players to further customize their mechs instead of not seeing their full potential unless you have all your skills mastered. You could equip an extra module slot for a mech, or equip all four Elite skills, or equip 8 of the 10 Basic skills, or mix and match. Then add some Pilot related skills. Pilot skills would center around weapons and equipment, most likely. It's based on the idea that your pilot likes utilizing some type of configurations, no matter the type of mech your playing. Unless, of course, your mech just doesn't allow those types of weapons/equipment.

This is where I hope the whole XP System heads to. Instead of just being a pool to grind, it's something you work torwards and make choices to modify the mech.

[Jungle Rhino]

Dasein, on 02 April 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

Are you lack of common sense? If you remove speed tweak raven would be still as fast as spider, they just both will be slower.

Sorry posed this in a hurry will spell it out.

Spider is currently capped at a 255 it ought to be able to fit a larger engine and go faster than 137kmph prior to speed tweak. So if speed tweak was removed it gives the devs an extra 14kmph to stretch out the fastest mechs (flea/spider) over the raven.

[efryt]

IMO pilot skills should be totally reworked.the reasons are:

• it is too much difference between having or not having particular skill. I would like to see some progress of skill. example taken from current skills. KINETIC BURST: assume there is maximal level for this skill - 10th. at the 10th level skill is giving total 22.5% to acceleration. each level would add 1/10 ( 2.25% ) to total value but cost of next level would be greater. lets say: 1st lvl 1000 xp, 2nd lvl 2000 xp, 3rd lvl 4000 xp... and so on... it would meen that first levels are learned easily and next ones would need more time to master.
  
• probably skills should be boosted with each variant unlocked ( currenlty you have to unlock all 3 variant to benefit. unlocking 2 variants give nothing... I would rather to see that each variant gives small bonus than 2x basic skills on expert as it is now. it would work like this. KINETIC BURST: affected mech variant A assumed that variant B has mastered KB at level 3rd. skill_value_from_variant_A * ( 100% + 50% * lvl_variant_B / 10 + 25% * lvl_variant_C / 10 ). It would give maximum 75% to variant A skill if you would have variant B and C completly unlocked. Of course for B and C would be taken variants with highest skills.
  
• each mech class should have different skill tree. now it ends up with all mech have same profits and we cannot see a difference between skilled mech of light class and assualt class. we can see only difference between "green" and seasoned mechs. i would see it like this, lights skills should focus on speed, maneuverability, detection, hiding. On the opposite side assualt should be able to focus their weapons on target. Some skills should be shared ( also with different values for each class, KINETIC BURST in case of light would give 20% and in case of assaults only 10% ). Perhaps some mech would have some unique skills like "operating bays" (for cats and stalkers - speeding openin/closing bays )

I know that skills are not most importent thing right now. There are many much more urgent.

But i would vote YES if there will be new skill system in the future. even if I have to start mech mastering from point '0'.

Edited by efryt, 21 July 2013 - 03:29 AM.

[stjobe]

Go read what the devs originally intended for the pilot skills: Dev Blog 4: Role Warfare (cont.).

Now weep for the sorry excuse for a substitute we currently have and join me in asking the devs to stop implementing what they've perverted the XP system to be and to start implementing their original, much better, ideas.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The whole concept of "doubling" the basic skills when you reached elite was a bad idea to begin with.

And I agree with St. Jobe, PGI should just declare the current skills a place holder, and once UI2.0 and CW are out go back and put in their original plans.

Duck with an F UI2.0 by the way, it's holding EVERYTHING up. It's literally making me hate it because it's messing up the game waiting for it.

[soarra]

stjobe, on 21 July 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

Go read what the devs originally intended for the pilot skills: Dev Blog 4: Role Warfare (cont.).

Now weep for the sorry excuse for a substitute we currently have and join me in asking the devs to stop implementing what they've perverted the XP system to be and to start implementing their original, much better, ideas.

Amen

[Qrbaza]

Thats why its Elited dont you think? Its logical something elited is much better than something basic. ROFL. You people cry about everything. If you dont have mastered mech go master it you will have bonus like everyone else... Omg

[soarra]

Qrbaza, on 21 July 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Thats why its Elited dont you think? Its logical something elited is much better than something basic. ROFL. You people cry about everything. If you dont have mastered mech go master it you will have bonus like everyone else... Omg

thats not the problem, its easy to master mechs. The whole pilot tree they have now are just dumb.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Qrbaza, on 21 July 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

Thats why its Elited dont you think? Its logical something elited is much better than something basic. ROFL. You people cry about everything. If you dont have mastered mech go master it you will have bonus like everyone else... Omg

We cry about poorly thought out mechanics. Go read Stjobe's link to understand what skills SHOULD look like in this game.

We cry because there were so many great ideas planned out, and we ended up with crap by comparison.

[SmoothCriminal]

I Like it. I buy a variant, level it up and gain 21k extra XP and get 5-6-7M reserved. Then when I basic all 3, I can instantly elite 2 of the mechs. It also forces less well meta'd variants to be seen on the field (raven 2/4x anyone?).

Other than that it's just a long hard credit grind to the next variant/module. Yawn. So just go master your mechs, instead of whining about other people who have taken the time to do theirs.

Edited by SmoothCriminal, 21 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.